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Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:56 PM

Why does our side complicate things? Again!

This “Defund the police” messaging is aggravating as hell! Of course it doesn’t mean eliminate police departments. But we’ve shot ourselves in the foot because now our folks have to either spend a lot of time explaining what it really means. Why couldn’t we say something like Reform the Police, or Clean Up the Police, or Get Racists out of the Police?

I mean the damn tRumpers may have shit for policy positions, but you don’t need five minutes to explain their slogans! If they put out a new slogan that simply says “We are Assholes!” They can move on to the next propaganda bullshit without stopping to explain.

Obviously the Defund tag is not going to get us any additional votes by itself. So when we go into “here is what it really means...” the audience starts hearing blah, blah, blah.

And despite how nice the polls are looking right now, about five months out, we are going to need those additional votes!

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why does our side complicate things? Again! (Original post)
Still Sensible Jun 2020 OP
walkingman Jun 2020 #1
Midnight Writer Jun 2020 #9
crimycarny Jun 2020 #15
walkingman Jun 2020 #32
walkingman Jun 2020 #31
MH1 Jun 2020 #25
Thomas Hurt Jun 2020 #2
PTWB Jun 2020 #3
scarletwoman Jun 2020 #4
idziak4ever1234 Jun 2020 #5
elleng Jun 2020 #6
doc03 Jun 2020 #7
tonedevil Jun 2020 #16
qwlauren35 Jun 2020 #8
tonedevil Jun 2020 #10
modrepub Jun 2020 #17
SammyWinstonJack Jun 2020 #35
maxsolomon Jun 2020 #11
crimycarny Jun 2020 #12
MenloParque Jun 2020 #13
BannonsLiver Jun 2020 #19
lostnfound Jun 2020 #14
Beartracks Jun 2020 #18
LanternWaste Jun 2020 #20
jayfish Jun 2020 #21
tonedevil Jun 2020 #23
crimycarny Jun 2020 #26
Skittles Jun 2020 #27
honest.abe Jun 2020 #22
cayugafalls Jun 2020 #24
Kaleva Jun 2020 #28
vercetti2021 Jun 2020 #29
customerserviceguy Jun 2020 #30
GeorgeGist Jun 2020 #33
walkingman Jun 2020 #34
randr Jun 2020 #36

Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:58 PM

1. The people that are using "defund" as an excuse to vote Rethug were never going to vote Dem

this is just a rally call to the GOP base who are desperately looking for some reason to support the Orange man.

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Response to walkingman (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:14 PM

9. I disagree. I know good people that are really upset over this.

The phrase makes it sound like Democrats want to do away with law enforcement.

Of course, it is more nuanced than that, but people who are afraid don't pay attention to nuance.

In an election, if you are explaining, you are losing.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:27 PM

15. Exactly

Haven’t we figured out by now that the vast majority of voters don’t do “nuance”? Remember the death panels?? Haven’t we learned ANYTHING?

Yes changes need to be made to how police are funded versus social programs, etc. But none of those changes are going to happen if Joe Biden doesn’t win the election.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #15)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:05 PM

32. Now I know how Trump won last time. That is crazy. We get the government we deserve.

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Response to Midnight Writer (Reply #9)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:04 PM

31. How about they become informed? No excuse for being led around by the nose. I guess those same

people would vote based upon political ads. So they would vote GOP because of this? Or just not vote? That's ridiculous.

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Response to walkingman (Reply #1)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:28 PM

25. When you tell people you will take away their police protection

they don't care any more about your other positions.

And, "defund the police" may not really mean that (really?) but that is what people hear. Especially with the help of the chattering class telling them what they heard.

Most average people DO think that there is value to having a police department. Of those, all the decent human beings who are paying attention ALSO think there is a desperate need for reform. But their own families and security will come FIRST.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 06:58 PM

2. Cultists have already jumped all over that,

I started seeing it here several days ago and I have been wondering where that came from.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:00 PM

3. But we DO need to greatly reduce police funding

 

Many municipalities allocate over half their budget to the police department. That is insane. Much of that money ought to go to infrastructure and social programs.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:00 PM

4. It came from the protesters. Biden has already said "Reform Police", not "defund police."

Of course the right wing jumped on it, but we don't have to own it.

Just keep saying "Reform Police" - insist on it anytime someone brings up "defund".

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:01 PM

5. Agreed. A gift to Republican trash

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Response to idziak4ever1234 (Reply #5)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:03 PM

6. Yes

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:05 PM

7. I have even heard eliminate the police, that is another

gift to the Republicans. I mean how would that work
some people do need arrested. We have serious drug problems here and shooting every few days . Most of the time it is someone from the bigger cities either Cleveland or Chicago. We do need cops just not bad ones.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #7)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:44 PM

16. When I was in the 6th grade...

 

the police came to our school to tell us about the horrors of drugs which they told us were being abused in epidemic proportions. That was 50 years ago. In that time the police and the legal system have been the primary means this country has used to stop that epidemic. That has been an abject failure. Law enforcement has a pretty clear role in stopping shootings and catching the people who do shoot other people. They need to get the fuck out of drug abuse issues, they have only and really can only make it much worse. That is one area where the police need to be defunded, like it was an elective band program in a public school.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:13 PM

8. If...

you are more interested in counting voters than ending a centuries old corrupt institution that NEEDS TO BE ***DOWNSIZED***. Not reformed, ***DOWNSIZED***, then you may be part of the problem.

That word is accurate. Defund. Spend less money on cops. Put the money other places. On mental health institutions, in infrastructure building to provide jobs.

STOP SPENDING MONEY ON COPS.

I sense that cops make white people feel safe, and defunding them is frightening.

But if a Republican freaks out about defunding the police, breaking the prison industrial complex, and putting the money into our communities, to provide jobs and mental health assistance...

They can go fuck themselves.

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Response to qwlauren35 (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:16 PM

10. Thank you...

 

I took two runs at writing something and was about to take another to try to say this. If only there had been this kind of hue and cry when our schools were being defunded.

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Response to qwlauren35 (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:49 PM

17. Police Are The Last Government Workers With Unlimited Overtime

In my state it's not uncommon for state police to rack up lots of overtime late in their careers to pump up their final retirement pension pay outs. As a government worker, all overtime was eliminated unless it was approved by several layers of management back in the 90s. More often, you were given "comp-time", which is basically paid leave (not a bad thing but not $).

I can see some overtime given the line of work but police departments probably do much more of this than necessary.

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Response to qwlauren35 (Reply #8)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:27 PM

35. +1000000!

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:17 PM

11. Like the 4th post on this topic today.

The DU "Perfect is the Enemy of the Good" Squad is on high alert today.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:18 PM

12. I know, right??

OMG...way to hand GOP the lifeline they needed.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:19 PM

13. Indeed confusing

Out here in far left coast San Franciscans are indeed yelling for defunding (not reform) of police. The message is a bad one. Police hate in the city by the bay is high and gun sales are through the roof. Whoever is in charge of creating buzz phrases needs approval from a focus group. We are missing the mark in catch phrases. No malarkey!

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Response to MenloParque (Reply #13)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:50 PM

19. The purity left eschews tactics which is why their candidates don't win many elections.

Anyway, the Biden camp nipped this in the bud today. So not worried about it. Just more flailing from Donnie Dumpkins.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:23 PM

14. Probably started by a Republican operative or trolls, picked up by politically naiive

Our candidates ought to be saying -
- it’s a far cry from Andy Griffith to Derek Chauvin, and they just need to return to “protect and serve”
- let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater
- if we abolish the police, rich people will be able to hire investigators and security guards, poor people will be defenseless
- your child is kidnapped or your neighbor is robbed, you need police to help you, whether you are poor or rich.

-The same people that don’t want government to provide social security or public schools or a post office or public highways, also don't want government to provide police.

- we should spend less money and police time on victimless crimes and more on solving murder cases, finding rapists, and finding missing persons.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:49 PM

18. OMG yes. "Defund" is, frankly, a stupid word choice....

... because it was so obviously going to be purposely misconstrued on the right to mean "stop funding."

But if we suddenly start calling it something else more appropriate, the right will be all: "See? They had to rename their efforts to hide what they're doing! Make no mistake, they want to abolish cops!!1!!!"

Think how "global warming" became, more accurately, "climate change." Many on the right still think the term was changed because they "proved" the globe wasn't REALLY warming because winter still exists -- thus forcing libruls to come up with some new strategy to brainwash America's kidz into planting trees and to steal all the lucrative research grants or whatever.



When the left comes up with the shorthand names for its proposals, they seriously SERIOUSLY need to consider how the words are going to be interpreted by Joe Sixpack who's not a policy wonk and is not paying a lot of attention to politics, but *is* likely to be targeted for brainwashing by rightwing media.

Make Republicans have to try to explain their opposition to Democratic policies and proposals instead of making it so all they have to do is point at the name and scare people with an easy lie.

=============

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:55 PM

20. There is no effectual message of note intimating as such

 

A handful of ineffectual posters, the sky-is-falling squad and the allegedly concerned seem to be the only ones who bring it up.

Everyone else rolls our eyes at the implication and often perceive (rightfully or no) the latter to be less-than-sincere in an obvious attempt at baiting the lowest common denominator for less than noble purposes.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 07:58 PM

21. Why Does Our Side Always Retreat From The Precipice Of Victory?

When will this mindset go away? They are going to categorize us in the worst way possible on EVERY issue.

DE-FUND THE POLICE!

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Response to jayfish (Reply #21)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:05 PM

23. It's reminding me of...

 

when Secretary Clinton talked about the Basket of Deplorables. Not only did that basket exist it was much bigger and more inclusive of the Republican party than she said it was. There was a mass tut-tut by Democrats that were concerned the feeling of the poor deplorables were going to get hurt. A bit of courage would really be welcome here.

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Response to tonedevil (Reply #23)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:33 PM

26. And...

Hillary lost. The concern was never for the feelings of the deplorables, it was for the way the right would spin it. Hillary already had issues connecting with those in the Midwest. I’m from the Midwest so I cringed when I heard her use that term. Not because she wasn’t correct, but I knew how it would be perceived. “See? Hillary “Wall Street” elitist is looking down on us.” And, no, it’s not a case of those people weren’t going to vote for her anyway. Many were on the fence and that remark fed right into the anti-Hillary right wing narrative.

This is not about whether or not police funding needs a major overhaul...it does...but if we cry “DEFUND THE POLICE” I can 100% guarantee you that will turn off a massive number of Midwest blue collar voters.

So change the message, not the idea.

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Response to crimycarny (Reply #26)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:48 PM

27. gee

are those Midwest folk happy now with the way things have turned out? The message I am getting from them is people can BE deplorable, you just cannot SAY they are deplorable. Sickening.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:01 PM

22. Yeah, it is an absurd message which makes no sense to the average person on the street.

Whoever came up with that should have their head examined.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:22 PM

24. Why not "define and defend" the definition?

Defund means redistribution of the funds currently set aside for the Police.

Defund means reducing funds, not elimination.

Defund means reallocation.

Defund means reform.

Just some ideas...we need to quit running away from our message simply because we get challenged.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:52 PM

28. Joe Biden is against it I believe. Who of import is promoting such an idea?

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:52 PM

29. You guys need to pump the brakes

Seriously this will not stick and won't matter in the coming months. Everyone acting like its giving them a win. People who are voting repug are gonna vote that way no matter what.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 08:55 PM

30. And it also lends itself

to a counter-meme of "Defend the Police". It might bring back the suburban soccer moms that Trump lost in the midterms.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:14 PM

33. First time I heard it, I thought it was stupid ...

I still do.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Mon Jun 8, 2020, 09:20 PM

34. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think Democrats are that dumb.

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Response to Still Sensible (Original post)

Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:44 AM

36. Defang the police would work

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