General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJust came home from church and we are furious!
We belong to a Catholic parish in a retirement community in Florida. While my husband was driving home, I read the church bulletin. An article in the bulletin started out beautifully but then became disgustingly political. The article said that because so many young people fell for the Hope and Change in 2008, in reality it was "Hype and Lies." You tasted "socialism" and have seen evil face to face. The article also called the 2008 election the "Great Lie."
I plan to write to the priest and tell him why we are leaving the church. Politics have no place in church whether it be from the pulpit or the bulletin. If the church, any church, wants to be political, then they should give up their tax exempt status.
I couldn't help but think that if the church is so against socialism, then the parishioners shouldn't be driving to Mass on the socialist roads. Also, because it is a retirement community, most of the people are on SS and Medicare. On Monday I plan to go to the local Obama campaign office and volunteer my services, something I should have done before now.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Frances
(8,579 posts)in the face of such a negative experience!
If they are politicizing in church , thy should be paying TAXES ! After all ,they rely on public services just like everyone else .
I left the cath. church a long time ago because of their demeaning attitude towards women .
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)...your church just out of nowhere decided to take this hard right stance. Hadn't you noticed them sort of trending in that direction?
TexasBushwhacker
(20,787 posts)Unless it was written by him, I wouldn't assume he approved the article for publication. Churcg newsletters are usually put together by a volunteer(s).
pittipat
(4 posts)I have sent a letter to the priest and the bishop in Orlando
xmas74
(29,810 posts)At my church it isn't our pastor or associate pastor who puts together the newsletter-it's a volunteer, usually one of the retired women of the church. I wouldn't be surprised if this is similar.
If it were me I'd call the parish priest before resigning and find out if this was approved by him.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)Churches cannot do that. I resent the fact that my tax monies subsidize people like that.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)Or STHU.
Astazia
(262 posts)K&R What happened to Church & fuckin' state. I am so glad I found DU. If I hadn't, my head would've definitely exploded!!
It truly is a shame that spiritual paths are interrupted by the ignorant. Such a shame. We've all or most of us have been there. *sigh*
raccoon
(31,535 posts)
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)A bit off topic, related to your comment, Kim Barker wrote a piece for ProPublica dated 8/19/12. It is titled "Kim Barker's excellent investigative article for ProPublica, "How Nonprofits Spend Millions on Elections and Call It Public Welfare".
While the focus is on "SuperPacs", there are religious institutions who abuse their tax exempt status, imho.
icymist
(15,888 posts)
xxqqqzme
(14,887 posts)That is disgusting. I'm surprised it is so overt.....well maybe I'm not. the rabid religious rong is all about flaunting their newly elevated lawless status.
dotymed
(5,610 posts)I am a lapsed Episcopalian. When I did attend, we were about peace and helping others. The Priest was also a friend. We still had some wealthy attendees (Episcopalians used to be made of many wealthy people and others who were (are) rather liberal in their beliefs).
While they did not publish the fact in their newsletter, most of the congregation were progressives who worked and cared about those less fortunate.
The Episcopal religion is now a dying religion. Yes, the American Diocese began ordaining women Priests and was scandalized last decade when they ordained an openly gay Priest. (Yes, Priests are allowed to marry, this is the remnants of the Catholic church thrown out of England by Henry VIII).
Well, the outcry from other "Christian churches, especially the Catholics really helped the demise of Episcopalians. The only organized religion that made any sense to me.
avebury
(11,087 posts)But make sure to keep a copy as evidence.
mzteris
(16,232 posts)contact/send a copy to the organization "Americans United for the Separation of Church and State" http://www.au.org/
and they'll do the heavy lifting on reporting the Church.
nanabugg
(2,198 posts)
ryan_cats
(2,061 posts)OK, this is a bad thing but, playing Devil's advocate, consider they said that President Obama was doing a great job and should be re-elected? Would you urge them to turn them into the IRS then? If not, why?
I'm a Christian but in college, I wrote a pretty vicious paper on why the Catholic Church should pay taxes. Got an A as well. Not a fan of Catholics when you consider that 90% of their services and views are not anywhere in the Bible.
Look up transubstantiation. It means that as you consume the consecrated cracker (communion cracker) it actually turns into the flesh of Christ. This is Catholic doctrine.
Two things:
1) It's testable, try it with someone who has been on a fast. If it is flesh (I don't believe it is, it's nowhere in the Bible) then we should see tissue and not cracker pieces. As a plus, if it was flesh, we could clone Jesus! (I'm kidding).
2) Jesus said do this in remembrance of me, not eat my actual flesh and drink my real blood, just look at the end of Mathew, Mark and Luke but it's not in John.
The actual text in Luke 22:17-20, from the King's James version is: #17 Jesus: "And he took the cup and gave thanks, and said, "Take this and divide it amongst yourselves. 18: For I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God shall come. 19: And he took bread and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them saying, "This is my body which is given for you: this, do in remembrance of me." 20: Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new Testament in my blood which is shed for you. From my reading (and millions of others) he is talking about a method of remembering the sacrifice Christ did in propitiation of our sins.
It sounds gross but if he really wanted us to eat his actual flesh and drink his real blood, that is easily accomplished yet he didn't do it.
But there is an excellent passage: John #13:34 A new commandment I give unto you. that you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. #13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are all my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Unfortunately, I have not been able to determine whether these two new commandments supersede the over 600 (that's right not ten but over 600 in the Pentateuch) or are added to them. The problem with all of these commandments bedsides being impossible to follow in a lifetime, they can only condemn you, they cannot save you. That's why Jesus appeared.
While I have considerably mellowed after around 30 years, I still see things that I think are outside of what should be tax exempt and I am a non-denominational Protestant who attends Church twice a week.
I mentioned a diss of the President by the Pastor and the Pastor said, he thought I was right and he toned it down (this was in 2009) but now that the election is here, the rhetoric has ratcheted up.
The funny thing is, Christians do NOT believe that Mormons worship the same Christ the rest of Christianity does. They (Mormons) have a saying that goes like, "As man is God was and as God is, man can become." I might not have it exactly quoted but you get the idea. First of all, I can barely run my life yet I'm supposed to get my own planet (seriously) and be god over it. Ask a Mormon missionary about the planet Kolob.
Then there is the real kicker, until, I believe, sometime in the '70s, the Mormon hierarchy reversed their stance on black people. They used to believe that the reason they were black was because they were marked by their god much like Cain was marked. I guess all those blacks with their 10% tithe caused them to have a 'vision' that allowed blacks in church and this is during the 70s!
I know a lot of conservative Christians and Mitten's Mormonism seriously bothers them. People thought since JFK was a Catholic, that he would accept orders from the Pope. Well, in Mormonism, the 12 apostles are still alive and I have no idea how much influence they have over their star members. I know a lot of Mormons and as for lifestyle, they leave Christians in the dust. Their facade is one of a caring and believing people. However, you go to Temple a lot as a Mormon.
This is anecdotal but an atheist friend lived in Salt Lake City and he said they had people in supermarkets to ensure that Mormons didn't buy tobacco, alcohol or even caffeine. Sounds creepy and unbelievable but he swore it was true. It appears, that once you become a Mormon, you might as well be a Borg because they take up a lot of your live's time and they control you such as not being able to drink alcohol. While I can understand that my body is my temple and I shouldn't defile it, it's my problem, so why do they have monitors?
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)This is a thread about the separation of church and state, and not about Catholic dogma (which, you might want to note, rests on the Bible and Tradition, not just the protestant doctrine of sola scriptura.)
From what I see, the Catholic Church in America is very influenced by its Protestant and fundamentalist sister churches, and is much more political than the larger Catholic Church. Not that the Catholic Church at large isn't political, but in the US it's very party oriented, as in anti-Democratic party and pro-Republican. In much of the rest of the world, the Church is political on issues, not parties.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Ask not what you're country can do, ask what YOU can do for your county. And it's sitting in your lap right now. Proof that your church is engaging in politics and needs to lose its tax exempt status.
SleeplessinSoCal
(9,789 posts)IRS investigation
On the Sunday before the 2004 Presidential election, Rector emeritus George Regas preached a sermon opposing the Iraq War. The premise of the sermon was a debate between George W. Bush and John Kerry moderated by Jesus Christ. In the sermon Regas supposed that, "Jesus [would say], 'Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.'"[1]
Complaints about the sermon led to an investigation by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) into whether the sermon voided the church's tax-exempt status as a prohibited political endorsement. The church has responded by claiming that the IRS is selectively enforcing the rule by not pursuing actions against conservative churches. In response to the investigation, Rector Ed Bacon gave a sermon called, "Neighbor Love is Never Neutral."[2]
In September 2006, the IRS issued a summons against All Saints demanding that the church turn over documents related to the controversial sermon. All Saints Church's response was that the IRS was violating the church's First Amendment rights and that the Church would challenge the IRS's actions in a summons enforcement proceeding in the United States Federal District Court. The church then established a charitable fund to raise money for its legal defense.
The Pasadena Star News reported that All Saints would remain defiant against the IRS. Rector Ed Bacon asserted that political activism was "in the DNA" of the church.
Result of IRS investigation
On September 25, 2007, CCH reported in Federal Tax Day:
On September 10, 2007, the IRS notified the congregation that it was closing its investigation. The IRS determined that the sermon was political campaign intervention. It offered no explanation as to why the sermon violated the ban on political intervention. The IRS also did not indicate if it intended to impose excise taxes under Code Sec. 4955 [see 26 U.S.C. § 4955] on the church or its officers. However, it did not revoke the church's exempt status.[9]
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)to campaign like that.
riverbendviewgal
(4,334 posts)I believe in keeping religion and government separate...if they are in the church than that church does not qualify for tax exemption.
that is that.
Let us know what your pastor says to this. and please do ask him what does he think the IRS will say to that little written sermon?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)
20score
(4,769 posts)These churches are out of control.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)You should scan that into the computer so that we can read it.
It also makes me wonder if a copy shouldn't be forwarded to the IRS ... perhaps that church would lose its tax exempt status for what sounds like a clearly partisan appeal/argument.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)keep the original. Things have a way of getting lost.
JHB
(37,500 posts)In fact, if you asked I'm sure they'd give you a whole stack.
Tennessee Gal
(6,160 posts)
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,936 posts)Well technically, no they aren't you're right. But if you think the IRS will do anything about it you're nuts. High profile Bishops have been saying stupid shit like this for years, nothing happens to them. They know they're immune to the law.
The Wielding Truth
(11,423 posts)
gholtron
(376 posts)Also remind the priest that Jesus never preached politics in the synagogue and what the Ryan plan would do for the poor.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They have a whistleblower line, you could call 'em, if you'd like.
Send them a copy of that bulletin. You could even make some money, and donate it to good causes!
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Whistleblower---Informant-Award
Mponti
(170 posts)
PatSeg
(49,759 posts)to any local newspapers.
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)and the Parish Council and as was stated elsewhere a LTTE of your local newspaper. If the parish has a FB page post a copy there and cc the Diocesan Office. I would make just a whole lot of noise. If you want action, you need to hit them from multiple sources.
When I am pissed as in this situation, I calmly tell the person with whom I interacting, that I shall file a complaint with every Federal, State & Local agency that has any possible jurisdiction as it is so very easy to do via email. It's just a touch of a button and then they can deal with the inquiries from those agencies.
MADem
(135,425 posts)2on2u
(1,843 posts)later it went from zero to 20, I'd say you struck a nerve and not a small one at that.
Duppers
(28,260 posts)Whoops. I had just reposted one of your links, rug. Sorry. My phone didn't show the entire page on au.org.
Me bad.
UTUSN
(72,925 posts)intervene, it's free speech doncherknow. I say, make religions PAY TAXES like everybody else.
southern baptist preachers tell their flock who to vote for, and 90% do what preach says. No questions asked. Hell all churches are political hotbeds.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)send them the bulletin anyway. They definitely can't do anything about a problem they don't know about and if they don't act that is on them and not you that nothing was done. I can't believe any church should support Romney. Lies are supposed to be tools of the devil and Romney uses those tools everyday. I don't believe he ever speaks the truth even when it's more convenient. He probably lied about peanut butter sandwiches and chocolate milk being his favorite snack.
citizen blues
(595 posts)If enough of us report such abuses, the IRS will be more likely to listen.
You might want to submit a Letter to the Editor of your local paper. You are probably not the only one offended by a political statement in a church bulletin. It might help others come forward and speak out as well.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Take no prisoners!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Convents and monasteries are all socialist, actually communist in how they function. I think you should take this up with your parish priest and if he's at the bottom of this, and not just some underling that put out the bulletin, go to the diocese. You don't need to leave the Church because of one bad apple, but you should object to this. Do remind them that they need to remember that gospel about rendering to Caesar what its Caesar's and to God what is God's. This is Christ's teaching on the separation of Church and State. There is also that other gospel about Jesus chasing the money changers out of the temple, which is what you seem to have there, a political operative, who needs to be chased out of the temple.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)and thank you for having your own mind.
Grey
(1,581 posts)at least, if they believe in the bible they should be.
People working together for the common good, The priest is wrong.
pasto76
(1,589 posts)you never know when the straw will break.
you do know that not sending anything, not saying anything, the straw will never break.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)you can't have people pulling together to achieve common goals, that would be socialist. The church needs to pull itself up by its bootstraps.
monmouth
(21,078 posts)control and its sins, etc. I was furious, got up and walked right down the middle of the aisle out the Church door. I did hear a rustle behind me and saw about six other women with husbands in tow right behind me. Have not been back since. It did feel good.
virgogal
(10,178 posts)calm my nerves if the 6 kids were getting to me. Valium. Can you believe it?
Walked out,had my tubes tied,and never looked back.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)There is only a few hours and little space in bulletins and to fill that time and space is a failure on our churches, this is a time to tell of Jesus and his love and not the hate I hear too much of these days.
LibGranny
(711 posts)save the bulletin and send it to IRS. The church should lose its tax exempt status!
patrice
(47,992 posts)unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)My sister (she is very involved in her parrish) told me that the majority of Dems in her parrish registered republican during 2004 in protest regarding birth control. I told her if she voted for bush she should be ashamed of herself. She insisted she didn't but I don't believe her, all she could talk about during those elections was the church's stance on bc and abortion. Funny she only had three children and I'm sure she used more than the rhythm method that is sanctioned by the church.
patrice
(47,992 posts)understanding/desires. So much else that you'd think they actually do care about at least as much as they do about fetuses, but they are so uninformed and their understanding is so fucking shallow that they don't get the relationships between fetuses and anything else.
THINK how much further we'd be on everything to do with energy if Kerry would have won and how much that fact would have helped everything else, but . . .
You know, I think certain ones amongst the 1% globally knew for quite a long time that the Derivative Crash was DUE and there are those who have been trying to manage that situation to their best benefit, despite what their management might do to others of the 1%, or maybe even BECAUSE of what they might be able to accomplish against others of the 1%, not to mention their disregard for anyone and everyone else who is not part of their hegemony - so - if Kerry had won, who knows what about when the whole Derivative Crash might have been used against him, just like we saw this last 4 years.
Though maybe it would have been better for the whole financial corruption thing to have been recognized by the public earlier???
eridani
(51,907 posts)--Scwhartzenegger were pro-choice. IOKIYAR
freshwest
(53,661 posts)That kind of low down language is not what I've come to expect from the more nuanced missives of those educated in Catholic universities. More like the rantings of Liberty University or the Glenn Beck University as he's designated his particular cult.
I suggest you keep, copy and spread that bulletin far and wide and ask why they are promoting the team that will end social services. Maybe you could invite the 'Nuns on the Bus' to come to your parish and enlighten the flock about how the priest (diocese, or whoever is ultimately responsible) is disrespecting the social mission of church workers. Remember, one of their number spoke at the DNC:
Nun: Romney-Ryan budget fails moral test
You might ask the person who issued this, if they are for all of Ryan's pro-death budget. Since cutting off Medicaid is death for the majority covered by it and it is equally divided between the disabled and elderly without other means to live. Will they support the death penalty next?
Remind them Obama has sworn that as long as he is President, Social Security will not be privatized on his watch. But that is a Romney promise. That scheme has left the elderly in other nations without a dime to support them in their old age.
I applaud your positive action in this matter by going to work for OFA and hope others in your parish will follow your example. But I understand if you don't feel you can come out publicly against the priest, etc. You still have to live there and don't want to lose your friends.
Best wishes and thanks for informing us of this.
classof56
(5,376 posts)Your words are right on point, and I shall be using them. Thanks again!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)If you wanted to "package" a story that the media would likely cover--find other people in your congregation who agree with you about the bulletin being inappropriate. Call local media and tell them you have the bulletin and several parish members who are upset.
They will most likely cover this story.
I think it's time that we start fighting back HARD against this nonsense. It's great that you are planning to write a letter and voicing your opinion. However, that won't make them stop.
Showing this parish that behaviors like that--will get a reporter microphone in their faces--will have a significant impact.
defacto7
(13,695 posts)Most clergy want a mic in their face. It's a pulpit, and the local media will give equal time to rebuttal, maybe even lean toward the clergy. I've seen this too many times.
You can make your own stance without putting to the media. If the media in the meantime decides to pick it up, you have more of a chance to get a fair shake.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)Most churches post their bulletins at their websites. I'd like to take a look at this one. Maybe we can publicize their campaigning against the President. Take it public and see what falls out.
spartan61
(2,091 posts)St. Mark the Evangelist Catholic Church Summerfield, FL, and then click on church bulletin for Sept. 16, you can find it on page 9. Someone on this site also found it and put in the link. It must be going around churches all over America.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)MineralMan
(148,188 posts)organization called the Gray-Haired Brigade. It's everywhere on the Internet right now. Often titled, as your bulletin had it as "Gray-Haired Geezers" it's been appearing as a letter to the editor, on web sites, and in many other places, including your church bulletin. There's a campaign out there to circulate it far and wide.
You'll start seeing the identical thing on Facebook and everywhere you go.
Since it isn't an official statement by your church, but was posted in another way, there's probably nothing much you can do about it. But, it's just another internet email meme that is going to be everywhere.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Grey+Haired+Geezers&sugexp=chrome,mod=16&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#q=Gray+Haired+Geezers&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=imvns&psj=1&ei=igtWUOLaL8bByQGI_oAo&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=e0ad5b0b13e28188&biw=1138&bih=529
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)At the very least, I would hope that it motivates a lot of people there to reevaluate WHY they support that church at all.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)If a church includes something like that as a letter from a parishioner, which wasn't done in the newsletter in question, they'd be probably OK with the IRS. In this particular case, the church included it without any note or name, so it could easily be interpreted as an official communication. Trouble is that it's iffy, and probably wouldn't meet the IRS's criteria for action.
This kind of crap gets circulated everywhere by such organizations, and then appears in smaller newspapers as letters to the editor, with some local adding his or her name to it. It's the bane of LTTE editors everywhere. They publish a letter that they think is original, only to find out that everyone else is publishing the same chain letter. They hate them, mostly.
As soon as I saw the church bulletin, I recognized the letter, so I did a Google search for it, and found literally hundreds of hits on it. That means that it's on its way everywhere, and soon, you'll be seeing it wherever you go. Viral distribution.
The right is very good at that stuff, and they do it all the time. This one is timed to reach its peak right around the election. Watch for it in something you read soon.
CitizenPatriot
(3,783 posts)was propaganda and if they are willing to publish a rebuttal and clarification for the entire church?
If only these folks were called to task when they pulled this stuff, maybe they'd start to think twice. Some of them are duped, I'm sure. I get enough people asking me about right wing emails that are clearly debunked on Snopes to wonder.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)church. Given what it is, the IRS isn't going to be interested. It has to be very blatant before they'll do anything.
m.a.h.
(1 post)It would be interesting to know the actual origin of this screed.
I found it attributed to two different authors at these sites:
http://www.alandcalledamerica.com/the-grey-haired-brigade
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/166505006_Letter_to_the_Editor__Seniors_are_taking_back_America.html
crunch60
(1,412 posts)Looks like some Right Wing. Karl Rove, tea party propaganda crappola. check out this link and some of the posts.
http://www.aipnews.com/talk/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24050&posts=1
http://www.aipnews.com/index.asp
Audio recording available - Sep 13, 2012 America's Summit: Restore The Republic call - SteveSchulin (0 replies)
Agenda 21, Secular Humanism, and the Animalization of Americans - gcsteven (2 replies)
Hallelujah! Obama can read. - Alan Keyes WND - gcsteven (3 replies)
The Picture That Should Cost Obama His Job - EternalVigilance (0 replies)
Unaccountable: PAC ActBlue Tops Political Donors with Online Donations - EternalVigilance (0 replies)
CA presidential candidate statements published [Obama, Stein, Romney, Hoefling, Johnson, Barr] - EternalVigilance (3 replies)
Two years later, and we basically find the same flawed strategy being employed... - VALEDICTION (3 replies)
Obama's treason -- planned, paraded, perfected, - TomK--V-USA (0 replies)
avebury
(11,087 posts)all of a sudden it "vanishes".
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)But young people aren't so dumb, neither are most of the old. The not-so-good father must be getting some hefty contributions from the right....
KathieG
(2,049 posts)Knowing the area, this doesn't surprise me at all.
rsweets
(309 posts)you don't need that kind of crap
pwb
(12,210 posts)Listening to these so called men of God speak makes me wish at times God gave us ear flaps.
Turk 182
(88 posts)They regularly write letters to the IRS reporting religious organizations who violate the tax code, and to the offending organization warning them of the consequences. They also take legal action.
Here is how to contact them:
http://www.au.org/about/contact-us
spartan61
(2,091 posts)I have scanned the article and will send it to Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
Turk 182
(88 posts)redwhiteblue
(29 posts)Socialism with a Harry S. Truman quote.
A Quote from Harry S. Truman.
" The Republicans will try to tell you that everything the government does for the country is socialism.They will go to the people and say:"Did you see that social security check you got the other day-you thought that was good for you didn't you? That's just too bad!That's nothing in the world but Socialism.Did you see that new flood control dam the government is building over there for the protection of your property? Sorry,-that's awful socialism.That new hospital that they are building is socialism. Price supports, more socialism for the farmers.Minimum wage laws? Socialism for labor.Socialism is bad for you my friend.Everybody knows that. And here you are with your new car, and your home and better opportunities for the kids and a television set__You are just surrounded by socialism.Now the Republicans say."That's a terrible thing my friend and the only way out of this sinkhole of socialism is to vote for the Republican ticket."
StevePaulson
(174 posts)Your priest is obviously brainwashed spartan. http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com He is obviously either a partisan Republican, or has such a feeble mind he has been brainwashed by Glenn Beck......
Republicans fight tooth and nail against everything Jesus taught.
Case closed.
paulwarnerwarrior
(4 posts)They claim to be the party of god, and completely ignore christs message.
newspeak
(4,847 posts)he's mormon.
I have a problem with the thought that "socialism" is bad. The damn church is based on socialism.
Bernardo de La Paz
(51,827 posts)
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)Let's get it out there! Also, tell your Bishop of your plan to send the bulletin to the IRS
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)on their website these days. That would make it easy to deal with. Just save the whole PDF to your hard drive. Then, it can be emailed as an attachment.
antiquie
(4,299 posts)I found this (plus google has lots of results):
"It was mostly the young people of this nation who elected (Barack) Obama and the Democratic Congress. You fell for the Hope and Change which in reality was nothing but Hype and Lies.
You have tasted socialism and seen evil face to face, and have found you don't like it after all. You make a lot of noise, but most are all too interested in their careers or climbing the social ladder to be involved in such mundane things as patriotism and voting."
http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/166505006_Letter_to_the_Editor__Seniors_are_taking_back_America.html
spartan61
(2,091 posts)It must be going around to all the churches to be put in their bulletins. I have a friend who had it in her bulletin in PA. Disgusting!!!
riverbendviewgal
(4,334 posts)the head cardinal in The USA.....
Separation of church and state is what America is all about...
You don't do it, you lose your income tax exemption. The law is the law. Might be good to write to each bishop in the state this is statement is found in a church bulletin......
Money talks...
wiki says
alfredo
(60,154 posts)
ThoughtCriminal
(14,394 posts)IF there is no attribution, it is plagiarism - which is theft of ideas (even bad ones).
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Your parish priest, if he hasn't been saying things like this from the pulpit, probably isn't even aware of it. Getting up at five in the morning to say several masses on Sunday morning, probably hasn't given him time to look at the bulletin. You really need to give him the benefit of the doubt first, and touch bases with him first. If the diocese is behind this screed, then the lay Catholics of the diocese need to set them straight. I have seen it done before when the laity laid into the local bishop telling him they didn't like how he was doing things.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)by a parishioner. This "essay" is being circulated widely on right wing forums and by email. The idea is that people send it to newspapers as LTTE and to other places. It's a well-planned viral distribution program, and from the look of it, it will probably peak in late October.
Google Gray-Haired Brigade, and you'll find the same essay on a brazillian sites. You'll see it on your Facebook feed next week, no doubt.
MineralMan
(148,188 posts)It is going to appear everywhere, I'm sure.
drm604
(16,230 posts)MineralMan
(148,188 posts)of that document.
JohnnyRingo
(19,502 posts)
Then he must be either stupid or crazy. I imagine he got that LTTE from a RW web site that encourages people to cut & paste an article into their local paper. What a tool.
antiquie
(4,299 posts)I cannot believe it was published.
JohnnyRingo
(19,502 posts)He wasn't really trying to kill his stepchildren, this is just what happens when when a doddering old fool doesn't cut & paste words like he did in the "Seniors" letter.
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)Even as they preach their so called doctrine of equality and fairness.
The real question is, how do so many people stay enamored of their nonsense? Even when they put it in print over and over again.
treestar
(82,383 posts)the Reupublicans who start wars to kill people too. People are still people after they are born. The RC church seems to forget that sometimes.
dynasaw
(998 posts)Time to tax churches. Includes the catholic church and the Mormons. Both are deep pits of wealth,real estate and property. They want to ply their oars I. Politics then they'd damn well should be ready to pay taxes. The times for freeloading are over.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)background information. Hopefully it will set a precedent for revoking TE status for all religious organizations that attempt to control the political decisions of its parishioners.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)And nail them to the church door!
mountain grammy
(27,443 posts)now send a copy to the IRS and to Americans United for Separation for Church and State. Barry Lynn's group will look into it.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)I remember using them for therapy, where you paid on a sliding scale based on what you can afford... that's sorta like socialism isn't it?
freshwest
(53,661 posts)So in getting funding from the government, they should not allowed to push a candidate. Or be allowed to discriminate. If it's all theirs from their private collections, fine. But they have always been a major lobbyist for govt. funds to help their programs, many churches use public help.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)This is some depressing stuff. You're right to confront the priest.
Baitball Blogger
(48,725 posts)
PearliePoo2
(7,768 posts)Then call your friends in the church and ask if they have seen it. Show it to the ones that haven't. Write your letter and ask all your like-minded, out-raged friends to sign it with you. Have your friends go WITH YOU and hand deliver the letter to the priest. Address all your concerns with this priest and encourage your friends to do so, face to face. Tell him WHY you are leaving.
Thank you for taking a stand. It's got to be very distressing for you. Don't back down.
Hat's off to you! 
Overseas
(12,121 posts)upset him as much as the aspirations of young voters for a more compassionate society.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)and tackling the gobal warming issue (supports the environmental position).
indivisibleman
(482 posts)More people need to be reacting to these sorts of actions.
Years ago we started hearing statements in a church we were attending about Bill Clinton that were very similar to what you recently experienced. They said he was going to set our country back 40 years.
During our search for a new church we attended a primarily black church and there they were political in speech as well but this time in favor of the Democratic Party.
Any church that politicizes their message should not only lose their tax exemption status but also their congregation.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)We no longer go to church... Seriously fucked up politically... On a street level catholics do a great job with the poor, my uncle is a Franciscan priest who does great work in south america... But that doesn't mean i have to sit down and listen to their shite every weekend!
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)The Catholic Church has been overstepping the bounds for years. My feeling is that any church with its own bank has lost sight of what churches are supposed to be about.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I am not Catholic but grew up in the shadow of a Catholic church and school, so many friends were. I used to think highly of the church, because of all the good they do in the community.
I am sorry to see the majority of Catholic Churches line up with the fundies. I know it is sad for you.
I can't say good things about the Catholic church anymore. Not since they went radical like this.
clydefrand
(4,325 posts)I left the church I was attending because the pastor talked about Bill Clinton and his problems with the woman. I got up and left. Never been back since then and won't go to a church again unless it is a Unitarian.
Roselma
(540 posts)since that business with the bishops fighting the HHS over the contraception coverage for affiliated hospitals, schools and charities. You know, I don't miss it. I don't think that God wants us to impose our beliefs on issues like contraception upon non-Catholics. I don't think that God feels that government should discriminate against couples wishing to get married, just because our Church opposes. I think that God probably isn't all that happy about us getting into the politics business anyway.
Auntie Bush
(17,528 posts)Plus, what they said is disgusting and untrue! If some of these overtly political churches started losing their exemption the others would take notice and start mending their ways and stick to God talk.
Lex
(34,108 posts)If he's so worried about "socialism."
Initech
(102,854 posts)That church should definitely give up tax exempt status. 
jillan
(39,451 posts)and other places of worship is people like you, standing up.
jsr
(7,712 posts)and see why people don't show up anymore after they get baptized or married.
jody
(26,624 posts)government controlled by a single religion.
That's freedom of religion in action!
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)Now that is just blatant politicking. Telling the "youngsters" that fell for the "hopes and Lies" in 2008. Goes on to say that the young folks who made that mistake in 2008, don't have to worry because the "gray haired geezers" are going to "take back the Country" in 2012.
That is one big nasty ball of hate on that church bulletin.
Also found it so interesting in the other article where they talk about leaving the church if you don't agree with their positions on "life and family." I can't fathom why any progressive person would be Catholic in this day and age. It's like openly joining a company that states right off the bat "we NEVER promote women into management."
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I tell you, the more I hear about what the "church says" about politics, the more I realize WHY I stopped attending religious organizations years ago. Every time I try to attend (usually Christmas), I see nothing to give me more faith than trying to live like Jesus did. This parish is a joke, so good for you for leaving it.
Do I need a religious organization to message me about how to live? That was a rhetorical questions. Of course, I don't. Some do... I don't.
In fact, organized religion happens to be one of the biggest examples I've ever seen of how people can stand on a soap box, decide to lie and then don't have to pay taxes.
I know not all churches behave this way, but enough do to piss off anyone's idealized myth of "do unto others".
Tigress DEM
(7,887 posts)How does one report a parish to the IRS for tax fraud?
classof56
(5,376 posts)I had accompanied a visiting family member who's Catholic and wanted to attend mass. She was absolutely beside herself at the priest's words (said her priest in PA would never have said that), and while I found it slightly amusing, I did take offense. It's been awhile since I walked out of a Southern Baptist church never to return, because of their stand against a gay marriage measure on the ballot, going so far as collecting money to defeat it as folks exited the church after the (of course) anti-gay sermon. I was disgusted beyond words, and have pretty much given up on "mainstream christianity", which I followed almost from birth. For years it had not occurred to me that christians were going to be their own undoing, but here we are. I'm ready for some heavy-duty smiting from above, but meanwhile I fully agree that you should report your church's political stance to the IRS. Let's put an end to the tax exemption status. Somehow I feel Jesus would approve!
Blessings and OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Major Nikon
(36,915 posts)Especially coming from a representative of an institution that fosters misogyny, xenophobia, intolerance, pedophilia, and uses a 2,000 yr old tome attributed to illiterate goat herders as their moral compass.
It's like wingnuts who accuse me of "just not getting it". Yep I don't, and that's a good thing.
classof56
(5,376 posts)I like your list--covers the bases, and they really don't have much to recommend them, do they? Or any so-called christian institution, actually. I won't be going back to it or any church if I can avoid it in the future (the occasional funeral comes to mind). Pretty sure they won't miss me!
Thanks for the reality check!
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
Response to spartan61 (Original post)
bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.
begin_within
(21,551 posts)Prepare a note that is the same size as a dollar bill.
Have it say something like "This would have been $20, if you had not put that disgusting political article in last week's bulletin."
Put it inside an anonymous collection envelope and drop it in the collection basket.
Then they will be forced to read it when they count the money Monday morning.
For 50 more weeks, put a similar note, saying it would have been $20 had they not published a political article.
On the 52nd week, the final note should say, "So you lost over $1000 from us because you turned political."
I did a similar thing after Proposition 8 passed in California.
The Wizard
(12,990 posts)affairs of State, then it shouldn't mind paying for that privilege.
davidwparker
(5,397 posts)of my street. I've seen seen a place so politically charged.
NYC Liberal
(20,361 posts)He lived in a small town where he was a well-known attorney and the family had given a lot of money to the local church.
On one particular Sunday he, his wife, and the 5 kids (including my grandmother) went to Mass as usual. They had their own pew, right up in front. The priest during his homily started going off on FDR and Eleanor (called her a whore, among other nasty things).
My great-grandfather got up and led the entire family out of the building in the middle of this rant, then later that day called this priest personally and totally ripped into him -- told him among other things that he didn't go to church to hear some priest's right-wing bullshit.
Needless to say there were no more such rants in the future.
Mariana
(15,227 posts)when the rich parishioners who give a lot of money to the church want to hear their particular political views being preached?
NYC Liberal
(20,361 posts)
Cha
(306,204 posts)legacy, NYC Liberal!
HopeHoops
(47,675 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts).... that those statements about the "Big Lie" are a big lie.
"Tasted Socialism"...what the hell is he talking about?
Perhaps the parish should not expect or depend on any money collected from the congregation. Smacks of socialism!
pangaia
(24,324 posts)http://www.stmarkrcc.com/documents/982349%20September%2016%202012.pdf
My god this is dis-"grace"-ful. Sick. Ignorant, fascist, hateful, mindless, blind, stupid idiots. Most of these old farts are on SS, get Medicare, Medicaid, use the fire dept, police dept, roads, their grand kids use public schools, church pays NO TAXES,... What in the living hell is wrong with them..??
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)And their 501.c.3 non-profit status. Send this information to the IRS, as noted earlier in this thread. 
progree
(11,493 posts)So a church may speak out for civil rights (e.g. black churches) or for or against gay marriage or socialism or deficit spending or free birth control pills or any other generic issue. But not for or against any candidate or political party.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/09/13/good-question-are-churches-allowed-to-say-vote-yes-or-vote-no/
That said, the church bulletin was so obviously advocating against Obama, even if it didn't say "Obama", that yes, you should send it to the IRS. And Americans United For Separation for Church and State -- au.org. I am a member of the latter and love their "Church and State" magazine which is all online. They seem to have a ton of resources, they get involved in almost everything relative to church-state separation.
On Edit: added a space in the title to separate 2 words run together.
Festivito
(13,628 posts)Hey, if your salary were to go from 30K to 80K if you add a couple somewhat innocuous tidbits to your reports, you'd be tempted as well.
Don't leave, that plays into their plans. Agitate!
titaniumsalute
(4,742 posts)Way too political for me. And their social BS is eactly that...BS. We became members of a First United MEthodist Church. Very accepting, non-judgmental, mostly working to help those leff fortunate.
d_r
(6,907 posts)this completely violates it - an official church publication endorsing candidate
http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/Churches-&-Religious-Organizations
jody
(26,624 posts)Haired Brigade. Could it be that one person used her/his authority to write a portion of the program and neither the priest nor others vetted the contentious portion?
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Do I dare post what I said? I don't think so. :>
)
jonthebru
(1,034 posts)that the tax exempt status of religious organizations is based on them not being overtly political.
Oh, and also what they printed were lies perpetrated by brainwashed idiots.
rwsanders
(2,791 posts)We're protestant and tend toward charismatic churches, so this has been a huge problem for us. We even tried a church where the majority were African-American, but still had to sit through an endorsement of the Repugnant party.
It is funny they chose socialism as the issue because C.S. Lewis said that if a government were to be based on the bible, it would probably be socialist.
I have challenged pastors and bible school graduates to sit with me and compare each and every plank of the Repugnant platform with the bible and so far none has dared. Not that I have any great knowledge (I'd have to rely on Jim Wallis' "God's Politics) but it is telling that they KNOW that what they believe (politically) doesn't line up with the bible.
We have finally been blessed with a church where the politics is left outside (the pastor doesn't even do the usual "patriotic" speal on Memorial Day. We pray you find a church home that is just as inclusive.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Was it replaced by "get a job you bum"?
REK72
(2 posts)Yesterday I was listening to NPR's show, "Wait, Wait - Don't Tell Me" and heard this line. When asked what the next great uprising in righteous religious indignation would be, the guest replied: The Catholic Council of Bishops would scream "blasphemy" when Clint Eastwood tries to reenact the Council of Trent using a complete dining room set as a prop.
Hulk
(6,699 posts)I am also a Catholic....born, baptized, and brought up in the Catholic faith. I remember serving mass at 5 am at the convent often...so private and felt so spiritual. I was an altar boy my entire grade school years, and I even served for funerals and weddings after grade school. I was quite seriously considering the ministry, as I went to Mt Angel, and if things had been just a little different, I can't help but believe I would have joined the priesthood. Ouch!
Sent all my kids to Catholic schools. Had them receive all the sacraments...and now...I'm totally away from the Church..and have been since the Bush-fiasco. I lived in Mexico for five years, and I became acutely aware of how evil the Catholic Church has been throughout history: the Inquisition, exploitation of the indigenous in the New World, the poisonous molesting of children and COVER-UP by the Church, and now, their political stand AGAINST what Jesus himself would have been on the opposing side for...except perhaps abortion...and I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice.
I found ONE Catholic Church here in Portland, Oregon, that actually practices the way of Christ. It is totally a socialistic parish. They run a food kitchen, shelter the homeless, are internationally involved in sending goods and money south to Latin America where it is desperately needed; but OMG....so rare to find. The parishioners are all "60's hippies", and they are a pleasure to sit next to and sing with, and hold hands and hug and share with. But this is so rare, and so out of the ordinary for the Catholic faith.
We recently visited a neighborhood Catholic Church, and I'm disgusted. The same crap you ran into. Stuffy, "go-to-church.....now-I'm-a-good-Christian" mentality. Cold as stone. Just the mass...and nothing personal at all..until it comes to being anti-Obama. Sickened and saddened. I guess I'm done with Catholicism until and if it should ever get it's head out of it's ass and start actually following the teachings of Christ.
I feel bad for you..but you aren't alone. There are MILLIONS of us who have left, and can no longer take the hypocrisy and crime that belongs in Rome and in our neighborhood churches. It's a sad day for Christ. It's a sad day for Christians.
spartan61
(2,091 posts)You wrote the words that I am actually feeling in my heart. I wish I could go to the church in Portland, Oregon you spoke about. Yes, most Catholic churches are stone cold, nothing personal. It is a sad day for Christians, indeed.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)The teaching and worship of God or any other spiritual journey should not be poisoned with politics. In Christianity Jesus said to render unto Ceasar. He render himself to the point of letting the politics of the day crucify him.
cstanleytech
(27,246 posts)After all they might have crossed the line that gives them that tax exemption with the IRS and if so it does need to be reported.
radhika
(1,008 posts)panzerfaust
(2,818 posts)You are born again, in reason.
Congratulations
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)would criticize an economic system that is designed for the social good of all the people?
Indpndnt
(2,391 posts)just1voice
(1,362 posts)were of the same mindset. Sometimes other people were involved in the conversations as well and all the discussions ended with the idea that the ministers and priests were totally delusional hypocrites who didn't deserve to be in a position where they gave people spiritual advice.
Sad but true.
pittipat
(4 posts)Hey, spartan61 what Florida parish? We had an experience during the 2008 election at Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Punta Gorda, FL and haven't been back since. In his homily, an old, "over the hill" priest, was extolling the virtues of John the Baptist and then compared Bill O'Reilly to John's bravery. My husband and I immediately stood up and left by the front door. Walking all the way from the front row and slamming the door on our way out. And, when Tom Rooney was running for Congress the first time, he showed up in church and was introduced as Congressman Tom Rooney. Since it was only the primary, and he had two other opponents, that raised quite a stink. Oh, there's more, but that enough. Good for you.
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)The priest who said mass obviously didn't have any idea who m mom was and it sounded as if he didn't. We had service for her up here in Cleveland and it went mush better. The Parish my sister belongs to was an inner city church that was notoriously liberal in it's approach.
plethoro
(594 posts)dddddddddddd
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)to know how many church bulletins carried a similar message nationally, if any. If a pattern emerged it would make for interesting speculation.
MessiahRp
(5,405 posts)provided the IRS acts upon it. Make no mistake a HUGE part of the GOP strategy is subverting the law and using these churches as propaganda machines.
Alduin
(501 posts)They should have NO tax-exempt status if they're politicizing.
Warpy
(113,131 posts)with a note that any organization that engages in politics should be taxed as a political organization.
Then write a letter of complaint, a pungent one, and send it in to the church offices. Do mention that parishoners are choosing between a dishonest man giving lip service to ending legal abortion and a man who is working to correct the economy and who is following the words of the Bishops on alleviating the misery in this country. Send it.
Then do consider whether or not it's time to drive an extra 15 minutes on Sunday to find a better parish or even whether it's time to join the Church of England in order to get away from antiabortionists with blinders on who can't see the horrible damage Republicans are doing to this country.
Oh, and also make sure the collection plate is considerably lighter while you're deciding all of this.
The parishes will change when the people in them force change and the right wing dimwit who wrote that bulletin is back to polishing the brass on the candle rack.
There is absolutely nothing you can do about the blinkered, pig ignorant hierarchy. However, you can budge your own church if you dig your heels in and fight. If they won't change, take a hike. They are being unchristian.
lastlib
(25,074 posts)...and the ACLU. They would love to hear about it.
http://www.au.org/
http://www.aclu.org/
blueknight
(2,831 posts)but i believe organized religion is some sort of mental illness. i have'nt been in a church in years and feel i still have a relationship with god. what you are talking about occured in the church i attended back when clinton ran against old man bush. i havent been in a church since.
after years of watching these nutcases on tv begging for money, molesting kids, stealing from their parishoners and the like, i really believe you have to have some mental illness to believe in organized religion.
tawadi
(2,110 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)due to the contraception mandate, gay marriage, Cardinal Dolan of NYC, and Prop 8 (public money to religoius organization) in Florida.
What they don't realize is that they are walking a very fine line here with endorsing a specific party and specific candidates. Maybe if enough people complain they will get the message? Shut up or lose your tax exempt status.
I haven't been to Mass in 20 years so I don't know if they are saying this in Naples churches. AVE MARIA? What do you think? Given the demographics of the population (right wing Republicans), it wouldn't surprise me.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)that you are leaving the parish because of this. The rector of your church needs a reprimand from his bishop.
AnnieBW
(11,457 posts)When my Dad passed away, we went to the Mass that he usually ushered at, to let all of his friends know that he'd died the day before. The priest, who is normally quite nice, went on this extended rant against contraception and was criticizing Michelle Obama for saying that she was a Christian, but her husband's administration was stomping on the Church's Freedom of Religion by forcing them to pay for low-cost contraception. If it wasn't my Dad's Mass, I would have stood up and walked right out.
go west young man
(4,856 posts)one local church here in Brunswick, Georgia posted "Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do" on their sign by side of the road. The churches in general have become way too political these days. They need to lose their tax exempt status and pay tax like everybody else. They are just one more cog in the corrupt wheels of our nation. No one in their right mind buys that religious bullshit they are peddling these days. If Jesus were around he would boot their asses to the curb. Down here in Georgia all voting is done in the churches. One more way to keep everyone on a certain mindset by the puritanical assholes.
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)People who understand the positive tenets of Social Democratic principals
are a real threat to those who get on a stage and make a living scaring
people with stories about devils and angels.
Almost like a bar tender working the room. Its all about the tips.
penndragon69
(788 posts)is also a form of SOCIALISM.
But of course, this is the "GOOD" socialism.
HYPOCRITES ! 
FirstLight
(14,369 posts)That way you can share the hypocritical actions of the Catholic Church in Florida and get the word out to more people....
patrice
(47,992 posts)
SunSeeker
(54,215 posts)They are not people who follow Jesus Christ's teachings, that's for sure.
VPStoltz
(1,295 posts)the Bishop, Cardinal, etc.
I totally agree with you on the tax status and many, many churches should have lost it by now.
Rhiannon12866
(225,880 posts)Just before he 2004 election, I read a handout from the Church on how they felt you should vote and why. I was pretty horrified. In the past two elections I've worked for my Democratic congressman, just walked in and asked what I could do. It really does make a difference!
BarackTheVote
(938 posts)I started going to this Catholic youth group Life Teen when I was 13 or 14; by the time I was 15, I was on their junior core as their webmaster. I remained part of the core off and on for the next twelve years, mostly during the summer when I was off from College. In March, I think it was, our Bishop gained national notoriety for calling Catholics who voted for candidates who voted in favor of abortion "Judas Iscariots." Obviously, this is one of the worst things you can call a Catholic, and it reeked of politicking and, indeed, bullying. I stopped contributing to the local parish and went off on Jenky on my facebook:
Dear Bishop Jenky, I will not be bullied. I will vote my conscience. I will not kowtow to plutocrats who wish to destroy the middle class and create a nation of indentured slaves. I will not succumb to fear-mongers who would have us at war with the entire world and every culture beyond their delicate WASP sensibilities. You are socially irresponsible. You are alienating the people who will only hear the Gospel if spoken with the gentle, all-loving voice of Christ. The world you would have us build will be a dystopia far more horrifying than whatever you think you perceive today. You would create a world of fear and desperation. Abortion is a symptom of a disease that would only fester and metastasize in your world. We strike at the core illness, poverty of body, mind, and spirit; we uplift and grant freedom, we lay the foundation of Maslow's Hierarchy of Need, which, unlike the Catholic hierarchy, is something everyone, regardless of race, culture, or creed, abides. You will destroy the Church in America just as your predecessors destroyed the Church in France. Secularism thrives where your type of rhetoric prevails and people will shut you off and leave the altar en masse. I for one will stay. A Catholic Democrat, as disgusting as that might be for you.
Well, for that, I was unceremoniously kicked out of the youth group I had spent more than a decade helping and supporting, undefended by my so-called friends on the core. But I'm not going anywhere. I still believe in the sacraments, the communion of saints, the core dogmas, the historicity of the Catholic claim, and the social justice doctrines. I think the hierarchy is going through another period where it's on the wrong side of history, but they're just men. The Church is bigger than them. Eventually, I believe, the Church will get back on track, but only if the progressive laity stands firm and doesn't allow itself to be driven away. After all, we are ALL priests, prophets, and kings, and we all have a part in the ultimate direction in which the Church walks into the future.
Christ was the original Bleeding Heart Liberal:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_GK9vk5xxaSs/Rmcb9tlh7QI/AAAAAAAABNc/Y0sAn85NnEk/s1600/Sacred+Heart+of+Jesus.jpg
Cynicus Emeritus
(172 posts)will certainly lead us into, gives him hope and change? Romney and Ryan will be a repeat of Bush and Cheney. Every POTUS needs his own war.
I agree with others that this needs to be sent to the IRS as an example of religious interference in politics. It needs to be nipped in the bud before it becomes full fledged corrupt cronyism. We're allowing our institutions to get away with lying, cheating, and stretching the laws without ever being held accountable.
crunch60
(1,412 posts)church and state. They indeed should Not have tax exempt status. Please send this bulletin to the IRS. I left the RCC long ago because of this and many other issues with their teachings.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... you should also file a complaint with the IRS for the tax fraud these bastards are committing and demand their tax exempt status be revoked.
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)If I went to hell, I would expect to get burned.
The Old Creak
(238 posts)and amen!
femrap
(13,418 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts) Sounds like you are strong enough to weather it.
Thanks for telling us about this. The Catholic Church has gone off the rails as bad as the Evangelicals.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Think for yourself.
Act for yourself.
When you do that, you may realize that organized religion is no more needed than organized crime.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)"Each one must learn the highest wisdom for her/himself. It cannot be taught with words"
--Smohala
Cha
(306,204 posts)How ironic that the Church's newsletter is being used for LIES("the devil'sl work" . They definitely need to be made aware of this. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, spartan!
liberal N proud
(61,001 posts)They want to play politics, they should pay taxes.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,947 posts)the Church has no business in politics...........
emsimon33
(3,128 posts)Any church that takes a political stand as your church did should have its tax free status revoked. In face, revoking the tax free status of churches and religious groups is not such a bed idea...period!
hue
(4,949 posts)The early Christians lived in communities and practiced loving one another!!
I was born & raised Catholic, but left many years ago---ahh, sooo many reasons for leaving!!
The wealthiest non for profit (including real estate assets, historical treasures including jewels, gold, art, libraries etc.) organization in the world while continuing to collect pennies from the poor at mass, institutionalization and enabling of pedophiles, forbidding birth control including condoms for those who could not afford to feed & clothe the children they had, excommunication of those who love each other of the same sex, their total war on science & the scientific method with their inquisitions, burning of "witches", the Crusades, and I could go on & on....
You got that right!
47of74
(18,470 posts)Ten years, five years, or even a year ago I thought I would live out my life as a Catholic. Despite all the wrong the church leadership had done I was still committed to the church. Sure, I thought of leaving from time to time, but the good in the parish I was part of outweighed the wrong that was being done in the church by the leadership.
But last February it all came crashing down for me. I had my fill of the Bishops and their self serving arrogance when they started complaining about how their 
poor precious religious liberty was being taken away from them. I had my fill when they put their own political power ahead of serving humanity. I had my fill when Bishops started comparing our President to Hitler and Stalin. I had my fill when I saw the nuns being attacked by the leadership for doing what Christ actually wanted them to do - take care of the poor and the sick. I had my fill when I saw the nastiness that conservatives in the church had for their neighbor who didn't look, think, act, or believe as they did.
Since then I've been going to Episcopal services. I feel comfortable in them, enough so that I hope to be received in November when the Bishop makes a visit to the parish. I feel more at home there then I did in the Catholic church. And it's liberating to be able to be more open in my own personal beliefs.
Ilsa
(62,353 posts)I hope you continue to find peace there.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)And yes, report them to the IRS.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)...report them to the IRS.
K&R
grr8wine
(15 posts)tomm2thumbs
(13,297 posts)disguised as a 'mission from God' in many cases (not all) but enough of the big ones that make it something to avoid if you want to beat the odds
even my mormon cousin left the church after they began publicly supporting political measures DURING services, like Prop 8, etc. At some point, you realize they are frauds
_____
btw, welcome to DU!
fadedrose
(10,044 posts)Our post offices could use the business.....let everyone know his address....
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)I've emailed many a member who have incorporated anti Obama comments into their sermons. Normally they are surprised to hear I support Obama and it leads to good discussions and apologies.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)it's a PAC, not a church
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Looks like its designed to go viral and hit the email circuit in a big way in another month - just in time for election fever.
cheriemedium59
(212 posts)But years ago I took my 5 year old daughter with me to mass and right by the doors coming in they had a magazine with aborted fetuses and a box of baby shoes representing abortions. I called the church and gave them a piece of my mind and left. Never went back. I go to an Episcopal church now.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)voice.
rasputinkhlyst
(62 posts)demosincebirth
(12,740 posts)
RagAss
(13,832 posts)What did you expect from a church that took a hard right turn and installed an ex-Nazi as pope?
Kingofalldems
(39,335 posts)
tavernier
(13,317 posts)when the priest stood up on the pulpit and called the nuns of the church harlots and whores because they dared to express the desire to preach the gospel. The NERVE!
Funny how those moments of epiphany sneak up on you in life.
Brainstormy
(2,445 posts)AMEN! Good for you. I personally abandoned my own Atlanta church in '96 when the pastor preached about not allowing gays to compete in Olympic volleyball. I've never looked back.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)not okay with the IRS, so turn him in there, and because of the IRS issue, you would've felt confident it wouldn't be spent thusly.
Not only do you folks need to leave these types of churches, you need to find a way to hold them accountable.
joanbarnes
(1,904 posts)lindysalsagal
(22,453 posts)Sorry it hurts so much, but that passes. Promise.
dpbrown
(6,391 posts)He preached about taking care of the least among us. Social activism is exactly what Christianity is supposed to be all about.
JohnnyRingo
(19,502 posts)If he's so deluded about the president's "socialist" ways, what else is he getting wrong? Certainly he's judging the president's morality in a way I feel is incorrect.
I'd pose that question personally and inquire if he maintains a political hit list. If so, why? Does he find inspiration in "Hannitys America"?
RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)See that they have to pay for getting political.
At least see that they roll back that crap in the future!
xmas74
(29,810 posts)At the church I attend neither the senior pastor nor the associate pastor put together the bulletin or the biweekly newsletters-it's a volunteer, often someone retired in the congregation. The bulletin is very straight forward, only containing info about the service with an insert about upcoming activities for the week. The newsletter has additional info, including things that the congregation members are doing.
We had something similar to this a few years ago. Turns out the pastor had no idea that was actually in there until it was pointed out. After that incident the person who did it was no longer allowed to be in charge of the bulletins or the newsletters and all further info had to be approved before printed. They left the church shortly thereafter.
Just check with your priest. They might not even know it was in the bulletin.
Jack Sprat
(2,500 posts)then the churches would bury their political forays for good. The church brass need to be confronted by their parishioners. They have no business seeking dominion over a person's political beliefs, of all things.
King_Klonopin
(1,344 posts)Political leanings of specific churches tend to reflect the
demographics of the area.
I don't like political speeches mingled with the Homily either.
I have had to sit through the editorial comments of how
"Obamacare" was an attack on religious freedom (referring to the
whole contraception flap) and, just this Sunday, that we should
vote against a ballot referendum on MD assisted suicide.
IF I am voting according to my faith and belief in Jesus, I'm going
to vote for the Democrat every time.
"Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's, render unto God what is God's."
I try to keep the two separate -- like it says in The Constitution.
GTurck
(826 posts)of the responses and what I read never mentioned the higher authority, the bishop or cardinal, that the parish priest must obey. If the letter is the work of the priest then send it to the diocesan offices. Some priests also belong to communities like Franciscans, Sacred Heart, etc. and they have superiors as well who should be informed.
I am having problems as well with our parish and the right ward list of the church in general because they are concentrating not on the poor, the sick, the hungry, and the neglected but on abortion and homosexual marriage issues. Mostly our priest sounds like he has listened to Faux too much and that has made my fewer and fewer visits to mass very uncomfortable.
When I came into the church it was just a decade after Vatican II and we lived in a suburb of Chicago. Much more open, satisfying and aware than now.
Mapletonian
(30 posts)Music to my ears!
DippyDem
(660 posts)The same letter also encourages us to pledge allegiance to the US. It would be interesting to know that the pledge was written by a socialist.
2. The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist.
The Pledge was written in 1892 for public school celebrations of the 400th anniversary of Columbus’ arrival in the Americas. Its author was Francis Bellamy, a Baptist minister, Christian socialist and cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy. Christian socialism maintains, among other ideas, that capitalism is idolatrous and rooted in greed, and the underlying cause of much of the world’s social inequity. Definitely more “Occupy Wall Street” than “Grand Old Party” by anyone’s standard.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/04/1127663/-Ten-True-Facts-Guaranteed-to-Short-Circuit-Republican-Brains
Hubert Flottz
(37,726 posts)Write the IRS...
And go here and sign up to this letter to your reps...
http://taxthechurches.org/quotes.html
Hang on to the bulletin. Make some copies to send to others and scan and post!
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)God and politics should not mix. For me though, it was more the child abuse and ultimately the fact that the Vatican continued to condemn homosexuals.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,223 posts)If they want to stray into the political arena, let them pay.
samplegirl
(12,315 posts)As I am sure he is not allowed to publish this.
jrjan1
(1 post)I went to Catholic school as a child and have rarely miss Mass throughout my entire life. Sitting there now, I feel like a hypocrit. I cannot get it out of my head that the church has boiled all our social problems down to 2 issues - Abortion and birth control, instead of looking at the problems right outside it's door.
I feel like one of my best friends has died and my heart is so heavy. I am hoping that others who feel the way we do, also boycott Mass. When the priests start preaching to empty pews, maybe they will understand that we are not in the middle ages any longer.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)May I refer you to Stephen Colbert? He has managed to love his Church, warts and all, and still advocated for it's best impulses.
mgardener
(1,931 posts)Write a letter to your Pastor but also write one to your newspaper and explain how you feel. More people will read it and may get people thinking. Your pastor certainly will not read it at Mass! Send the letter and bulletin to the IRS. Also send a copy to your Bishop.
Perhaps in the letter to the newspaper you should suggest that the Catholic church should not longer ask for donations for the church or it's charities. Socialism! Also tell your church it should not receive anymore tax deductions.
I am sick that the Catholic church has teamed up with these extremist religious right wingers. They are aligned with them for abortion, contraception and same sex marriage. But they have dragged themselves down into the filth.
Good Luck and write those letters and send that bulletin to the IRS!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,635 posts)Knowing the general conservative (at least in terms of social issues and issues of church administration) tendencies, you might not think they'd do much, but you'd be surprised. The U.S. Catholic Church in general, while frequently commenting on various issues, makes a strong point not to venture into advocacy for or against any particular candidate. I'm in Florida, a regular practicing Catholic, and I remember back in 2004 when you heard some people demanding John Kerry be refused communion, the Diocese of Palm Beach issued a statement that they required to be read which stated in no uneqivocal terms that the sacrament of Eucharist was not to be used as a weapon for partisan politics and that the Church was taking no position for or against any candidate.
If it's not a statement of princple, it's at least a statement of basic economics as the Church does not want to lose its IRS exempt status.
Just curious, who wrote the piece? Was it the pastor? Another priest? A parishioner?
Before you do anything too drastic, I might first contact the priest and demand a retraction and repudiation in the next week's bulliten. If that doesn't work, contact the Archdiocese and you might be surprised how hard they would come down in the situation.
I wouldn't necessarily use this as an excuse to leave the greater Catholic Church, though. Instead, look around for another parish. You'd be surprised how many progressive minded priests there are out there, at least as it relates to social justice issues (i.e. help for the poor and vulnerable). That is, after all, the Christian bedrock and using the church to argue against "socialism" is hypocricy at its highest. I would actually say members of the clergy who do not preach the "social gospel" are in a minority, so chances are a neighboring parish might have a much better outlook on things.
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)you have proof positive that they are involved in political speech. They need to ante up some tax.
progree
(11,493 posts)Pew Ado: Catholic Leaders Endorse Candidates Despite Growing Flock Objections
http://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/pew-ado-catholic-leaders-endorse-candidates-despite-growing-flock
----------------------------------------
Americans United Advises Houses Of Worship To Refrain From Partisan Electioneering
With Religious Right Pushing Churches To Go Political, Watchdog Group Sends 60,000 Cautionary Letters To Religious Leaders
http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/americans-united-advises-houses-of-worship-to-refrain-from-partisan
----------------------------------------
Americans United Asks IRS To Investigate El Paso Church That Urged Parishioners To Vote Against Obama
Church-State Watchdog Group Says St. Raphael’s Church May Have Violated Federal Law With Election Intervention
http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/americans-united-asks-irs-to-investigate-el-paso-church-that-urged-parishioners
------------------------------------------------
progree
(11,493 posts)telling them that 455 recommendations is very rare (I've never seen more than 200).
http://www.au.org
spartan61
(2,091 posts)I also sent them a copy of the article and wrote how it really struck a nerve with so many when I posted about reading it in the church bulletin.