How would you respond to this "Christianity being persecuted" e-mail?

[robbob]

I looked around the GD forum but couldn't find anyone else who had received this e-mail. It comes from a Christian lady who I actually quite like and have to work with, and I DID check it out on scoopes.com; it really DID happen, but it almost seems like too much trouble to try and point out all the historical and constitutional issues that make this a non-controversy. As far as I'm concerned, if people want to pray to an invisible sky-diety let 'em.

Anyway, your thoughts?

the offending e-mail:


At a Tennessee Football Game---not a joke
Christianity is now the target of persecution...
THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS! GOD BLESS EVERYONE WHO READS THIS AND PASSES IT ON.

I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT A HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL CAN SEE THE PROBLEM, BUT OUR SOCIETY CANNOT.

Tennessee Football
This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at Roane County High School , Kingston , Tennessee by school Principal, Jody McLeod

"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country."

Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate life style," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable" Means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem...

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology.."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depicts people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it "enlightenment.."

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor GOD and to ask HIM to Bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated.

This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical.
Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except GOD and HIS Commandments.

Nevertheless , as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical. I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time.

" However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank GOD and ask HIM, in the name of JESUS, to Bless this event, please feel free to do so.. As far as I know, that's not against the law--yet."

One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!

The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America- the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, under GOD."

Somehow, Kingston , Tennessee Remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM ReligionPraise GOD that HIS remnant remains!

JESUS said, "If you are ashamed of ME before men, then I will be ashamed of you before MY FATHER.."

If you are not ashamed, pass this on ..

I'm not one bit ashamed to pass this on, Are you?

THIS IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS! GOD BLESS EVERYONE WHO READS THIS AND PASSES IT ON.

--

[Scootaloo]

1. My response?

"yeah, but who won the game, home or visitors?"

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

6. Seriously....

It a god-damned football game. You want to pray? The church is just up the street.

[Scootaloo]

11. Well, a story starts out about a high school football game...

I don't give a shit if the spectators prayed, and the players prayed, and the coaches praye, and the orangutans, and the ocelots, and so on and so forth. Tell me about the damn game already.

[WCGreen]

2. Proselytizing is not showing support for Jesus...

[JoePhilly]

3. Respond as follows ... Jesus instructued you to pray in private ... not send it in emails.

Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

On edit ... and then add ... "btw ... everyone knows that God does not pay attention to football until the playoffs".

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

8. You are so right....and so fucking hilarious!

I love reminding pseudo-Christians about that advice (that they never seem to follow).

[robbob]

9. perfect!

Fight fire with fire! Or scripture with scripture. Or something like that...

Thanks!

[Arugula Latte]

4. ...

[progressoid]

24. +1

[Shankapotomus]

48. LOL

Awesome.

[msongs]

5. sounds like christians persecuting everyone else mostly nt

[WilliamPitt]

7. By deleting it.

[robbob]

13. So basically don't respond?

....yeah, that's kind of what I'll probably do. It's just I hate these e-mails that go out to 50 people and were all supposed to nod in agreement and say "gosh, those damn libruls are taking away our religious freedoms...."

[YvonneCa]

39. Give them a copy of...

...Jimmy Carter's book, "Our Endangered Values." Carter discusses these issues of church vs state from a Southern Baptist point of view and clarifies them in a way anyone...from any background...can understand.


He makes the case against fundamentalism in religion...including Christianity...as being dangerous. I gave it to a few members of my family several years ago. We didn't discuss it much...but they are now HUGE supporters of President Obama.

[trof]

43. 1. check snopes. 2. REPLY ALL!

[Robyn66]

54. I'm with Will

Delete it. If the friend is important to you just pretend they never sent it. If they send another one askthem to stop sending them to you and if you lose them as a friend they are pretty shallow.

[A HERETIC I AM]

10. 4 simple words;

"You are a moron."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Maybe a little scripture will help:

“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (Matthew 6)

[rsweets]

23. NO fair ... I call foul

you're quoting the new testament.. that's the one with

all that love thy brother crap... good god lovin' chritians

only quote the old testament these days.. you know the damn you,

damn them, damn everybody book.

I wish i could use the sarcasm thing, but i can't

[Marcia Brady]

14. In some parts of the world, Christians are persecuted

That's just a fact. People are often killed for expressing Christian faith in certain countries.

[progressivebydesign]

18. and this is germaine to American Christians in Tenn, how??? n/t

[2ndAmForComputers]

31. Sent you something enlightening by DU Mail.

Piece o' work, huh?

[JHB]

20. Not in Tennessee.

[2ndAmForComputers]

26. Awaiting your answer to progressivebydesign's question.

[treestar]

30. Exactly. That's persecution.

But not here. Here, what they want is the ability to force everyone to go along with their religion. That's not happening. The same thing that gives them religious freedom gives everyone else freedom to practice yet another religion.

[gollygee]

33. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia

Yeah but not in the US. In the US, Christians have a clear majority of power.

[Tom Ripley]

34. Marcia, Marcia, Marcia...(n/t)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Which is why it is so whiny for evangelicals and fundies (and it's ONLY they who

are complaining about this) to claim that they are being "persecuted" in America when they aren't allowed to impose their ideas on all of society.

[Iggo]

36. Not in Tennessee.

That's just a fact.

[kestrel91316]

50. Where in the USA are they persecuted??

In THIS country, it is the Christians that do the persecuting.

[Lex]

15. Here is what the Bible says about showing off prayers in public . . .

"5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

Matthew 6:5 and 6:6, etc.

[progressivebydesign]

16. I'd ask why the principal wasn't fired for talking about sexual perversion on the loudspeaker

Geez. what is WRONG with those people?

I'm stunned at the absolute ignorance and idiocy of those people at that school. Gays = sexual perversion? And that principal is WRONG, and should have been fired for talking about abortion, and perversion, and sex, at a family event at the school. Just as wrong as having a prayer.

How could you like someone that actually agrees with that stuff? I suspect you don't know her very well. Any reasonable and kind person would be incensed by the attack on gays in that thing she forwarded.

[NV Whino]

17. Tell her to stop sending you this tripe.

[Erose999]

19. I'd respond by sending them a link to Lemonparty.org or 2girls 1cup. Seriously though, to say that

kids can't pray in schools in an outright falsehood. They just can't do it during classtime or any other time when particiaption wouldn't be purely voluntary. And they can't be led by the faculty or administrators. Children are free to pray on their own or in groups many times during the day such as breaks between classes, lunch, recess, etc etc etc. There are groups like FCA (fellowship of x-ian athletes) and others that regularly have Christian worship at the schools.

[YvonneCa]

40. EXACTLY. n/t

[Warpy]

21. He needs to learn the difference between saying a prayer

and forcing other people to say it with him.

I don't think there's a single personal boundary out there in right wing Christian land. They all seem to lack the knowledge of where they end and other people begin.

[laundry_queen]

51. +1 nt

[progressoid]

22. Yeah, I usually just delete these.

Sometimes it's not worth the time to argue with Victorian era thinking.


But for what it's worth that happened 12 years ago.

Borrowing heavily from the Reverend Joe Wright, Principal Jody McLoud delivered this speech before a Roane County High School football game on 1 September 2000. Mr. McLoud, who had been principal of the 740-student school for eleven years at the time, was protesting the prohibition against leading prayers "on school property, at school-sponsored events, over the school’s public address system, by a speaker representing the student body, under the supervision of school faculty," which was brought about when the United States Supreme Court upheld the 'Santa Fe Independent School District v. Doe' that such activity violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. Principal McLoud's speech was also read into the 'Congressional Register' Congressional Record on 20 September 2000 by Representative Zach Wamp of Tennessee.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/mcloud.asp

[xchrom]

25. Since when do 'good' Christians force their prayers on others?

I'm a Christian - I don't ever force any body to participate in my prayers.

I pray in private - as I was instructed.

[progressivebydesign]

42. when we're sitting in a gym, at a city council meeting, etc. etc. etc. n/t

[xchrom]

46. but that doesn't escape the fact that we are instructed to pray in private. nt

[treestar]

27. As usual, as every one of the examples show

It is not Persecution to be unable to force others to abide by your own religious beliefs. It is persecution not to be able to practice your religion. Ask her if she has a church. Does she go to services there and pray without interference from the government? Can she be jailed for saying she follows her religion or for trying to get other people to follow it too? She has freedom of religion and free speech.

Does anyone get arrested for publishing and selling Christian books and magazines?

They ought to look at China for example where there is real religious persecution, or Saudi Arabia, where the police get involved if you don't follow religious rules.

[Tom Ripley]

28. Jesus spent as much time talking about his love of football...

as he did speaking about his hatred of homosexuality.
0

[JRLeft]

29. I would tell them to keep their God to thyselves.

[PotatoChip]

32. Not getting what the problem is here.

They prayed. It was just not officially led.

I'm guessing they're thinking this incident (if it indeed did really happen) was some sort of defiant gesture. But they are mistaken.

I obviously can't speak for everyone who objects to prayer in schools, but I suspect that a great many of us would have no problem with an unofficial moment of silence in place of their traditional prayer. And if some people spontaneously pray among themselves in small groups, fine. I doubt the ruling prohibits that.

I don't get why the Principal had to make a big stink out of such a non-issue.

[cbayer]

37. This happened 12 years ago after a supreme court decision.

This guy was apparently not happy with that decision, lol.

Oh, yeah, and he's a raging bigot.

[LadyHawkAZ]

38. I would open with JoePhilly's comment in post #3

put Arugula Latte's chart from #4 underneath it, maybe add in Tom Ripley's words from #28, close with JRLeft's comment from #29, send all that out to all 50 of the cc's, then follow WilliamPitt's advice from #7.

Sometimes it's nice to have community support.

[Viking12]

41. I would send them this quiz and tell them to STFU

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-emily-c-heath/how-to-determine-if-your-religious-liberty-is-being-threatened-in-10-questions_b_1845413.html

[progressivebydesign]

44. seriously. that is the BESt answer here. That's what should be sent. nt

[99Forever]

45. Short and sweet:

Peoples Constitutional Right to exercise their chosen religion by it's very definition, MUST include the Constitutional Right to have Freedom from those religions we don't choose, in PUBLICLY financed and owned venues. Period.

Pass that on.

[surrealAmerican]

47. Tell her you assume she would be equally willing to have the principal ...

... lead a Hindu prayer, if that happened to be his faith (regardless of what religion the students may be), since we have "freedom of religion, not freedom from religion".

[Viva_La_Revolution]

49. I would send her this article and quiz..

How To Tell If Your Religious Liberty Is Being Repressed

1. My religious liberty is at risk because:
A) I am not allowed to go to a religious service of my own choosing.
B) Others are allowed to go to religious services of their own choosing.

2. My religious liberty is at risk because:
A) I am not allowed to marry the person I love legally, even though my religious community blesses my marriage.
B) Some states refuse to enforce my own particular religious beliefs on marriage on those two guys in line down at the courthouse.

3. My religious liberty is at risk because:
A) I am being forced to use birth control.
B) I am unable to force others to not use birth control.

4. My religious liberty is at risk because:
A) I am not allowed to pray privately.
B) I am not allowed to force others to pray the prayers of my faith publicly.

more http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/how-tell-if-your-religious-liberty-be

[jmowreader]

52. That looks like a prayer to me...

I can just see it:

My friends,
Tonight at our football game we're celebrating alternative sexual practices.

In the football training facility there's going to be a Roman orgy. Adults in the weightroom, students in the sports medicine facility.

In the volleyball locker room is a gay orgy. Gay men on row 1, lesbians on row 2.

You'll need plenty of condoms so be sure to visit Ms. Smith's English room. In the science lab, the Glee Club is doing Brazilians to raise money for their trip to the Rose Parade in Pasadena on New Year's Day.

That RV over there has Dr. Gutkopf doing abortions. Just $29.95 and all proceeds go to the Cross Country team. This is our most popular fundraiser.

In Mr. Gray's welding lab we've got representatives from the Muslim, Buddhist and Sikh churches to handle all your conversion needs. There's also an Eastern Coptic proselytizer available, but he's a quarter mile away because there's weed involved.

And now let us pray: Dear deity each person worships in his own way, let our team beat their team like the redheaded stepchildren they are. Send their quarterback to the hospital with a broken back. End his career tonight because he's NFL-bound and we hate that. We ask for divine intervention because the team we're playing caused the 70-point mercy rule to kick in in the first quarter last time we played, and Lord if you don't smite about half their team we don't stand a chance. In your name we pray.

- - - - -

I'm sure you'd see that.

[4th law of robotics]

53. If not being able to talk to sky-fairies prior to watching kids fight over a ball

is your biggest concern in life you're doing ok.

/and for that matter it's not being able to tell others to do it from a position of authority. You can still pray all you want.

[Marrah_G]

55. I delete them and ask the sender not to send me these types of emails

[Navl]

56. Didn't happen