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Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:18 PM

Did Hillary lose because she was a woman

I bring this up because I think Biden is going to win. And the reason he is going to win is because he will get these type of voters

1. Republicans who didnít like trump, but couldnít stand Hillary.

2. Democrats who just didnít bother to vote because they couldnít stand Trump, but couldnít stand Hillary.

Now the question is could they not stand Hillary because she was a woman or was 3 decades of negative press from the right wing or MSM....I think it is the latter.

65 replies, 1837 views

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Reply Did Hillary lose because she was a woman (Original post)
Proud liberal 80 Jun 2020 OP
JHB Jun 2020 #1
LisaM Jun 2020 #2
BlueMTexpat Jun 2020 #6
SheltieLover Jun 2020 #7
Hortensis Jun 2020 #12
ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #65
marble falls Jun 2020 #3
CrispyQ Jun 2020 #4
edhopper Jun 2020 #59
soothsayer Jun 2020 #5
Chainfire Jun 2020 #21
abqtommy Jun 2020 #8
Chainfire Jun 2020 #25
tinrobot Jun 2020 #9
StarryNite Jun 2020 #13
oregonjen Jun 2020 #10
JI7 Jun 2020 #31
oregonjen Jun 2020 #33
StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #34
oregonjen Jun 2020 #35
StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #36
oregonjen Jun 2020 #37
StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #38
JI7 Jun 2020 #42
MrsCoffee Jun 2020 #52
betsuni Jun 2020 #55
kcr Jun 2020 #54
Butterflylady Jun 2020 #11
smirkymonkey Jun 2020 #16
Aristus Jun 2020 #30
StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #39
enough Jun 2020 #14
Joinfortmill Jun 2020 #15
Hoyt Jun 2020 #17
MoonlitKnight Jun 2020 #45
MichMan Jun 2020 #18
doc03 Jun 2020 #19
Lucinda Jun 2020 #50
qazplm135 Jun 2020 #20
jcgoldie Jun 2020 #22
Skittles Jun 2020 #23
Blasphemer Jun 2020 #24
hamsterjill Jun 2020 #26
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #27
StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #40
Ms. Toad Jun 2020 #58
jimlup Jun 2020 #28
oasis Jun 2020 #29
JI7 Jun 2020 #32
Xolodno Jun 2020 #41
JI7 Jun 2020 #44
ecstatic Jun 2020 #43
Caliman73 Jun 2020 #46
betsuni Jun 2020 #47
DeminPennswoods Jun 2020 #48
Lucinda Jun 2020 #49
Buckeye_Democrat Jun 2020 #51
jmg257 Jun 2020 #53
treestar Jun 2020 #56
mcar Jun 2020 #57
Name removed Jun 2020 #60
Bettie Jun 2020 #61
edhopper Jun 2020 #62
DFW Jun 2020 #63
Azathoth Jun 2020 #64

Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:20 PM

1. The biggest cause of Hillary's loss was...

...the quarter century campaign of character assassination against her, from Bill's primaries straight through the present day.

Being a woman was part of that, and is inextricably linked to it, so it's not a nice, neat division.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:20 PM

2. I think it's both.

I think it's naive to think that sexism didn't hurt her. And with the really razor-thin margin of votes that handed Trump the electoral college, I think it made the difference.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:23 PM

6. This. eom

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Response to LisaM (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:24 PM

7. This!👆

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Response to LisaM (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:36 PM

12. Yes, but massive election subversion created that razor-thin margin.

I don't for a moment believe two years of polls that virtually all showed her always well, and often way, ahead, along with giant coattails for other races, were wrong. She was expected to win right up to after Labor Day when forces, including the FBI, AP, NYT, and no doubt Russia doubled down for the final stretch.

One clue is that as election day approached the previously totally reliable polls started bouncing wildly, like ping-pong balls, something that not only wouldn't but couldn't happen before. One day tens of millions more polled for her, two days later the margin favored him instead, back and forth, back and forth, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Uhuh. One time it's actually possible to vastly overestimate the stupidity of the electorate. This didn't happen.

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Response to LisaM (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:29 PM

65. I Tend To Agree

But as another poster said, the character accusations over 30 years contributed greatly.
Also, as popular as he was, her last name set off alarms with moderately informed voters. Whitewater & Lewinsky hung on both of them with a large enough fraction (10%?) to have been a problem too.
But, being a woman, with a history of high position scared enough snowflake voters into staying home, or even stupider, voting for Stein.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:20 PM

3. That was part of it without a doubt.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:21 PM

4. HRC lost because James Comey put his finger on the scale a few days before the election.

There was a ton of stealing/cheating anyway, but I honestly believe that Comey was the tipping point. I don't care how much he speaks out against the Con, I will never forgive him.

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Response to CrispyQ (Reply #4)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:01 PM

59. This

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:21 PM

5. Honestly, I think it's the woman thing

I hate to say it but I think it played a huge part.

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Response to soothsayer (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:23 PM

21. I think so too

Add to that the racist element where so many right-wingers were rebelling about the Democrats giving them a black president.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:25 PM

8. Hillary and the majority of us won the election in 2016 but we lost due to ratfucking... do you

think tRUMP/reTHUGS/cultists won't ratfuck Joe?

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Response to abqtommy (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:53 PM

25. They will certainly attempt to win by any means necessary; morality or legality be damned

The Republicans will fight dirty because they know how much they have to lose.

There is no point in trying to beat the drum that Hillary had the election stolen from her. We lost that election. I think that Democrats were too complacent and that is why we lost. We made the great mistake of thinking that someone like Trump could not possibly be elected to the Presidency of the United States of America. Hillary also made strategic errors based upon overconfidence.

Sure the 2016 fight was dirty as hell, but that is the state of American politics today; if we win we have to be able to deal with it. We can not make the same mistake again and survive the consequences. The election is not a sure thing. According to the polls, Trump is more popular today than he was four years ago today. Trump has great power to dominate the news to the point that Biden's message can be lost in the background noise. Biden has to find a way to get his message before the people that will decide the election; those fence setters occupying the space between Trump lovers and Trump haters. If not, we won't win.

If Biden does not implode, and enough people turn out this time we will win not only the popular vote, but the electoral vote and hopefully make great gains in the Senate. If we do that, most of the damage Trump has done can be undone. It is just a damn shame that perhaps 200,000 Americans and the American economy had to be sacrificed to get rid of the lousy bastard.

If Democrats can't win against the current president, then we are done.





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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:26 PM

9. She didn't "lose", but it was a perfect storm as well.

Some contributing factors:

1) Three decades of right-wing character assassination.

2) People really didn't know who Trump was (now they do)

3) Russian interference

4) Voter suppression

5) Bernie supporters refusing to get on board

6) Hillary's campaign could have been better.

Even with all that, she won by 3 million votes.

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Response to tinrobot (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:37 PM

13. All of that but...

even if one had been different she would be in the White House. #3 made the biggest difference imho.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:28 PM

10. She ran a horrible campaign

She didnít connect with voters. In Oregon, there were zero rallies. She decided it was best to fundraise privately in rich areas of the PDX metro, which frustrated a lot of people I know.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:02 AM

31. SHe won Oregon and the popular vote by millions

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Response to JI7 (Reply #31)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:22 AM

33. She did not win the Oregon primary, Bernie did

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #33)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:26 AM

34. What does the Oregon primary have to do with the general election

Claiming she didn't connect with Oregon voters makes absolutely no sense - she obviously connected with them enough to carry the state and get its electoral votes. So what difference did it make to the general election outcome that Bernie won the Oregon primary?

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #34)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:31 AM

35. She didn't connect with them enough to win the primary

and there were many people who were apathetic about voting for her in the general election. Her campaign was terribly run. She didnít connect with a lot of voters.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #35)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:38 AM

36. Given that Bernie did worse than Hillary & lost the majority of the primaries in TWO election cycles

you must be glad he didn't get the nomination either time - since, he connected with fewer voters than either Hillary of Biden did... and, thus, by your standard, voters would be very apathetic about voting for him in a general election ...


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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:51 AM

37. I was answering the question as to why Hillary lost

In my opinion, her campaign was poorly run. Since I live in Oregon, I was using my experience as a voter here. My opinions and experiences are obviously way different than yours. Had Hillary chose to come to Oregon and meet with the people, not just private fundraisers, she would have perhaps been able to change a few more minds. If she chose not to hold big rallies nationwide, she perhaps lost some voters. It does make a difference when candidates come through towns and speak to the public. That was one part of her campaign that she failed at doing.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 01:06 AM

38. That still makes no sense

Hillary obviously campaigned enough in Oregon to carry the state in the general. If she had spent more time there and won the votes of every single Oregonian, that wouldn't have changed the outcome in any way- except perhaps it would have meant she devoted less time to and possibly lost other states she won narrowly, thereby resulting in fewer popular votes and a larger loss in the Electoral College.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 02:26 AM

42. but there are other states and other voters and Hillary got more votes

than the people she was running against.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:57 AM

52. No, you were just repeating ridiculous talking points.

The only thing that kept Hillary from taking office was treason. She won by millions of votes.

Just stop.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #37)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:18 AM

55. LOL

FDR went to small towns because there were trains that went to small towns. There aren't anymore. DUH.

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Response to oregonjen (Reply #10)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:08 AM

54. Hillary ran a horrible campaign! squawk

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:30 PM

11. Yes it was

A problem in my red area of PA. My late husband talked to a number of male democrats and one thing they all mentioned was that they didn't think a woman could handle the job. Why not, emotional stability. I know, that was bulls**t, but that was what he heard.

He was shocked when they also said they had voted for the idiot.

We moved shortly after.

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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #11)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:41 PM

16. "Emotional Stability"



How are these men liking their "emotionally stable" president now?

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Response to Butterflylady (Reply #11)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:00 AM

30. If, at her hearings, she had burst into tears and talked about how much she likes beer,

would that have persuaded them to vote for her? After all, she would have been behaving like a man...

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Response to Aristus (Reply #30)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 01:07 AM

39. Boom

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:38 PM

14. A major factor, one of several. NT

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:40 PM

15. Yup, so many people loved to hate her

partly because she was a woman, but mostly it was the constant negativity.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:45 PM

17. Most reasons cited above are valid. I think complacency because of polls hurt too.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #17)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 02:43 AM

45. Agreed

It is critical to get out the vote this year...and every year.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:53 PM

18. In my lifetime, only once has the same party won three elections in a row

George Bush in 1988

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 03:54 PM

19. First of all she didn't lose. Second she was demonized by the Republican party and the

right wing propaganda machine for decades.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #19)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:03 AM

50. And some on the left as well...but yep. She didn't lose.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:07 PM

20. undoubtedly

of course it's not the only reason, but her politics are almost identical to Biden.

The demonization people talk about, that's because she was a woman too. She was too "uppity" as First Lady, and that animosity carried over to her political career.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:25 PM

22. Does the pope shit in the woods?

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:34 PM

23. Hillary certainly was held to higher standards than any man

while Trump was held to NO STANDARDS AT ALL

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:51 PM

24. Yes and no... she would have won in 2008

The country was fed up enough with the GOP and either Obama or Clinton would have won. In 2016, the social and economic conditions were different so any Democrat was going to have a harder time. The backlash against Obama's presidency, the GOP's sexist multi-decade anti-Hillary agenda, and a push back against family dynasties, made in that much more difficult. I'm not convinced that no Democrat could have won or that no female Democrat could have won. It was close enough that with the right candidate, including a female candidate, we could have won despite any identity-related prejudices.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 04:57 PM

26. Hillary lost because they cheated

I expect them to try it again, too.

Everyone must vote blue, all blue and nothing but blue. Our very lives depend on it.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 05:16 PM

27. Some of us didn't like Clinton for reasons that have nothing to do with

gender, or bad press. It isn't always and ism, or what others say. Sometimes we just don't like the candidate because of who she is.

Yes, I voted for her - but it was because there was no other option with any realistic possibility of defeating trump.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #27)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 01:09 AM

40. That's always the case with any candidate

But Hillary an extra burden of gender - that simply cannot be denied.

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Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #40)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:57 PM

58. I was specifically responding to the OP,

Who declared there were only two reasons for Democrats not to vote for Clinton.

Now the question is could they not stand Hillary because she was a woman or was 3 decades of negative press from the right wing or MSM....I think it is the latter.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 11:53 PM

28. Yes ... that and Russians...

Seriously both factors were in play.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Sun Jun 7, 2020, 11:59 PM

29. Coulda won if certain people would have got up off their asses

and voted for the only candidate who they KNEW would have their interests at heart.

Yes they knew it but, oh well.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 12:04 AM

32. Yes, the Comey thing was also based on Sexism

he wanted to be on record as scolding the woman.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 01:27 AM

41. For being a woman..no.

It was one small part of it however, but their plenty of other factors.......

1. She was practically ordained.

2. Bernie....and I supported Bernie..so shut up if you want to make an argument over that..and I still voted for her.

3. Her second run paled to her first.

4. Her husband carried some baggage that rolled into her first campaign...and second.

5. Energized GOP base after 8 years of Obama..doesn't matter he made their lives better.

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Response to Xolodno (Reply #41)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 02:33 AM

44. she won in her 2nd Primary while Sanders did horribly the 2nd time

the party out of power will always be energized after 8 years.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 02:32 AM

43. Yes. nt

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 03:05 AM

46. Hillary "lost" for several reasons

Her being a strong, intelligent, outspoken woman was definitely a large factor in why Trump was able to steal the electoral college. As others have said, the Republicans engaged, since the 90's, when Bill Clinton was elected President, in a smear campaign. Hillary had 25+ years of unfair baggage that she carried into the election. Biden, while having some problems, has not been the focus of hatred in such a sustained manner. I do attribute that to Hillary being a woman and being so prominent for so many years.

The issue is not either or. Hillary received 3 decades of negative press BECAUSE she is a woman. Her husband was President, had many more problems, that he brought upon himself, but has a higher positive rating than she does. Biden has been in politics longer than Hillary has, and has had more gaffes but everyone likes him. I don't think that anyone in politics other than maybe President Obama, was attacked in such a coordinated manor, and President Obama was only attacked for about 9 or 10 years when he ran for and was elected President. Racism is very much alive in this country AND so is SEXISM which is one of the reasons why we do not have a woman candidate and why an all woman ticket was such a scary thing, even to Democrats. Think about it, we have had one Black man as president in 240+ years and ONE woman presidential candidate in the same amount of time, except women are about 51% of the population.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 04:34 AM

47. Yes, she had high approval ratings (think it was almost 70% before running) and broke the record

for being most admired woman (20 times).

But then the lies began and people were all too eager to believe in the fictional character it created and forget the actual person. Lustful for the chance to hate, even. From all sides except the Democratic base who knew her and didn't fall for all the crap.

Republicans had their own long-term anti-Hillary propaganda and by 2016 the Republican Party had become a nutty white nationalist party, so no chance of votes from them. In 2008 there were roughly the same number of white Democrats and Republicans. Over the Obama administration whites flocked to the Republican Party. What clinched it was targeted propaganda from other directions, the Comey letter, first election since new voter laws, total failure of MSM.

Elizabeth Warren was popular, many said they'd totally vote for her if she had run in 2016, that it wasn't a woman running that they didn't like, it was THAT woman, the cartoon Hillary they were told was corrupt and mindlessly believed it. Then Elizabeth ran. Suddenly they didn't like her either, for vague reasons. In both cases it boiled down to either vague reasons or lies they believed.

I thought nobody would be as disrespected as President Obama. I was wrong. With him they still pretended that it was about policy or a tan suit or mustard or being a Muslim and it was still pretty much a political game, but with Hillary it was personal, she was immoral and evil and murdered people and couldn't be trusted not to be worse than Trump. It became deadly serious.

Joe won't get that, he's a guy.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:00 AM

48. The rw media attacks imo

They attacked her and Bill non-stop for 30+ years. That took a toll for sure.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:01 AM

49. She didn't lose. n/t

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:32 AM

51. Mostly the latter imo.

Most of my right-wing coworkers in 2008 were FAR more excited by Palin than McCain. Does that mean they were less sexist than liberals? No!

Hillary Clinton was attacked relentlessly by right-wing propagandists for years before she ever ran for President, and it seeps into the minds of people eventually even if they only listen to Limbaugh and his kind occasionally during their drives to and from work. And it can be a major struggle to change minds after they've got a negative first impression.

The GOP recognized Hillary Clinton's big ambitions long ago, and they indeed called it correctly.

Obama was more of a shock to them, otherwise they might've started a propaganda effort against him long ago and he wouldn't have stood a chance. If they had the Rev. Jeremiah Wright stuff long ago and guessed that Obama would run for President, then Obama wouldn't have become President. The "first impression" set by those guys would've have been too much to overcome.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:03 AM

53. Wonder how many votes she got because she was a woman?

#1 was a thing.

And there are also still plenty of 1 issue voters.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:49 AM

56. Partly yes

Part was her lead was so large stupid people did not bother to vote. She even put an ad about it out. This is the big problem. It is how Republicans win, especially in midterms.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 10:05 AM

57. In part, yes

Lots of factors, of course, but her sex was part of it. How many of us were derided for being "vagina voters?"

I was amazed at how many supposedly liberal men said she wasn't qualified.

The most qualified person in generations to run for president and she wasn't qualified?

Just like there is systemic racism, there is systemic sexism. Women are held to a higher standard.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)


Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:04 PM

61. It was a combination of the two things

but given this primary cycle, I think being a woman definitely had a lot more to do with it than I previously thought.

There were very qualified women running and we ended up with a nominee who is white, and male...like all but one who came before.

Once he said he'd choose a female VP...well, every thread about a possible VP choice has posts about how he "hamstrung" himself by making such a promise, as if there are no qualified women out there.

And that's here, in what is supposed to be a liberal community.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 05:04 PM

62. She Didn't Lose!

She was the choice of the majority of voters.

The election was stolen!

It was the 2019 NFL Championship of Presidential Elections. (Saints / Rams)

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:15 PM

63. She didn't lose the election, only the EC

And it was THE MEDIA that did her in.

They reported EVERY little accusation brought against her as if it were a provable murder charge, and let Trump off with a slap on the wrist. They cut off her speeches after the first 30 to 90 seconds while running Trump's diatribes even if they lasted half an hour. The Media chose to skew their "reporting (and I use that term loosely in this case)," and got a predictable result.

Their "who? us?" attitude afterward was never very convincing. They knew what they were doing, they just didn't realize how badly they tipped the scales in Trump's favor. Their cries of innocence and good intentions ring about as true as Big Tobacco's claim that smoking is not harmful to anyone's health.

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Response to Proud liberal 80 (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:24 PM

64. Sigh. No.

Hillary lost because she was an extremely unpopular candidate that Republicans had been campaigning against relentlessly for 25 years. Who also happened to be under FBI investigation a week before the election. The simple truth is that if she had been up against a credible opponent like Jeb, she would have been the underdog in the race.

The people who didn't vote for her because she was a woman are not going to vote for Joe Biden either.

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