The looting is sickening. There's no defense for it. It hurts the cause and takes the focus away

[redstateblues]

from systemic racism. I'm heart broken. I have been a protestor in my life many times but this is not protesting. Dr. King would be appalled.

[idziak4ever1234]

1. The violence and looting is criminal behavior. Not a viable form of protest, at all.

[R B Garr]

2. Agreed, it's losing the message of the protests and

enhancing the police image.

[Raine]

3. Nothing but criminals

who don't care one bit about injustice, they're just taking advantage of the situation.

[Bev54]

4. Let's be clear on this

it is not the protesters doing the damage, it is the infiltrators who have hijacked the protests. The white racist nationalists are starting the fires and breaking the windows, opening it for the looters. These are outside agitators.

[crickets]

15. Exactly. Thank you.

Respectfully, anyone who is seriously confusing the protestors with the agitators at this point needs to take another look.

[Skittles]

22. so which is it?

I hear it being blamed on infiltrators but excused if it's the "protesters".

[Bev54]

24. It is infiltrators that are the agitators

as are the looters, but the agitators that are organized are doing the damage. There is no excuse for the looting either but they are being egged on. The actual protesters are protesting peacefully. If you haven't noticed you are willfully not looking, there is examples all over.

[Skittles]

32. yes I have seen some poignant protests

I wish they were all like that....protesting violence with violence is stupid.

[Tipperary]

40. Thank you!

[Skittles]

48. I am sick of the hypocrisy

you can be justifiably angry without STARTING FIRES

[Crunchy Frog]

57. Yes but starting fires is the only thing that will WORK.

Since peaceful protest DOESN'T. How can you value property more than LIVES?


Just paraphrasing what I've been reading on here.

[StarfishSaver]

46. It's far more complex than you seem to understand

While it may all look the same to some, people who are willing to delve deeper understand the behavior of genuine protesters is distinguishable from that of agitators because it arises out of completely different circumstances.

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention.

And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

Some of the looting is opportunistic, but, as Dr. King understood, some of it is the result of people who feel they have no other option than to explode. Treating them all as lawless criminals is exactly the kind of deafness that Dr. King called out.

[Skittles]

47. I understand that setting fires is arson and is a CRIME

*PERIOD*

what would these folk think of angry people setting fire to THEIR house or THEIR workplace? It is BULLSHIT.

[StarfishSaver]

49. ...

"And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

[Skittles]

50. so you'd be fine if they set your house on fire?

or your workplace?

RIDICULOUS.....this endangers lives and puts firefighters at risk - it is utter fucking BULLSHIT

[Maven]

25. Let's face it, a lot of them are just opportunists

Who are taking advantage of the moment to commit crimes. A lot of them are kids.

Here in CA we've had people roll up in cars, run into stores, run out with stolen merch and speed away. They aren't protesters, but they aren't politically-motivated infiltrators either.

[Bev54]

28. Yes and the agitators know

they will go in.

[dhill926]

30. exactly what I've seen on LA tv.....

[redstateblues]

38. Yep

[Polybius]

29. I've seen videos all day

Trust me they are not all white nationalists.

[StarfishSaver]

5. Why do you think Dr. King would be appalled?

He wasn't appalled by looting and rioting when he was alive. In fact, he fully understood it and tried to explain it to people who claimed to be outraged by it.

And I wish people would STOP saying that it "takes the focus away" from the real problem. Anyone whose focus is drawn off of the real problem because some people behave badly isn't really interested in the problem in the first place. People who actually care and who are prone to do something about it aren't going to be distracted or dissuaded by the looting.

And many of the same people who claim they are horrified by the violence and are calling for people to "protest peacefully" also attacked Colin Kaepernick, et al when they DID protest peacefully. Those people don't care one whit about the form protest takes. They just want black people to STFU so they can go back to ignoring us.

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. THIS.

We all sit as armchair quarterbacks and judge and make assumptions based on...what? Right now the fog of this thing is thick.

But let's not do the work of the wingnuts for them, okay???

[StarfishSaver]

18. Folk should probably just leave Dr. King out of these discussions

Or at least not decide what he would be thinking or doing now - especially if they haven't bothered to learn any more about his philosophy and teachings beyond his "I Have a Dream" speech.

[redstateblues]

39. Dr. King's life and ministry were based on non violence.

[StarfishSaver]

45. Yes, they were

But it's silly revisionism for anyone in 2020 to declare that Dr. King would be appalled by anything occurring today - especially since, as I said, he had a lot to say about rioting in the 1960s and his view was far more complex and nuanced than that of those who today choose to lecture us about Dr. King's views.

For example:

But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention.

And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.

These are NOT the words of a man who would be "appalled" by the unrest we're seeing today - which is actually considerably milder and less destructive than the riots Dr. King experienced - regardless how committed he was to nonviolence.

As I said, it's probably better for people not to invoke Dr. King when trying to lecture others about this topic unless they have a broader and deeper understanding of his views and philosophy. It just sounds shallow and exploitative.

[Skittles]

51. says someone using Dr. King to justify arson

please

Done here; I find it APPALLING

[chowder66]

14. K & R.

[crickets]

17. +1

[IndyOp]

20. What makes me sick is the 9-yr-old Black boy holding a sign at

protest - “Am I Next?” That makes me sick. Riots that damage property don’t come close.

I worry people will get hurt - and they will - from other rioters and from representatives of the criminal punishment system - but when people who are fucking bird watching in a park wind up in a life threatening situation I get it, I get the rioting.

[live love laugh]

26. Agree. nt

[ecstatic]

44. +1000. nt

[Pantagruel]

6. It's simply human nature

Gather a 1000 people with noble intentions and a few on the fringe will always be ready to selfishly ruin the projected image of nobility for incomprehensibly small personal gains.
Throw in the fact that 40 million newly unemployed, probably mostly young and POC are feeling cheated and angry and the danger multiplies.

I've probably been to 50 protests in my 70 years, never seen a perfect march. Someone always embarrasses but that's no reason to stop marching.

[MFM008]

7. some of this is so

professional looking, like this sort of thing had been planned for a long time by white supremacists, boogaloo buys, proud boys?

[Pantagruel]

10. Some of it is "false flag"

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/fbi-white-supremacists-in-law-enforcement

"In the 2006 bulletin, the FBI detailed the threat of white nationalists and skinheads infiltrating police in order to disrupt investigations against fellow members and recruit other supremacists. The bulletin was released during a period of scandal for many law enforcement agencies throughout the country, including a neo-Nazi gang formed by members of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department who harassed black and Latino communities. Similar investigations revealed officers and entire agencies with hate group ties in Illinois, Ohio and Texas.

Much of the bulletin has been redacted, but in it, the FBI identified white supremacists in law enforcement as a concern, because of their access to both “restricted areas vulnerable to sabotage” and elected officials or people who could be seen as “potential targets for violence.” The memo also warned of “ghost skins,” hate group members who don’t overtly display their beliefs in order to “blend into society and covertly advance white supremacist causes.”

“At least one white supremacist group has reportedly encouraged ghost skins to seek positions in law enforcement for the capability of alerting skinhead crews of pending investigative action against them,” the report read. [snip]

As the nation continues to examine the role of race in law enforcement, many like Jones question whether scrutiny of the infiltration by white supremacists will move beyond the FBI’s acknowledgement a decade ago to specific action in the decades to come.

“There needs to more direct enforcement,” Jones said. “It’s one thing to issue a memo, and another to have continued action after it. There was a warning 10 years ago and nothing else since then.”

[crickets]

16. Great minds think alike - I just posted this as its own thread.

I didn't see your post beforehand so I hope you don't mind. I think the more people see this, the better.

[Pantagruel]

19. Sorry crickets

saw your on point post and simply threw the info up on this thread. Should have cited you , apologize.

[crickets]

21. Not at all, that's not what I meant!

If you saw and shared it that is GREAT! Go for it. I thought I was the one copying you.

[jimfields33]

35. MSNBC is showing a shoe store in Santa Monica

Doesn’t look professional or anything. Just a lot of shoes going out of the shoe stores.

[malchickiwick]

9. You're right. The looting of resources from POC to the wealthy ruling class has got to end!!

[Jamastiene]

11. Personally, I think the lynching of black people by police,

every damn time we turn around is sickening.

Buildings, stores, cars, and products can be replaced and reproduced. A human life cannot be brought back, replaced, or reproduced, once it is lost. Things can be replaced and buildings can be repaired or rebuilt. That human life is lost forever.

[Crunchy Frog]

58. It's not an either/or proposition.

It's possible to be opposed to both.

All that property damage may be destroying people's livelihoods, or their ability to get to work, or the ability to buy food and other things in their communities.

What if there are people in a building that gets burned down?

And in real life, much of that property does not get rebuilt or replaced, and the local community suffers for it.

And anyway, much of this destruction is being carried out by outsiders out to make the protesters look bad.

And guess what? I'm also outraged by police murdering black people. I can hold two thoughts in my head at once.

[nitpicker]

12. +1

[Demovictory9]

13. the "dr. King",'Racism" reference implies only one group is looting... video of looting diversity

Link to tweet

[Tipperary]

41. That was funny as hell watching that guy drop all those shoeboxes.

What is this obsession with sneakers anyway!

[lunasun]

23. Looking at an empty doughnut shop, family dollar , cricket mobile and a foot locker almost empty

- give it a minute
And that was just one local strip mall they showed for a TV report that had been ransacked tonight
Then they showed protestors with signs down walking back home for the night from a real earlier gathering .
They walked on the sidewalk across the screen, not part of the looting behind them, but juxtaposed by the camera.

[customerserviceguy]

27. And it will destroy the cities

I'm old enough to remember when people in the suburbs used to go to the big cities often, for cultural and culinary experiences that they couldn't get in their bedroom communities, then stopped (or at least drastically slowed down) doing that, and the cities suffered. This is going to happen again.

[madville]

31. I think the cops are enjoying the looting, that's why they aren't stopping it

Many will associate the unrest only with their communities getting ransacked, local businesses getting permanently destroyed and curfews, not the original issue. THe cops just have to stand back and wait for the public opinion to sway back in their favor when people demand order be restored.

[moondust]

33. "Possible" mitigating circumstances.

You're one of the many Americans who does not have $400 to pay off an emergency expense. You may be completely broke.

You had a low-paying job until COVID lockdown and now you don't know when--or if--you will be going back to work. If your old job no longer exists you don't know if you'll ever find another one with so many unemployed out looking for jobs.

You and your family continue to have expenses for food, housing, transportation, etc.

In other words, there *may* be some people in desperate situations who are pissed at "the system" that has kept them in such dire straits and they just don't care any more--they have to eat. It may be simply about survival for some. Besides, those stores probably have insurance so they'll survive.

[highplainsdem]

34. I agree. MSNBC is covering the looting in Santa Monica now. Disgusting.

There are NOT protesters.

[tman]

37. And It helps Trump greatly, yet

many on here are still in denial.

[StarfishSaver]

52. Sure about that?

This is not the kind climate that makes people say, "Yeah - gimme some more of THIS!"

Link to tweet

[zak247]

42. Tabloid news

These networks MSNBC, Fox, CNN are ultimately just tabloid news so they will show what is most exciting and Tabloid newsworthy
And then have their politically biased commentators show up and comment.


Its no longer news, but cheap entertainment


The people are just going out because they've been pent up for months now and have no place to go, so they go downtown to the protest.


There a few hotheads, gang members, and lefty and righty troublemakers and provocateurs.


I do like it that most of the protestors are white folks. That's progress.

Thumbs up to the sincere protestors but go home now and chill out. You've made your point.

[JCMach1]

43. And there's the pearl clutching...

[aikoaiko]

53. The looting of stores doesn't bother me much, but the arson is really scary.

Fire can get out of control. A box of sneakers is just a box of sneakers.

[Skittles]

54. oh but don't you know, people are ANGRY!

the justification for arson I am seeing is absolutely SICKENING

[OhioChick]

56. I agree n/t

[Dial H For Hero]

55. Well said.