The Second Amendment Applies to ALL Americans,

[MineralMan]

Not just to white right-wingers.

We are also armed.

[dalton99a]

1. Exactly.

Lots of Democrats are well prepared and capable of defending themselves

[MineralMan]

7. Many people own firearms.

They just don't carry them around. That would be stupid. That's not how it works.

Study the French Resistance.

[ace3csusm]

2. Except for one thing

Black & Brown people are labeled as antifa and the govt will be justified in shooting them down...Just look at reopen protest vs current protest....

[MineralMan]

4. Nonsense!

[Lancero]

40. Given the treatment both groups recieved, not exactly wrong.

Also, see Bundy's little 'protest'. White guys with guns are treated with baby gloves, meanwhile King Oompa Loompa pushes for military force to be used against black protesters.

White Privilege in action.

[ancianita]

93. Remember, too, that Killer Mike has a national voice, says he owns guns, just so righties know

they're not special, and so they'll think twice in general about black people and guns.

[JonLP24]

3. I seem to remember Philando Castile had a legal weapon and was killed because of it

As far as developed countries go the US has the highest rates of gun homicides & gun ownership rates. I realize very little will change because of the 2nd Amendment.

[MineralMan]

5. He was not prepared to defend himself.

Tactics.

[Throck]

6. Developed country?

More of a banana republic.

[roamer65]

8. I am ready.

[MineralMan]

11. Yes.

[roamer65]

13. We all deep down knew it would come to this.

This is where all fascists go.

I pray it resolves peacefully.

[bdamomma]

44. We knew

it would come to this, one horrible event was a tinderbox, a combination of everything Covid,and all the deaths, innocent Black men getting killed,unemployment and a wanna be Dictator who is ripping this country apart for an outside adversary.

We will get through this, glad DU is here.

[roamer65]

67. ..

[safeinOhio]

56. Locked and loaded, Sir.

[maxsolomon]

9. I'm not.

Nor do I want to feel I need to be.

[MineralMan]

12. OK.

Not all share your viewpoint.

[maxsolomon]

15. Is it though?

Sounds like lots of people are itching to put holes in other Americans today.

[Lancero]

39. Deep down, all ammo-sexuals want a chance to whip out their gun pump out a few.

[ace3csusm]

10. This whole 2nd Amendment is all about gun revenue

Do you really think armed American citizen can go to war against a us military...

[MineralMan]

14. Individually? NO.

See the French Resistance.

[Calculating]

25. It's not about fighting the military head on

It's about going after those who would SEND the military after you.

[ace3csusm]

29. The Govt

Who can send in the military to protect them...Remember these people never do the fighting themselves they send others to do their fighting for them...

[Calculating]

31. It's about gorilla tactics

Unless those in the government want to hide inside for the rest of their lives they would be wise not to send the military after their own citizens. Just look at the guy who shot up that republican baseball game as an example.

[MichMan]

35. Gorilla???

[sarisataka]

41. Gorilla Tactics

[NutmegYankee]

52. It's Guerrilla

Spanish for "little" war.

[Sapient Donkey]

90. Can't we just use gorilla tape on Trump's mouth instead?

His tiny hands too. Gotta keep him from tweeting.

[dware]

46. I seem to remember a war in the 60's and 70's in a place called Vietnam

where the Vietnamese citizens did a pretty good fucking job of going to war against the US military.

I know, because I was there.

It's not about attacking the military head on, it's about interdicting the supplies that make the tanks run, make the planes fly, etc., it's about demoralizing the troops.


Asymmetical warfare It's a term you need to learn.

[AntiFascist]

61. Actually the second amendment serves a specific purpose in relation to state militias...

Madison wrote how a federal army could be kept in check by state militias, "a standing army ... would be opposed [by] a militia." He argued that state militias "would be able to repel the danger" of a federal army, "It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops." He contrasted the federal government of the United States to the European kingdoms, which he described as "afraid to trust the people with arms," and assured that "the existence of subordinate governments ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition".

[Amishman]

81. look at the scenes occurring right now

we are past the limits of what law enforcement can do to keep the peace.

Imagine what/who would be targeted if right wingers openly took to the streets

the argument that we should arm ourselves isn't about the US military, its about the mad armed masses of trumpers.

I have a modern pistol, and some old guns passed down in the family. I'm glad I have them.

[JmAln]

16. Agreed.

Yes we are.

[MineralMan]

17. I don't know you, I'm afraid.

Sorry.

[JmAln]

57. I was just agreeing with your post.

I didn't mean to imply you knew me.

[ace3csusm]

18. French Resistance

The US is the Number 1 military power in the world...Military soldier training for years in shooting tactics, they have weapons at their disposal that arent sold in gun shops...Sorry we would lose and lose badly...

[Shiv]

20. Except at a certain point,...

having a country will be more important to that military the Drumpf's life. Military's and Cabinets have tried to assassinate their bosses for far less. These have other means less severe. 1000's of dead Americans is not what most of our military wants. And they can't kill and imprison us all and tell the world they're America anymore. If we tumble, they'll have a two front war and no incoming resources and nothing to rebuild with. its idiocy.

[roamer65]

28. Not all of the military will go along with murdering civilians.

The ones who take their oath seriously will disobey unlawful orders as required by military law.

If it gets bad enuff, I can see them training civilians for combat.

[Shiv]

32. We do it for freedom overseas..

(supposedly) but they sure have the experience, you gotta imagine they'd do it for their families, and their neighbors.

And the far-right that thinks just getting the Presidency gives them the military, has a serious lack of understanding how diverse the U.S. Military is and with non-citizen immigrants when they join, as well. It's part of our traditions. The supremacists that join, as far as I know, don't make it far past grunts unless they're not total morons, don't stay in past 5-15 years before leaving to be militia nuts, and never get into the serious technical or logistic stuff.

It's not cut and dried, but there are good reasons to consider not despair.

[roamer65]

70. Gen Wesley Clark was very pissed tonite on CNN.

This is not sitting well with the military.

[Shiv]

73. Yeah I saw Gen Barry McCaffrey...

Whatever I may have once thought of him during the drug czar years, for a long while now and especially when he said what he did about not bringing bayonets to bear on American civilians, major respect.

It's very reassuring. They're just the ones who can speak to the press. I can't imagine how those serving feel.

[dware]

47. Gee, that's what the Pentagon thought about Vietnam,

How well did that work out for us?
How well has Iraq worked our for us?
How well has Afghanistan worked out for us?

Think guerilla tactics.

[ace3csusm]

19. Remember Waco

Didnt go well for them

[dware]

49. They weren't mobile, they were sitting ducks,

on the other hand, a mobile guerilla force can cause massive damage with hit and run tactics.

Ask me how I know this.

[Shiv]

21. this

It gives me significant solace to know that for every self-absorbed idiot weekend warrior trying to build a stockpile, there are countless countless people who are more interested in protecting their community, their neighbors, and the country.

What a moronic move when unarmed righteously angry civilians, even if a few with sticks and stones, are being endangered by this right winger nuts. to invoke protecting the wrong amendment. W T F. Protect the first, not the second. Everyone heard that bullhorn. It wasn't a dog whistle. The fool must think only his isolationist idiots heard.

I hear you.

To those despairing about the power of the admin, the coward paper tiger... I don't think he even means to do what he says, but he brought it on himself now.

I expressed this I feel related sentiment earlier. https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13520570 This'll be over quick. #FightFascismEverywhere #25thAmendmenttheBigot #Nuremberg2021

[ace3csusm]

22. I hear you...

Your correct its not just him the ones around him helped do this...This is what happens when you surround yourself with incompetent people with no experience running a government. I dont excuse any of it they all own it...I dont want to hear i was just following orders...

[Shiv]

23. I don't either..

those are serious ass trigger words when not spoke in reference but by someone hiding behind them. (the following orders bit. not gonna fly)

pardon my language.

[Polybius]

24. I live in NYC

It's too hard to get a permit here.

[MineralMan]

26. I live in Minnessota. No permit needed

for long guns. I have no use for pistols.

[Devil Child]

88. Now is the time to reassess draconian gun control legislation in your community

Lobby your elected officials as a Democratic voter for your Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Calculating]

27. Agreed

In these times it's more important than ever to own a gun or two so you can at least defend yourself and your family if it comes to it.

[PTWB]

30. I do believe in the cliche ...

“Better to have a gun and not need one, than need one and not have one.”

There is a sub-Reddit for liberal gun owners.

[keithbvadu2]

33. All Americans?

Take a guess - Which one led to gun control legislation, which one won't?

[MichMan]

37. You will have to ask California

Since these are two different states 50 years apart, not sure what your point is ?

Why should Michigan residents be subject to prosecution for laws in California?

When black 2nd amendment supporters did the same thing a couple weeks ago, no one was arrested either.

[link:https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.detroitnews.com/amp/5275209002|

[keithbvadu2]

38. Doggone! I thought the SA was countrywide.

Doggone! I thought the SA was countrywide.

[MichMan]

42. They were treated the same in Michigan

'We have to arm ourselves': Black Michigan demonstrators protest brutality

After a series of events where mostly white protesters carried guns at the Michigan Capitol and drew national attention, a group of armed black demonstrators hoped Thursday to send their own message.
"I want to present myself as an adult black man, fully armed and not a danger," said Stephen Alexander, 46, of Lansing, who carried a pistol outside the Capitol building during the event. "If you are not a danger to me, I am not dangerous.
"It's as simple as that."



[link:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/28/we-have-arm-ourselves-michigan-demonstrators-protest-brutality/5275209002/|

[keithbvadu2]

43. Hasn't always been that way, has it?

[MichMan]

50. I believe so according to the State Police

"In Michigan, it is legal for a person to carry a firearm in public as long as the person is carrying the firearm with lawful intent and the firearm is not concealed. You will not find a law that states it is legal to openly carry a firearm. It is legal because there is no Michigan law that prohibits it; however, Michigan law limits the premises on which a person may carry a firearm.'

[link:https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf|

[keithbvadu2]

51. That's ok.

That's ok.

You had to change your tack when the CA angle didn't work.

[MichMan]

58. I couldn't care less about some gun laws California passed over 50 years ago.

I live 2500 miles away. You seem to think it is pertinent to Michigan for some reason or other.

All Americans in Michigan are covered by the 2nd amendment as I already posted with a recent example at the state capitol building. I don't nor have I ever owned a firearm, but neither group that had weapons at the state capitol caused any damage, unlike protesters yesterday that vandalized the governor's office

[Meowmee]

34. I have no arms and no plan to

There are way too many guns in this country imo. If I lived alone maybe I would consider it for protection but it would be for show considering I can’t physically fire a gun. More dems need to vote, that is the way to resolve this hopefully, we wouldn't be in this mess if more had voted.

[AntiFascist]

36. Maybe we need to start forming militias...

in order to defend Americans against the Federal government.

[roamer65]

45. [phone]

Last edited Tue Jun 2, 2020, 02:55 AM - Edit history (2)

Wouldn’t hurt, that’s for sure. They should be state militias, under complete control of a state’s legislature and governor.

We need to get back to more of a confederation, rather than federation. As we were from 1789-1861.

[Shiv]

74. I was just explaining..

extensive ideas on this to my sister recently. Why the weekend warriors are dangerous and unregulated, and why community based militias with secured armories for emergencies, an informed citizenry to be deputized to take up arms, an ability to have access to the things that you don't want available readily but we needed once before, like, ya know, cannons. I never get why the extreme 2nd Amendment types with the whole "well they only had front-loading muskets that took 4 minutes to reload" as some way to muddy the waters. The founders knew about cannons, they certainly didn't want rando farmers having a cannonades worth stowed in a barn for when he decided he'd had enough taxes collected by the city! or that guy looking at him funny at the market. But they reasonably wanted local regulated militias to be able to defend against a tyrannical appropriation of power with a harbor blockade of warships.

I recognize the national guard sorta fits a similar role, but not quite the train really primitively two weeks after coming of age on whatever you didn't learn hunting growing up or in a region or family that didn't have that opportunity, then never be involved again if peace reigns to your old age kinda way. Except maybe a bake sale for some new body armour or goggles or something.

I'm weird, what can I say.

[AntiFascist]

91. That's why the second amendment came about...

to allow states to defend against a tyrannical government. Is this an outdated idea? Not under Trump.

The question of loyalty within the ranks of the National Guard would be an interesting one.

[roamer65]

92. The question of loyalty in the NG's and federal troops would be interesting.

They would definitely fracture under an extreme civil unrest scenario.

[aikoaiko]

48. Gungeoneer reporting for duty if needed.

[USALiberal]

53. Lol! Expected this! Nt

[aikoaiko]

55. I'm good for something!

[GusBob]

54. My friends

Winchester, Remington, Smith, Wesson, and I agree. Our aim is true

[dware]

59. I haven't held a firearm since I ret. from the Marine Corps,

but it's just like riding a bicycle, once you learn how, you never forget.

You are absolutely correct, the 2nd Amendment applies to all qualified Americans, not just white people.

[pecosbob]

60. I have read your posts over several years

This sort of seems like Garrison Keillor going commando.

[MineralMan]

75. I tend to post based on the existing conditions.

When conditions change, my posts change. Who I am does not change.

[vercetti2021]

62. Got that right.

I originally locked away my handgun and rifle. Now...I'm not feeling so sad or depressed anymore. I'm not going anywhere until this fucker and his ilk are out of office. Any psycho right winger better not come around me or my family. I won't hesitate.

[Raine]

63. I have several guns

I'm glad I have them, I'm keeping them.

[ansible]

64. The current riots should really be a wake-up call that you're on your own in the worst case scenario

Don't expect the police to come and help you, they clearly don't give a fuck.

[sarisataka]

65. Went to the local Fleet Farm today

they have taken all of the guns off display and have them in the back.

About 20 people were at the counter to buy, only about 1/4 were white.

[roamer65]

66. Not surprised.

They even have the long guns in the back?

[sarisataka]

68. I didn't ask what they had

But the only purchases I saw complete were long guns.

The counters where they normally keep handguns and the wall that displays long guns were all empty.

[roamer65]

69. I've been plunking with my Win 30-30.

I like that one.

[sarisataka]

71. My brother has one of those in an odd caliber

25-35 maybe. I think we last took it out five years ago

[roamer65]

72. That's def an odd caliber.

Never heard of it, actually. But I have seen ammo in different odd calibers.

Stock Win 30-30 model 94 here.

[Dial H For Hero]

77. It pretty obscure these days, although you can still get (fairly expensive) ammunition.

[roamer65]

80. Def expensive I bet.

[Dial H For Hero]

82. Typically $1.50 per round or so.

[hack89]

89. It dates back to 1895

It was introduced for the Winchester Model 1894 & Savage Model 99 lever action rifles. The case is based on the .30-30 cartridge.

[MineralMan]

76. Ammo is still on the shelves, though.

You do have to show your driver's licence at the checkout counter, though, to purchase ammo. I'm sure Fleet Farm has moved the long guns off display to prevent theft, even though they are normally behind the counter. I haven't been in my nearby Mills Fleet Farm for a while, so I didn't know they have them in the back.

They are certainly advertising them in their weekly flyer, though. I'm not in the market at this time for any new ones.

[USALiberal]

78. LOL, ok! nt

[SQUEE]

79. Though I am well armed, I doubt I will do much good

The whiplash this thread has given me rendered me combat ineffective.

Watching a forum that 2 weeks ago laughed at the preposterous notion that armed citizens could take on the might of the US military, and in many cases express glee at the outcome they supposed, do a complete 180 and think they could do it. With less people, less gear,, less experience and less overall drive to do so.

Having a gun, and knowing how to use it are 2 separate things, and being actually prepared is yet another. I do not want to ever have to fire a weapon in anger again, I lost something that first day, a little more each time after. Would I do it one more time? Yes, if I have to, but I will not sit here and thump my chest about it. I do not want my family, my friends and my fellow Americans to become the people that I have had to fight for and against in other countries.

Sorry, but I see nothing from the majority here that makes any of this posturing a reality.

[sarisataka]

85. It is quite the reversal

How the message changed from 'the military would squash resistance like a bug to 'we have to arm ourselves.'

Also it bears noting that much what is happening is exactly what was asked for

>call out the Guard- check
>send in armored vehicles- check
>buzz them with helicopters- check
>disarm them and order them to disperse. If they do not comply, shoot to kill- not yet (thank any deity or power you wish)

As much as it pains me to admit, (and I did post opposition to the MI protesters) there was no looting or burning that happened in MI.

I also understand when you say you lose something when you have to fire on another human. Peace to you

[ace3csusm]

83. I think instead of buying we should all just stop paying taxes

the government cant run without taxes, unless changes are made i protest my taxes by not paying...If state make changes ill pay their share and once fed makes their changes i pay them also....NO JUSTICE NO TAXES...

[jmg257]

84. Yep and SO glad we got it - its obvious no one else will protect us.

Cant count on anyone but you and yours.

[Paladin]

86. Remember the fun lecture we used to constantly get from our resident gun militants?

The one stating that the 2nd Amendment wasn't brought about merely to arm deer hunters, oh no, no, no. The 2nd is in place to guard the public against the dangerous and overreaching powers of a corrupt authoritarian government.

Funny how that lecture doesn't turn up much anymore, given how things are going....

[SQUEE]

94. You aren't talking to the right people.

But the few thousand of us, maybe, that could actually do what needs to be done aren't gonna last long. That dear Paladin is on you and yours.

I'll just be over here with my tiny penis and bloody hands, wishing I could afford to feel smug about it.

[Paladin]

96. You know not whereof you speak.

Bang bang.

[SQUEE]

97. Great guess, and you even got the 11 series right, but sorry, a Hotel/Mike.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Paladin]

98. I always try to keep Odessa folks entertained. (nt)

[SQUEE]

99. It's not hard.

Strange flex, but I admire your ... moxy?

[Paladin]

101. Moxy? I like it. I've been accused of a lot worse. (nt)

[Devil Child]

87. Amen, I hope all who are able and willing take on the responsibility of arming themselves

An armed citizenry is needed now more than ever.

[DFW]

95. I'm amazed it hasn't happened yet.

A group of snipers hears about a group of right wing thugs appearing to threaten some statehouse, and suddenly some shots ring out from some distant place 400 yards distant, whereupon ten of the armed thugs drop to the floor. Or three steroid-addled cops start beating on some pregnant woman with their nightsticks when a few shots are heard and when the crowd disperses, all three of the assault team lay on the ground from GSW. That it hasn't happened yet, I can only attribute to the fact that "libbruls" don't consider violence a solution to anything. But self-defense is another thing entirely. How long will it be before some 21st century version of Zorro show up to even the chances of the victims of the brutal cops? I'm in awe of the restraint shown so far. I only wonder how long it can be counted on to be perpetuated? If they think they are the only ones with guns, they think wrong. Some day, some of them will beat the wife or sister or mother of the wrong Afghanistan vet, and THEN who's the hero?

[MineralMan]

100. That's pretty much a fantasy scenario, really.

Very few people have the equipment and skills to snipe reliably at 400 yard range. Further, there are really very few places that offer a 400 yard clear sightline in any developed area.

Not going to happen.