Birthers: What are your best responses to their idiocy?

[Tennessee Gal]

A new one occurred to me. At least I have not seen or heard it before.

Considering the lengths the Republicans in Congress went to in an attempt to remove Bill Clinton from office, why haven't they pursued the citizenship of Obama if there is any truth to the birther claims? The right wing began investigating Clinton through any means possible before he even took office and they impeached him. Why haven't they done the same to Obama? Surely, they would have if there were any reputable evidence that he was not legally eligible to be President.

I know the birther claims are totally implausible.

Has anyone here had success with birthers and what is the best path to approach them?

Just looking for a little help, please.

[TheMastersNemesis]

1. Not Possible The Way I See It

I do not see how you deal with someone who is deranged and demented. During the Revolutionary period they would have been tarred and feathered.

[Tennessee Gal]

2. I agree that many are deranged and demented, but not all.

There might be a few who can be reached by reason and logic.

It may be fruitless to try, but I just may attempt it with one or two.

I think the best way to do it is to ask questions for which they have no answer. Put a little seed of doubt in their mind and maybe they will begin to think.

[deutsey]

14. Press them to give you evidence for what they say

They can't just "feel" that Obama isn't an American citizen. They have to produce evidence that passes the smell test and substantiates their claims.

[gollygee]

3. I don't really engage

except to say "He did release his birth certificate. You can probably google and find a copy."

[CakeGrrl]

43. This -nt

[hobbit709]

4. The couple I ran into got this simple question from me

"Are you naturally born stupid or did you have to take lessons?'
I have no patience with idiots.

[Tennessee Gal]

5. LOL! I don't think that will work!

But I do appreciate the comment and the chuckle!

[mercuryblues]

6. When I was in FL

I had the privilege of sitting next to one. The shop had CNN on and talking about something Obama had done that was positive. [I forget what] I guess that was all it took for her to go off on a rant about his birth certificate.

Being my cordial self....I informed her that his birth certificate is not only on the web, but sheriff Joe Arparo from Arizona, you know the guy republicans all love, sent the state's AG and several others to HI to prove Obama was not born there. After spending 10's of thousands of dollars, they went back to AZ with their tail between their legs. It seems it is there and legit. Google it.

After the lady left, the owner of the shop apologized for "that one, she is always like that" I let her know that all the crap she said was nothing but thinly veiled bigotry and racism.


I believe we should call them out on it and expose them. Not that it will change their mind, but to embarrass them enough they will crawl back under their rocks and shut up. Make them think twice before they spew their hate in public.

[Tennessee Gal]

10. Excellent response! May I use it?

[mercuryblues]

16. please do.

Like I said, changing their minds is impossible. Shutting them up is not. Basically they are the same ones who stocked up on duct tape. When confronted about their horseshit [and most know it is horseshit] they will slink off.

[Tennessee Gal]

22. That's funny! I know two who stocked up on duct tape and plastic after 9/11!

[CJCRANE]

7. What I find interesting is that the birthers and tea partiers etc.

get a lot of their talking points from people who were born outside America and arrived fairly recently.

One of the original tea partiers and birthers was Orly Taitz who is from Moldavia.

Then there is Dinesh D'Souza who is originally from India.

Plus the ex-terrorist guy at the Values Voters summit who is from Lebanon and of course the topical film maker from Egypt.

Of course they will say that it proves that they're not racist, but it just seems strange coming from a party that claims to be against immigrants and foreign influence.

It seems like anyone can just turn up, tell them what they want to hear and make a living from it.

[Tennessee Gal]

11. Good points .... I may use some of that.

Thanks.

[B Calm]

8. Obama's mother was from Kansas

[HughBeaumont]

9. "Ah, so you're one of those 'President Ni&&er' people . . . . I'm outta here."

. . .. and really, that IS what it's all about.

[davidpdx]

12. I believe next year after Obama is re-elected`

(because he will be) the Republicans are going to go for the jugular if they still control the US House. The reason won't matter and it won't be true but they will still try. Now if we get the US House back then they are out of luck.

[WilliamPitt]

13. Winning.

It's the best medicine.

[Tigress DEM]

58. Hi Will!! Nice to see you.

[Tennessee Gal]

15. Interesting: Even this would not be enough for them. That is why I would like a simple response.

Joshua A. Wisch, Special Assistant to the Attorney General of Hawaii released this statement:

The State of Hawaii has repeatedly confirmed the indisputable evidence of President Obama’s birth in Hawaii. An exhaustive accounting of this is provided on the State Department of Health (DOH) website (http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html). When this issue last arose in May, the Washington Post noted that “the Hawaii Department of Health has released both the short and long forms of the president’s birth certificate; and that all this information, along with clear-as-a-bell explanations, is available to the public online.” (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-arizona-the-birther-plot-plays-on/2012/05/21/gIQAV9tYgU_story.html?tid=pm_pop)

President Obama was born in Honolulu, and his birth certificate is valid.

Regarding the latest allegations from a sheriff in Arizona, they are untrue, misinformed, and misconstrue Hawaii law. The purpose of section 338-17.8, Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS), is to accommodate foreign-born individuals whose parents were residents of Hawaii but were temporarily outside of this state due to employment or military service. Similar to section 338-20.5, HRS, which provides for a certificate of foreign birth, anyone who receives a birth certificate under this section would have noted on their birth certificate the physical location of their actual birth. It does not confer citizenship, which is, of course, a power of the federal government.

We also note that section 338-17.8 was not passed until 1982, so it cannot apply to President Obama, who was born at the Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu in 1961, as is reflected on his certificate of live birth, a copy of which can be viewed on the White House website, a link to which is provided on DOH’s website.

Vital records in Hawaii have some of the highest levels of privacy protection in the nation. Not only are Hawaii’s vital records some of the best managed, but they also have some of the strongest restrictions on access to prevent identity theft and fraud.

Joshua A. Wisch
Special Assistant to the Attorney General
State of Hawaii
Dept. of the Attorney General
425 Queen Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813

[ladjf]

17. Desperate, disingenuous racism. nt

[malaise]

18. There's a very simple response

Tell them to shut their MF racists mouths and stop exposing their ignorance. STFU idiot also works.

[RagAss]

19. I smile politely at the deranged.

[lunatica]

20. Ask them if they belong to

[lastlib]

21. The brilliant Animal House line:

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go thru life, son."

[HopeHoops]

23. "Where you there? No? Then how can you be so sure?"

[MrScorpio]

24. Just stipulate that there is no explanation that they'll accept as proof of his citizenship

There's no point in beating around the bush with these rocket scientists.

[Tennessee Gal]

25. That is probably the wisest thing to do. Thanks. nt

[mick063]

26. This issue hurts their cause more than they could know.

Primarily because there are is a long list of actions needed to improve our country and chasing after birth certificates does nothing toward that. It is purely political in nature and does nothing to improve our way of life.

Then there is guilt by association. If folks believe the birther issue is misguided, yet the issue remains at the fore front of Tea Party thinking, one must wonder how misguided the Tea Party is on other issues.

Finally, the GOP politicians are going to great lengths to secure a "base" that would be voting for them anyway. To make references to citizen status is "dog whistle" that is transparent to every critical thinker. Traditionally, the GOP has reached out to moderates by avoiding extremists within their party. The current GOP panders to the extreme fringes more than in any other election cycle in my lifetime. This is definitely a demonstration of how Fox News has changed the GOP. Keeping the birther issue alive for this long is a perfect example. In short, they are alienating folks that they have typically courted if only out of necessity. The current GOP party is so incompetent, they can't comprehend this. The GOP is doing permanent damage to their cause because they went "all in" with Fox News, Donald Trump, and the Tea Party.


Edited to add:

Perhaps my last sentence is not entirely accurate because I don't believe the GOP co-opted the Tea Party and Fox News. I believe the Tea Party and Fox News co-opted the GOP. If that is the case, there is a chance for a third party to emerge to fill the void left by the GOP. There are two ways to "save" the GOP:

1) Take a hard turn back to the center.
2) Fox News begins trending as a non credible information source across a large cross section of the US populace.

I personally believe both will happen, but the GOP must take a few beatings before it starts to happen.

[Tennessee Gal]

30. That is very sound reasoning, especially your last sentence.

Yes, this country has enough problems. The Republicans would be a lot better off if they would stop attacking everything Obama and work within the system to make things better.

[michael811]

27. I start questioning Romney's citizenship

What birthers do to Obama's records and past can be done to any person. Romney had a father born in Mexico,Romney's birth certificate he released isn't a legal document and Romney hasn't released any of the documents that birthers complain that Obama hasn't

[Tigress DEM]

28. Long form and short form on the Whitehouse.gov site

NOW with the film 2016 they are saying his adoption by his step father makes him a non-citizen



http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

[Tennessee Gal]

32. I am certain no birther would trust anything available on a White House web site.

But thank you for posting it.

[Cirque du So-What]

29. My response

usually runs along the lines of, 'behold the power! Obama wields so much influence that he got elected President of the United States despite being born in Kenya as you insist! Resistance is futile! With the government - which, last time I looked, includes the full might of the US military - in his pocket, you may as well go home and hide under your bed!'

[abelenkpe]

31. Mother, brother, uncle are all birthers

They swear they have done exhaustive research (aka read books full of lies by snakeoil salesmen looking to profit off of their bigotry and hatred) and that I'm the deluded fool for not seeing that President Obama is illegitimate. See, while they are all high school dropouts my graduate degree and success in my career has brainwashed me and rendered me unable to see that president Obama is a manchurian candidate sent to create a socialist paradise here in the US. My accusation that they are just a bunch of hate filled bigots is more proof of my brainwashing and not based on a lifetime growing up with them hearing them disparage minorities and women.


Truly. There is no reasoning with a birther. If I could have them committed I would. Instead my mother is home schooling my sisters kids. Cause y'know, she's so qualified. Her little charges now email me forwarded bigoted anti immigrant, anti women, anti evolution nonsense. but I'm the one who is brainwashed...

[Tennessee Gal]

34. That is horrible.

What would they say if you asked them why the Republicans who now control the House have not launched an investigation into this matter with the hopes of impeaching or forcing Obama to resign?

[abelenkpe]

37. RINOs are blocking such efforts

And this is why it is important to elect more tea party representatives and senators.

It's exhausting. Good luck attempting to sway birthers. Please let me know if you find a successful argument. I'm going to bookmark this thread. Thanks for starting it!

[Tennessee Gal]

45. Wow! They really have convoluted logic.

It's Obama's fault. It's the Democrats fault. It's the fault of the news media. And when all that fails, it's the fault of the Republicans in name only. All they have to do is elect more idiots like them. Does that about cover it?

Good grief.

[msanthrope]

41. A strategy: Tell them how terrible it is that the mainstream Republicans like Romney have abandoned

them, and have refused to make this an issue.

Tell them how terrible it was that both Bush and Cheney failed the Republican party and America when they refused to out the 'usurper.' (there's a video of Cheney in Senate certifiying the electoral college--the freepers/birthers read all sorts of shit into his expressions.)

Tell them how the only person who seems to be speaking truth to power is Ron Paul. They should tell their birther friends.

TO THE JURY--I'm not advocating for a 3rd party--i'm advocating that non-Obama voters vote in a manner that takes votes away from Romney.

[Tennessee Gal]

46. Did you forget that Romney recently made a swipe at birtherism with his so-called

joke that nobody had asked to see his birth certificate?

[kestrel91316]

50. I don't think that was a swipe at birtherism. I think it was intended to insult

Obama. Rmoney is white, so he doesn't need to provide his birth certificate. Only uppity n-----s do.

[kimbutgar]

59. You have my deepest sympathy

It's really something that people who lack critical thinking skills think they know everything. I've found that as i grow older there is so much more that I need to learn. Your family left their thinking caps at the front door while watching fox and listening to rush.

[porphyrian]

33. Simple, tell them their best bet is to vote Libertarian. n/t

[mahina]

36. oh, 10 points.

[mahina]

35. My birth certain is just like the President's.

The State of Hawaii issues that document. I have the same one.

[Hatchling]

38. Oh, I just laugh derisively.

And then I say: You really don't believe that crap, do you?" and laugh some more.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. My best response to the birther idiocy is 100% effective ...

1) laugh

2) either walk away or turn the channel.

[treestar]

40. Repeat that Obama has produced the BC repeatedly

And birther cases have been defeated in court, Orly Taitz has even been sanctioned.

Then wonder aloud at whether Mitt has done the same. Where's his BC? Don't we need confirmation?

We also need to see Biden's and Ryan's as they are a heartbeat away. (I don't let them get away with the well, they are not running for President crap, because they are running for an office specifically meant to provide a spare. Therefore they need to be fully qualified).

It will soon become embarrassingly apparent that there's a reason they don't question the birth of those others in the US. Really harp on Biden, because politically they do not support him. How come it's not of concern to them to prove it? He could have been born in Ireland.

[Tennessee Gal]

47. I like that strategy! nt

[slackmaster]

42. I've never met one, so I don't care

I don't bother trying to refute the fringe theories of strangers.

[octothorpe]

49. I haven't even met any online. I mean, came across websites and forums of people I don't "e-know"

but even the hard core conservatives I know are real people, don't seem to buy into that shit. They tend to make jokes about it, but they don't really believe it. Although, I live in Texas and there was billboard sign off highway 35 between Waco and Temple that said "Where's the birth certificate?".... Someone obviously paid for that, so they do exist somewhere. Oh, last time I drove by that billboard it had a picture of Obama that said something like "Socialist Traitor." Who would spend money on that shit?

[RB TexLa]

44. Just laugh in thier face

[Ghost in the Machine]

48. I just say "oh, you're one of *those* ignorant idiots, huh?" Then I question their mentality...

.... laugh at them and ridicule them. Then again, I'm 6'3", 250lbs, long haired, tattooed up and look like a mean-assed biker.. your mileage may vary..

East Tenneseean here


Peace,

Ghost

[Deep13]

51. point and laugh nt

[southernyankeebelle]

52. No matter how much you cry about it friend the courts have upheld that Obama is a citizen.

What you and your haters need to do is get over it. Smile and walk away. Every time they mention it repeat the courts have upheld that Obama was born in HI and is a citizen. Get over it. repeat, repeat

[Tennessee Gal]

56. I found this, but unfortunately the decision was based on

ineligibility to file the suit.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/06/11/Supreme-Court-rejects-birthers-appeal/UPI-81031339433097/



And the lower court ruling was that the plaintiffs had not suffered any injury the court could fix.

I don't think either one would serve to silence or convince the birthers.

[southernyankeebelle]

61. He would have never been able to get a passport without a birth certificate.

[Kalidurga]

53. One word makes them cringe and flap their mouths open and shut with no words coming out...

So.

Or, "so what", if you want a more lengthy response.

It is short sweet and they have no idea what to say in the face of your indifference. Somehow this makes them furious though.

You can maybe diffuse the theory with this. Say, I am I glad we have a President that is smart enough to have documents that will pass the extensive background checks he had to go through to get security clearance. Some of them think that tactic is funny.

[Tennessee Gal]

57. Yes, the background check for security clearance.

If he could pass that and the Republican majority House has done nothing about this, why on earth do they still believe the conspiracy theories?

It is a conundrum.

[aquart]

54. How do you justify such desperately transparent racism?

Aren't you embarrassed?

NEVER ENGAGE THEM IN THEIR CONVERSATION. DERAIL IT.

[catbyte]

55. It is futile. And you just know that the whole transcripts bs are the same

Nothing damning so they MUST be forged. These people are truly pathetic. My advice is to save yourself the aggravation & just walk away. They refuse to believe anything that doesn't fit in their narrow, delusional worldview.

[kimbutgar]

60. My birther question to them is how can 2 poor college students afford to fly back

And forth fron Hawaii and Kenya in time to place a birth announcement in the Hawaiian newspapers? (neglecting to admit birth information was provided by the birth hospital) In those days people didn't have credit cards to charge airfare and the trip probably took 3-4 days with a new born baby. And a white woman with a black man on an airplane would have been harassed and frowned at.Please anyone with a brain or common sense knows the birther thing is outright racism.