General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSee, I think that the "photo-op" was a McGuffin
For those of you not acquainted with a McGuffin, it was a device which Alfred Hitchcock termed for an element within his films. The McGuffin was that thing which The diabolical thief or spy was trying to steal or smuggle. The actual content of the material was irrelevant to the process, for example, in the film North by Northwest James Masons character is attempting to smuggle government secrets across the border. We never know what those secrets are, because it doesnt really matter. We know theyre important and what we are concerned with is stopping him.
In the same manner, The walk and ensuing Bible holding was irrelevant. What Trump wanted to do was gas the protesters. Of course, they were no threat to him or the White House, so they needed to create some moment where he would walk out for some reason. Since these people completely lack creativity, and really dont care, they came up with this bogus Bible holding Moment. What he wanted to show what is it he could gas American citizens in the capital and get away with it. The Walk was an irrelevant coda. In other words everything after gassing was all bullshit. This is nothing new, we should be used to this by now.
Speaking of codas, I do recall being told in my youth by my parents at the beginning of the end of Herbert Hoover was when he ordered the military to fire upon the poor demonstrating in Washington. I have never researched the details of that, but presume that it has an element of truth, because I want it to. 😄. Look, if that brand of logic is good enough for Trump it should be good enough for me.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Trump needed to shore up his fundy gun-toting base, too.
PCIntern
(25,554 posts)Anyone who would buy into that is already voting for him and it ran the risk of actually alienating some of those folk. I think if they had wanted to give him a boost with them, they wouldve had to make a statement rather than just stand there like the moron he is. IMO They had him do that like a dog pees on the lamp post To Mark that he was there.m
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Gotta keep it very simple.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Support is mid 80s in a shrinking GOP
"Strongly Support" nationally has gone from high 30s to low 30s across all groups.
The_Counsel
(1,660 posts)You're right: They're probably not going to vote for Biden either way. But they could still vote with their feet.
Or their ass. By keeping it home on Election Day. If they do that, Mr. Trump is toast and everyone knows it. Trump most of all...
homegirl
(1,429 posts)WW 1 vets camped out near the White House. Hoover ordered the American Army to remove them by force. The officer overseeing the action was Douglas MacArthur. The WW 1 vets wanted a bonus to help them through the hard times of the Great Depression.
MacArthur went on to become a hero of the Pacific theater of operations in WW 2. He was later fired by Harry Truman!
OhNo-Really
(3,985 posts)Not sure why there was a rush to disagree with your analysis. 🤷🏻?♀️
You have nailed it. BBoy & his demented crew got the thrill of playing commander-in-Chief!
The Show of Force, the helicopter attack, Lincoln Memorial peppered with armed soldiers, a faux mercenary band of federal policing departments...It was epic and designed to be frightening.....
And it failed.
Some causes are worth the risk.
The Bible prop? That backfired bigly.
OhNo-Really
(3,985 posts)For the filmmaker and drama writing theorist Yves Lavandier, in the strictly Hitchcockian sense, a MacGuffin is a secret that motivates the villains.[20] North by Northwest's supposed MacGuffin is nothing that motivates the protagonist;
NotHardly
(1,062 posts)lapfog_1
(29,205 posts)all the way down to the stormtroopers
perfect opportunity to gage reaction... not from us mind you, but from those he will count on for the military coup he is planning "due to vast voter fraud" and "anti-fa" interference.
RVN VET71
(2,692 posts)Gassing and shooting and crushing beneath the hooves of a horse and beating and kicking them when they are on the ground -- hey, black or white, they all deserve it, gimme another beer, bro', god bless america.
Because, of course, Trump's people never give a thought to the possibility that their guy will turn on them if he thinks he can profit by it. So the violence against the peaceful demonstrators -- hey, says Fatboy Barr, they wiz throwing' water bottles at the police! -- is always a winner with them. the Bible thing was supposed to be an effective display of American Christianity -- but Trump couldn't pull it off. Hell, Jesus himself couldn't have pulled it off given the circumstances. (I know, I know, Jesus himself would have been on the other side of the police line, the side of the people, not the fascist troops.) So in the photo-op, we see a large, obese, man wearing a diaper and holding a bible dispassionately in the air -- upside down by the looks of it -- and it just lacked the pizzazz Fatboy and the Trumplings (I heard Ivanka and DTJr. were supporters of the photo-op idea) thought it would display.
But the lumpen-Trumpians out in the great intellectual wasteland of the GOP's America, they loved everything about it, the screams, the explosions, the cries of pain, and, of course, their leader holding up a bible in front of a church -- whose com-symp priests and deacons had been gassed and chased away by the Secret Police.
Alas for Fatboy and his boss, most Americans, including Republican Americans, thought the whole show was shocking and at best a vicious over-reaction to a peaceful protest. I hope "most Americans" remember in November what they felt on the first of June, and vote accordingly.
Mr. Evil
(2,845 posts)tanyev
(42,564 posts)There are plenty of spots inside and immediately outside the White House if all he wanted to do was hold up a Bible and pontificate incoherently. Why pick out a church that he has set foot inside exactly once and just stand beside the sign board? Not to mention the out of character hike. Bet he was wishing he'd used a golf cart.
mopinko
(70,120 posts)GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)The stunt was largely an attempt to counter the "Bunker Baby" narrative, and I think the gassing was more out of revenge than any show of power. He is a petty, vindictive fucker, after all. The church was the most convenient destination. It was close by, and offered a twofer in being a dog whistle for his religinut base. The Bible holding thing was Trump's idea, and from what I understand, none of his toadies were a part of that decision.
I think the "McGuffin" idea gives them waaaaay too much credit for having intelligence and forethought. Trump is just a fuck-up. Always has been. This stunt was likely just another one of his fuck-ups. It was way too knee-jerk to be a McGuffin. Emphasis on "jerk."
PCIntern
(25,554 posts)that they came up with the idea To gas the protesters. They then had to come up with a rationale for doing so, no matter how thin. So they sent him on a walk and said whats he going to do it the end of the walk? Somebody said have them hold up a Bible. Thatll do it.
GoCubsGo
(32,086 posts)I just think the gassing was a side benefit, rather than the main reason. He was trying to prove that he's not a chickenshit bunker baby. All accounts say that he was fuming over that. From what I understand, the bible thing was his idea, and last-minute. It wasn't part of the plan.
OhNo-Really
(3,985 posts)To see behind the veil of BBoys Out of proportion anti-protest reactions.
Keep analyzing & writing please. Youre a much needed critical thinker & talented writer! Using links helps credibility when you can.
MacGuffin
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin
grantcart
(53,061 posts)In the 39 steps the details aren't known until the end of the movie but it is known to be a German spy ring.
In this case the objective was well defined, an 'iconic' picture of a president in front of a burned out church.
PCIntern
(25,554 posts)Yes we know the general nature in many cases of these McGuffins, but its not like they are, say, your atomic secrets which detail the building of a plutonium reactor. Or, the NOC list of the First Mission: Impossible movie. The individual becomes subject to the film, not the secrets. Thats all I was saying.
In the same fashion, Trump couldve done anything at that church including taking a dump on its front step, and apparently gotten away with it. They chose for him to hold the Bible without commentary. As I said in the OP its like the dog peeing on the Post.
rumleyfips
(27 posts)Isn't an upside down bible used duringva black mass ?
He is the antiChrist.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,107 posts)ms liberty
(8,580 posts)Tear gas smoke and military might on one side, while he spoke at the WH about bringing law and order on the other. But it was also him walking to the church, triumphant in victory and brandishing a bible. It was all about the show, with him it is always about the show and his image. The actual use of violence was just an added bonus and thrill for him.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,056 posts)Yeah, Hoover did that. And I tend to agree with you. With this bunch, the cruelty IS the point. I do, however, think that his handler, Vlad, came up with this idea. He probably had to be convinced to use the rubber bullets and tear gas as opposed to live ammo. Putin's not done with him yet, and if he started mowing down peaceful protestors, there might be 1 or 2 Republicans who would upset enough to talk back to him. Susan Collins would certainly be concerned. Perhaps even very concerned.
http://salem-news.com/articles/november302011/occupy-1933.php
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)create a buffer around him. Because he is an incredible coward.
Demsrule86
(68,585 posts)soldiers who had come to DC to demand their money...they had a tent city which was burned to the ground...I believe it helped get rid of Hoover and elect Roosevelt who saved the country.
RVN VET71
(2,692 posts)He was unable to reach out to the working people -- he pretty much disdained them, but knew them as necessary cogs in the wheel of business.
But the decision to attack and murder WWI vets, given by him, was eagerly carried out by MacArthur. As a small child, I idolized MacArthur -- the sun-glasses and corn-cob pipe convinced my 5 year old self that he was true hero. My Dad let it go until I was old enough to have a few beers with him. One evening, at the local VFW hall -- before I got drafted -- he unloaded to me about his thoughts of "that son of a bitch who attacked Americans" on the mall in D.C. To be honest, I doubted him. I'd never heard of the massacre and the bloodshed -- all of it unnecessary. And Dad pinned the most responsibility for it on MacArthur. So I read up on the veterans march and found out, to my actual dismay, that Dad was spot on. MacArthur attacked veterans and their families even after receiving an order from the President to back off. MacArthur (allegedly) set fire to the veterans' tent city. MacArthur was responsible for injuries, for the death of an infant, for the chaos and shambles created by the assault on the unarmed. And he did it not because he was reluctantly following orders -- as was Ike -- but with zest and a feeling of patriotic righteousness.
Ike, I think, was not a fan of MacArthur -- who was a 4 star General while Ike was, maybe, a Colonel -- but was a military officer who obeyed his boss's orders. Patton at the time was a young Major. I don't know what amount of direct involvement he had in the debacle, but given his reputation, I'm sure he carried out his orders with a gusto unbecoming an active duty soldier attacking war veterans.
Apparently, MacArthur convinced himself -- despite all evidence and intelligence to the contrary -- that these veterans were all communists or Communist sympathizers who must be defeated if the Republic were to survive. Turns out he actually defied Hoover's orders to ease up, choosing not to hear them.
I no longer idolize MacArthur, needless to say. As a general, he did some amazing things, courageous things. But as a human being, he left much to be desired.
Demsrule86
(68,585 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)ewagner
(18,964 posts)His goal, his Mcguffin, was to gas and use overwhelming force on the demonstrators...it was to show that he was following up on his threats...that what was happening in D.C. could (and would) be happening all across the country if the demonstrations didin't quit.
The Bible?
Symbolically he was "rescuing" the bible from the ruins of the church that the "godless" protesters (e.g. black or POC) had destroyed.
It was shallow...hollow...but the threat to the rest of the country was very, very real.
Thirties Child
(543 posts)Stuart G
(38,433 posts)Instead the horror of the police knock down of the protester will get Trump defeated. Trump thinks the pushy, strong armed stuff works. Most of us hate that stuff..
...The knock down of the protestor clearly indicates that the cops were out of hand or ...."out of control"
Exactly the same as the cop with the ..knee on George Floyd...and............
Exactly the same as the out of control situation with the virus..(caused by Trump's ineptitude)
Out of control is very bad for Trump...
Too many voters will vote for Biden because Biden seems more in control than Trump....& ....as I have said before...Trump doesn't have clue
Ligyron
(7,633 posts)Trump is a clueless idiot just like those who voted for him. That's why they love him.
Now that he's President, the GOP machine and operatives clean up one mess after another to the extent they're able to. They're well aware Trump will lose a fair election as is he. He also knows he's likely to be arrested and prosecuted under Federal, NY and other state's statutes and the civil suits will bankrupt him once he's out of office.
He won't go quietly but I believe in the end he will go.
KPN
(15,646 posts)a show of strength (as he perceives it anyway). The Bible photo was secondary to that but also a show. Hes all about looking tough, the definition of a bully. Another definition is a coward who preys on those who are substantially weaker.
SoonerPride
(12,286 posts)None of them are that clever or smart.
Not one of them.
PCIntern
(25,554 posts)Im saying theyre actually rather stupid.
Alex4Martinez
(2,193 posts)I believe it will be the single most defining moment of his political career and downfall.
Which is not to disagree with you. I think your analogy is accurate; the trip to the church was an excuse to go for a walk with his military and piss on the protesters at the same time.
PCIntern
(25,554 posts)PandoraAwakened
(905 posts)Anyone paying attention knew that some excuse, any excuse, would eventually be used by tRump to gas Americans.
Just like we knew that said effort would come about in the same bumbling, incompetent manner in which the stinking orange skidmark has lived his entire life.
ProfessorGAC
(65,061 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)...
I think, sincerely, that Trump and his people wanted to provoke the protesters near the White House to violence. They wanted a riot that could be put down by overwhelming force. They knew that the news networks would play the speech in split screen and what could be better than Trump declaring that "I am your President of law and order" as order was being beaten and tear-gassed into the savages who would dare attack our brave cops and soldiers. Trump wanted to justify his call for violence by showing the world that he could control the burgeoning uprising.
Except that's not what happened. No, instead, the protesters were outraged but they moved. They resisted with voices and with bodies somewhat, but that was it. And the images that were pouring out were not those of brick-throwing "Antifa rioters" being stopped by Trump-ordered force. Instead, they were of peaceful protesters being beaten and tear-gassed. The cops and the troops looked like the savages, the animals, not the protesters.
I think that after ten minutes or so of this, when Jared or Hope or whichever completely amoral puke stain who thought this up realized that they weren't getting their riot, they had to come up with some fuckin' reason for clearing the park (originally, it was supposedly to move barriers), and then Jared or Hope or whichever useless shit smear in the Oval Office quickly said they could walk to that church and take some fuckin' photo and, oh, shit, Ivanka, put this Bible we found on a shelf in your purse to bring because we're takin' a stroll together, all of us, like a group of sheep to the slaughter and hope no one notices how fuckin' dumb this all is.
That's what I believe happened last Monday. And ever since then, Trump has kept making statements and doing things that are calculated to try to push the social, cultural, and historical buttons of the Black Lives Matter marchers. Change the names of forts from Civil War generals to maybe the names of people who weren't traitors? No, fuck that, Trump said, even though the military wants it to happen. First rally since the pandemic shut shit down? Fuck it, let's hold that shit right in the city where white people devastated a successful black community, Tulsa, Oklahoma, and let's do that shit on June 19, Juneteenth, celebrating the emancipation of slaves. And the National Guard's actions at Lafayette Square last Monday? Fuck you, Trump says in a sub-schoolyard taunt, it was awesome because the protesters were pussies.
https://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2020/06/donald-trump-wants-more-violence-at-blm.html
barbtries
(28,798 posts)Hekate
(90,714 posts)...are holding the line.