General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNotice that many of the people saying "looting distracts from the REAL problem"
never stop obsessing over and drawing attention to the looting long enough to actually talk about the "real problem"? In fact, the only time they ever even mention racial injustice and police brutality is to complain about how a tiny minority of people respond to it. And, of course, when they're telling us that Martin Luther King wouldn't have rioted.
I'm starting to think these finger waggers just might have an altogether different agenda than they claim and it's got nothing to do with racial justice ...
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SideStep
(93 posts)
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,332 posts)
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)He said this:
"We can have a discussion about the tactical and strategic value of property destruction. We can have that discussion. Just as they had to have that discussion in South Africa and Nelson Mandela was part of that conversation and believed in sabotaging commercial property and state property... did not want to attack human life but did talk about property violence. We can have that discussion. But, you know who is not part of that discussion? Anyone who has not already committed to the struggle for racial justice and equity.
If you're in that struggle, then you're welcome to be part of that conversation, but if you're someone who didn't say anything when George Floyd was killed... You are not invited to the conversation. You are not part of the conversation. You are a vulture on the conversation. All of us who are part of this movement, we have this debate amongst ourselves all the time. What is the proper tactic? What is the proper strategy? What is the proper mix of protests, including potentially the threat of violent protest? What is the proper mix of electoral politics? What is the proper mix of all of those things? But, if you're not part of the movement, why are you talking?"
https://politicsdoneright.com/2020/05/tim-wise-discusses-george-floyds-murder-by-cop-in-minneapolis-racism-and-much-more/
still_one
(92,187 posts)folks are taking Martin Luther King's quotes out of context also
When MLK said "'A riot is the language of the unheard", he was NOT advocating violence, but explaining the reason for the anger
In fact your post is insinuating that those who are concerned about the looting have another agenda, and really don't care about racial justice.
So I guess that criticism must apply to Mayor Bottoms, President Obama, Representative Val Demings, Governor Cumo, Al Sharpton, etc. etc. etc.
I suspect a good number of folks concerned about this because they are worried how it will affect the election in November.
stopdiggin
(11,302 posts)to thwart looting and destruction in their own and other neighborhoods? Must be disappointed to know that they're not really with the "real" message.
still_one
(92,187 posts)
delisen
(6,043 posts)The poor often cannot afford rent much less the overpriced status goods in one of the upscale malls. So I do not think that people were looting "their own" community in those cases. In fact they are often not welcome to to even be inside.
People with disabilities, elderly people, homeless people as well as racial minorities are often questioned by mall security and sometimes reminded that that they are on private property. A favorite question of mall and shopping center security is: I've noticed you have been here awhile, when will you be leaving the property?
When people buy the status goods with name labels they are not buying quality in most cases--they are simply advertising that they are not "the other."
...and we should all realize by now that trickle down economics does not work and that a society is more important than its economic system. Our flawed economic system has been running our society instead of the other way around.
Mayors can be in a tough position-because of the unequal concentration of wealth. It takes a very aware and very tough and daring mayor to to bargain effectively on behalf of its poorest citizens.
still_one
(92,187 posts)reagan, though the republicans still push that agenda as though it was a success
I agree with your other points, though in the confines of this current strife, I don't think it is reason for the current looting
delisen
(6,043 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)stop spending so much of your time drawing attention to it and trying to get other people to spend all their time focusing on it with "yeah, but what about the LOOTING?! injections into threads that try to discuss the protests, and, instead, make more of an effort to draw attention to the racial injustice you claim to be so concerned about but don't think is getting enough attention?
And since you want Martin Luther King quoted in context, I will once again post his larger quote about rioting, which I've posted numerous times before but you seemed to have missed
And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213496531
still_one
(92,187 posts)post because I may not agree with it, as you are suggesting I do. I guess it must be my secret agenda.
delisen
(6,043 posts)I speak of what I know.
You may accept it or disagree but claiming I have said what I did not say is a form of lying.
I don't insinuate and my post reflects my experience on the Southside of Atlanta.
I said nothing about MLK
I don't engage in either/or thinking.
still_one
(92,187 posts)
maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)It ends the opportunity for evolution in the thinking of many whites; fear takes over.
"Fear is the mind killer." - F. Herbert
still_one
(92,187 posts)StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)They're just looking for excuses. And if looting stopped tomorrow, they'd find another excuse to justify being exactly who they already are.
maxsolomon
(33,327 posts)and not exactly a full-time Bohemian myself, I usually get somewhere discussing issues of race with him - until looting starts. Or a Cop gets injured.
But you're probably right; despite having voted for McGovern and Carter, he's always been that way and will never change; I just waste my time and exacerbate my Trump Depression trying to help him see differently.
Regardless, I'm not scolding anyone about looting and burning of police cars; I think riots are inevitable expression of Human anger - part of our Ape Nature. People who think that protest of injustice can be perfectly non-violent are hopelessly naïve. It never has been and never will be.
still_one
(92,187 posts)swing states
I saw an interview of Kasich and Nina Turner on CNN today, and while I am not a fan of either, they were right on in regard in how to address this. It involved setting up task a force to address the inequalities and systemic issues in the police departments and other areas of the community
They cited a specific case in 2004 where they did this
They didn’t go marginalizing the middle class of just looking for excuses not to
Why that isn’t being done immediately in Minnesota is beyond me, yet along why they haven’t arrested the other three officers. That is a big part of the problem right there
Codeine
(25,586 posts)to distract the conversation away from the real problem.” There is more fucking breath being wasted whining about broken windows at Target than any honest dialogue about a terrified man being slowly and deliberately murdered on camera in front of an audience.
Sickening, but entirely predictable.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)I notice the people doing it - including some on DU - are expressing considerably more anger and expending exponentially more time ad energy talking about the property damage than they have about police brutality and George Floyd's murder. And they are going from thread to thread trying to hijack discussions and draw attention from the "real problem" to starting arguments about looting.
When people say, "They're distracting from the real problem" and we answer with "OK, so let's talk about the real problem," the response tends to be "But the LOOTING!"
MoonlitKnight
(1,584 posts)Property crime is in no way equal to murder. Not just murder, but race based targeting and oppression that leads to murder.
Our government declared war on the first amendment because of protests about the denial of the most basic human rights. The right to exist.
malaise
(268,976 posts)That is all
delisen
(6,043 posts)In three short years we have been brought to our knees economically.
We now have 22 years of taking from the poor and middle class and giving to the already enriched who are also burdening our planet to the point of ruin.
The peace versus justice debate continues 
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)and the cause that people are dying from from the hands of the police. If anything these people are more contemptible than cops, its all about greed and personal gain.
They are destroying people's lives as few of any of the businesses will come back as NO insurance will be in play as "civil unrest" negates the policy.
THEY ARE CRIMINALS, each and every one and the democrats MUST condemn them. People of color must condemn them.
still_one
(92,187 posts)republicans are in control of the Senate. He asked Congress to take up measures which include police reform bills, outlawing chokeholds, banning the transfer of military weapons to police forces and establishing a uniform use of force standard. He said he would create a police oversight commission in his first 100 days as president.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/02/867671792/biden-to-condemn-trumps-protest-response-in-speech
crickets
(25,969 posts)and the various bad actors who show up to purposely sow mayhem in order to discredit the protestors' cause. The mayhem and the finger wagging are both attempts to undermine the legitimacy of that cause, to distract from it, and to blame and punish people for speaking out.
Finger waggers may not think about it at the time while they moan about the property damage, but that is what they are doing: undermining the expression of legitimate grievances and blaming people for speaking out.
K&R for the post and the discussion.
Nevilledog
(51,094 posts)
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)looting distracts from the purpose of the protests and I’ve been active in my city regarding issues of racial and gender justice since the 70’s.
I participated in a peaceful protest on Friday that was usurped by a bunch of Friday night partiers who smashed windows and destroyed property despite being asked to stop by people who have been putting their necks on the line for racial justice for years.
Those who don’t condemn looting should post their addresses and invite the looters to their homes and businesses. I’m sure the criminals would appreciate that.
In the meantime, I’ll keep working in my community to make it a better place for all its citizens.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 2, 2020, 05:02 PM - Edit history (1)
The problem is, as Dr. King said, focusing on the looting and not on the injustice that protesters are trying to draw attention to they are being is morally irresponsible. And it's ridiculous for people to keep whining about what a "distraction" the looting is while they themselves are going out of their way to draw attention to and amplify it, thereby contributing to the very distraction they're condemning. And often those same people are so busy talking about the looting, they barely mention the peaceful protests.
If they don't want the very small amount of violent behavior to be a distraction, stop being distracted by it and stop trying to distract everyone else. And if they really care that the racial injustice message is being overwhelmed, then they need to amplify THAT message.
But the obsessive focus on the looting - some of which is an infinitesimal part of the protests and most of which is not even part of the protests - is pure bull.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)one of those referred to in the OP...
You DO expend time, effort and energy to combat racism and DO NOT only complain about looting.
You’re good then, the OP was not referring to you. Congratulations.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)You know it’s bad. I know it’s bad. Joe Trumpvoter knows it’s bad — there’s literally no reason whatsoever to even discuss it.
The focus of the conversation needs to be about police brutality and murder under the color of authority because it’s increasingly evident that - unlike our above example - not everyone has come around to the realization that these things are wrong.
Given the importance of the latter I just don’t feel the need to give two shits about the former.
Sewa
(1,255 posts)Keep up the good fight.
Progressive Law
(617 posts)
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,181 posts)...but then do nothing at all to address mental illness.
