Trump needs to hurry up and pardon Flynn before Judge Sullivan brings the whole house of cards

[Solomon]

down. They done fucked with the wrong Judge. They will rue the day if they insist on pursuing this farce.

[MoonRiver]

1. K&R

[Pantagruel]

2. Part of the plea agreement

was Flynn's son not being prosecuted. A pardon may expose his kid. It's messy.

[Solomon]

3. You really think Trump cares about Flynn's son?

That's funny. He may be too stupid to realize what trouble he's in with Sullivan, but Barr is not.

So Flynn's son is worth bringing down the house? I don't think so but we will see.

Trump wouldn't even care as much for one of his own sons.

[malaise]

4. The Con is afraid that Flynn will spill the beans him

The next few months will be something to behold.

[Pantagruel]

11. Agree, Trump doesn't care about Flynn's son but

Flynn may not be willing to sacrifice him to get off. He protected him originally why wouldn't he do it again?

[uponit7771]

13. +1,

[Igel]

5. The idea of every guilty plea that the defendant wants to withdraw

suddenly being called "perjury" makes my blood run cold.

Lots of people have been sentenced to prison on plea deals only for public service projects to come along and find that they did not do it. They pled guilty, sure, and lied for their own reasons.

Similarly, there should be an additional 5 years, I guess, for every person found guilty who pleads innocent. Found guilty, it means you perjured yourself pleading innocent. You pled innocent to a misdemeanor drug charge in federal court and were found guilty? Probation for the drugs, but you lied under oath in federal court, so that's a felony.

[Solomon]

7. Oh get off it. Flynn is not some poor sod that pled guilty to something he didn't do.

He's a four star general for Chrissakes. Don't even try to compare him with poor, mostly minority defendants who get brow beaten into pleading guilty to avoid being railroaded into something worse.

There's a reason in this particular case the Judge wants an ,investigation into a perjury charge. Nobody but Trump and Pence are trying to claim he didn't lie to the FBI. Even Barr is saying he lied but the lie was immaterial.

[rufus dog]

12. To add

Since the majority of media won't, how the hell is a guy qualified to be National Security Advisor if he is so damn week to get 'forced' into pleading guilt? If that is tRumps defense, then he sure as hell needs to answer how he hired him for such a critical position.

[PJMcK]

8. Ever heard of the Fifth Amendment?

Your proposal is unconstitutional.

Besides, that's not how perjury charges work.

[blueinredohio]

6. I hope Judge Sullivan isn't like the rest and can be bought.

We have to have some true patriots somewhere.

[Solomon]

9. I know Judge Sullivan personally. I also practiced before him for many years. He will not be

bought. The same with Judge Reggie Walton. They were appointed by republicans but they take their jobs very seriously. They will not be bought.

I fear for them physically however, precisely because they can't be bought.

[blueinredohio]

10. I hope so . I fear they are our last hope.

If Flynn gets off and Manafort is out of prison they will be back in some form of government spot. And we are screwed if nothing is done to stop it.

[MFGsunny]

14. Me thinks the whole dis-Barr run at a dismissal for Flynn was ...

... was to "protect" Trumps from HAVING TO PARDON Flynn.

First of all, IANAL (don't even play one on Halloween), but ::

If all charges against Flynn are done, over and GONE = no pardon needed. Correct?

OTOH, with a presidential pardon, I believe that Flynn must admit to any and all crimes for which he is being pardoned, and effectively LOSES his 5th Amendment rights.

Question :: Would Flynn HAVE to tell the truth (like about what all he knows about Trump that involves Flynn as well, and for which Flynn got pardoned) IF he were to testify under oath in some venue of competent jurisdiction, and he got asked about what he (Flynn) knows that both Flynn and MF45 cabal did/knew?

Sorry for such lousy framing of my question. I hope lawyers here "get" where I'm going with this.

PLEASE, would lawyers on this thread help us out? Thanks in advance.

[Solomon]

15. Trump (Barr) opened Pandora's box when they pulled this withdraw the plea move.

And now they are trapped into doing a pardon. If the Judge was to lay down like they expected, then history would record their narrative that the Russia thing was indeed a hoax, the Mueller investigation was wrong, etc. It would even set the stage for Trump attempting to prosecute his political enemies. And they are itching to do this.

But if a hearing is held wherein the Judge validates that the whole Russian interference investigation was valid and proper, and upholds Flynn's conviction, then the narrative is destroyed, and Trump is up the creek. They are already trying to make hay out of "unmasking". All of that goes out the window if Flynn's conviction is sustained and the record is made that it was the Trump team that did wrong - not the investigators.

Of course Trump can sit back and not pardon. But if he doesn't the hearing will proceed to his detriment.

Remember, Flynn has already been convicted. There's nothing left to do but to sentence him to jail if the Judge decides not to allow the guilty plea to be withdrawn.

[MFGsunny]

16. Thank you, Solomon (perfect moniker) - makes perfect sense. So now I wonder ...

If Trump has to resort to pardoning Flynn, wouldn't he (shouldn't he) be scared to a diaper-full about what all Flynn can testify to that would result in serious damage to Trump???

p.s. I also try to keep up by reading emptywheel.net - seems to me, Marcy Wheeler is darn good on this stuff.