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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGah! Another anti-mask pseudo-scientific argument
So I was chatting with a conservative family member today and he informs me that wearing masks in places like supermarkets suppresses repeated mild exposure to the virus which would slowly and safely inoculate the public. This is basically a spin on herd immunity that I hadn't heard before.
I concede that acquired immunity is a real thing and will likely play a role in the future. However, I'm not aware of any science that suggests you can safely inoculate through a limited exposure to the virus, even in a lab environment. So the "science" is bogus if it somehow leads to the conclusion that this is in any way good public policy.
My real question is where is this coming from? Is it a Limbaugh-ism? I haven't watched Carlson or Hannity in a few weeks, are they spewing this now? Good grief.
LisaL
(44,961 posts)I don't believe there is such a thing as safe inoculation with a live virus. As for where they get it from-who the hell knows.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)But being a family member I'd like to know where he's getting brainwashed from.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Or merely looking for a source on your own? Seems you should, as he appears to be effectively "stirring up crazies..." if your concern is in fact, sincere.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)He'll vaguely cite "scientific papers" or whatever. That's not it, it's coming from some conservative blowhard celebrity, or maybe a blog or social media.
These things have fingerprints, though. If I can surprise him with that knowledge I can CRUSH the rickety framework.
madinmaryland
(64,913 posts)LisaL
(44,961 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,673 posts)of virus, like those in nursing homes etc that they can't help but get it.
Itr may be a little at a time like with the regular flu and colds etc might help, but at the same time if a person has a bad immune system, might die pretty quick.
I worked at home as a programer for about 10 years. I got a job at Alltel in Little Rock. The first day at work I was in a big line of people getting their badges and out was also flu season. Was sick and down with pneumonia for 2 weeks.
Most of us are getting the little doses every so often, but we fight it off. But if we encounter a big scattering with a tiny different strain, probably go down.
LisaL
(44,961 posts)The idea that it will give you immunity without making you sick is absurd.
LiberalArkie
(15,673 posts)And if it can be, does the immunity work between the different strains. Really the best that can be said is no one knows much of anything about it. It is only a 6 month old disease. How long did it take them to find out anything about HIV?
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,684 posts)with a live virus. However, in the case of the vaccines, they've been weakened in a way that makes them safe, that is produces the desired immune response with the person getting ill from the disease. Which is very different from their nonsensical notion that small exposures will lead to immunity.
LisaL
(44,961 posts)In a supermarket, you can't count on getting a small dose. If some guy coughs in your face, you get the mother-load right then and there.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,684 posts)Weakened, but live. Please don't think I'm pointing this out to suggest that what those idiots are saying is correct. It's just that being precise matters a lot to me.
Squinch
(50,664 posts)Beartracks
(12,748 posts)Shermann
(7,313 posts)The other was...that CNN is stirring up the right wing nutjobs? Clearly not a right wing talking point itself, although yes I offered up a mild criticism of CNN.
Grins
(7,111 posts)...Sweden coronavirus and see how that herd immunity is working out for them.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)He is stuck on the idea that their model is the way through this. That bit of wisdom is definitely being parroted on FXN.
Sweden has had an uptick but it hasn't raged out of control to the degree where this idea is discredited (yet).
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Learned Bill Gates wants to put chips in them, I imagine. Or that the death numbers are inflated so hospitals get more money.
Social media lets everyone express just what idiots they are. And then they herd with other idiots.
Beartracks
(12,748 posts)Attenuated viruses are not live viruses. They are introduced to the body to trigger the production of specific antibodies so if the person ever does encounter the live virus their body will be prepared to fight it off without the person getting sick: immunity. BUT you don't encounter attenuated viruses in the wild; infected people at the supermarket and pool parties in the Ozarks will only be shedding live virus when they cough and breathe. The idea that you can gradually "get used to" a virus is a) not even possible with a live virus, because b) that's not how immunity works in the first place.
But Republicans, in most every policy and priority they espouse, pay no attention at all to how things actually work. They do love to fling around their truthy-sounding bullshit.
==============
Shermann
(7,313 posts)So if you were lucky and were exposed to less than that, maybe just maybe you could build up some antibodies without getting sick.
But to suggest that wearing masks is counter-productive seems to be taking an uncontrollable (at best) or unproven (at worst) outlier scenario and making an absurdly dangerous idea out of it.
LisaL
(44,961 posts)It might minimize it. So if someone wants to minimize their exposure, it only makes sense to wear a freaking mask.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)Err on the side of minimizing the exposure instead of maximizing it.
Logic goes out the window sometimes with conservatives...
kimbutgar
(20,762 posts)What's True
Breathing in excessive carbon dioxide is dangerous for the body. Some people with preexisting respiratory illnesses may face health issues only with prolonged use of tight-fitting masks, such as respirators.
What's False
However, people wearing cloth or surgical masks are in little to no danger of breathing in unhealthy amounts of carbon dioxide.
Ultimately, the impact of a mask on its wearer depends on the wearers health, any pre-existing respiratory illnesses, the type of mask, and the length of time the person wears it. In most instances, the effects of prolonged cloth mask usage are small. Masks, like most short-term measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19, should be worn only if the wearer has to be in close proximity to others, and be used in addition to necessary measures like social distancing, and more. As such, we rate this claim about the dangers of masks as Mostly false.
And also ask them to research herd immunity in Sweden is failing and per capita they have high infection and death rates. But if your conservative family members insists he is correct then he really shouldnt be forced to wear a mask and face the consequences.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)tblue37
(64,847 posts)Azathoth
(4,602 posts)You don't get repeated "mild" exposure. This isn't snake venom. You either get infected or you don't.
Initial viral load is probably important in determining the severity of your illness, but that's not something you can control in a supermarket.
4139
(1,893 posts)unblock
(51,917 posts)masks aren't good at giving 100% protection, especially if the seal isn't perfect.
What they are good at doing, though, is turning a big viral load event, such as a direct sneeze from an contagious person, into a much smaller viral load event, as most of it is contained in the sneezer's mask, or, the sneezee's mask. But the sneezee might nevertheless get exposed to a small amount of virus that finds its way around the gaps.
So if anything, the sneeze allows for small viral load exposures.
The absence of a mask simply exposes you to a massive viral load.
Shermann
(7,313 posts)I'm just curious which illogical conservative blowhard came up with this.
I think it's a bit radical for Carlson and Co. but you never know.
TeamPooka
(24,120 posts)Warpy
(110,744 posts)The only ways you'll acquire any immunity to this thing is either going through the disease, which is a bad one even with a mild case, or managing to avoid it until a vaccine comes out, is tested, and is distributed in such a way that non billionaires can get it.
The only way to buy time enough to see the latter is meticulous hygiene and wearing an N-95 mask. Cloth and paper masks will stop large droplets that can contain millions of viruses, slowing down the rate of infection even though they admit viruses fairly freely. Paper and cloth offer incomplete protection, but they do stop large droplets and keep your fingers off your face, another method of transmission.
So tell your conservative family member someone has fed him a whole boatload of hooey, that if he wants to live through this thing and protect the people around him to quit bitching and put on a damn mask.
Let him know if he finds the mask uncomfortable, he's really going to hate that endotracheal tube and ventilator.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)be immunized against the common cold (another coronavirus)