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Takket

(21,531 posts)
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 06:29 PM Jun 2020

Latest RW lunatic.... Lee was anti-slavery, just wanted to represent Virginia

Would be a shame if a bunch of DUers informed this person that you don't command an entire Army and send hundreds of thousands of people to their grave to preserve an institution you oppose...


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Latest RW lunatic.... Lee was anti-slavery, just wanted to represent Virginia (Original Post) Takket Jun 2020 OP
Lee owned slaves. marie999 Jun 2020 #1
Lee didnt own the Custis slaves gladium et scutum Jun 2020 #12
Then why did he go to court marie999 Jun 2020 #13
When Custid died gladium et scutum Jun 2020 #19
Okay, marie999 Jun 2020 #21
Pretty much the case. gladium et scutum Jun 2020 #22
Bullshit angstlessk Jun 2020 #2
People should post that she's right, Lee loved black people, LuvNewcastle Jun 2020 #3
Well, that's actually off of Twitter. GoCubsGo Jun 2020 #23
There's nothing "latest" about that argument JHB Jun 2020 #4
Harry Turtledove's "Guns of the South" Jeebo Jun 2020 #5
Why don't you ask him yourself. He's on twitter and hates right wing trolls. madinmaryland Jun 2020 #7
Let would never have freed slaves. He refused to free his own slaves. yardwork Jun 2020 #26
He 'wanted to represent Virginia', well sure that's appalachiablue Jun 2020 #6
I've always heard Light Horse Lee died of a lightning strike. You ever hear this? GulfCoast66 Jun 2020 #10
No I haven't heard that but he supposedly was appalachiablue Jun 2020 #14
Interesting. Ironically, I am a Custis descendant. At least the book I have shows it. GulfCoast66 Jun 2020 #15
A docent I worked with, a fmr NE college prof appalachiablue Jun 2020 #18
Virginia Had a Good Team in 1860-Had a Real Chance at the National Championship Stallion Jun 2020 #8
A good team in the Eastern Conference gladium et scutum Jun 2020 #20
There's a sprawling memorial in DC to Lee's achievements struggle4progress Jun 2020 #9
And the first page of VA's confederate constitution Captain Zero Jun 2020 #11
And the Confederate Constitution explicitly prohibited states from banning slavery. NYC Liberal Jun 2020 #16
I think BGBD Jun 2020 #17
So, he was against slavery, but he wanted to fight for a place that was GoCubsGo Jun 2020 #24
This lie isn't new. It was made up more than 100 years ago. yardwork Jun 2020 #25
 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
1. Lee owned slaves.
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 06:37 PM
Jun 2020

He inherited them and was supposed to free them in 5 years. He petitioned the court to extend the time but was denied. He said they were better off then they were in Africa and it prepared them for better things. Historium Robert E Lee and Slavery

gladium et scutum

(806 posts)
12. Lee didnt own the Custis slaves
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 10:02 PM
Jun 2020

They were the property of the Custis Estate. Lee was one of four men named in the Custis will as executors of the estate. The last of the Custis slaves were freed 5 years and 2 months after GWP Custis's death.

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
13. Then why did he go to court
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 10:43 PM
Jun 2020

to extend the time they had to remain as slaves? They were freed 5 years later because his petition was denied.

gladium et scutum

(806 posts)
19. When Custid died
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 06:00 AM
Jun 2020

his several estates and properties were in deep debt. Lee was authorized to retain the slaves long enough to pay off the debts and legacies of the estate, but for no longer than 5 years. As Lee worked the slaves to pay off the debts, he may have realized that five years was not going to be long enough to meet the terms of the will vis-vis the debts and legacies clause. He went to the court to request to extend the time period beyond 5 years.. Anyway, Lee did not wait till 4 years 364 days and 23 hours to free the Custis slaves. The first of them in some of the outlying properties were freed starting 4 years after Custi's death. The last few slave were freed 5 years and two months after Custis died.

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
21. Okay,
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 08:01 AM
Jun 2020

so he felt that paying off another man's debt was a good reason to keep people in slavery. Got it.

LuvNewcastle

(16,838 posts)
3. People should post that she's right, Lee loved black people,
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 06:39 PM
Jun 2020

especially black women. He had numerous affairs with different black women and had lots of illegitimate children with them. That should get her going. I would tell her myself, but I swore off Facebook years ago.

JHB

(37,157 posts)
4. There's nothing "latest" about that argument
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 06:39 PM
Jun 2020

It was part of pasting white hats on the Confederates and black hats on Reconstruction.

Jeebo

(2,021 posts)
5. Harry Turtledove's "Guns of the South"
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 06:42 PM
Jun 2020

Turtledove is known for alternate-history science fiction novels, and "Guns of the South" is one of the best ones I've ever read. I've only read it once, though, and that was quite a while ago. It was a time-travel tale about some racist South African apartheid guys who wanted the South to win the Civil War, so they manage to steal some time on a time machine and travel back to early 1864 and start passing out AK-47s to Robert E. Lee's troops. That enables Lee's Army of Northern Virginia to invade the north and march on Washington and win the war.

And then, after the war, Confederate President Robert E. Lee emancipates the slaves. As I said, it's been a while since I read that novel, but as I recall, freeing the slaves is one of the first things President Lee does.

Is Harry Turtledove a right-winger? I have no idea what his political leanings are. But this post made me think about that novel, and I just wanted to share this with y'all.

-- Ron

appalachiablue

(41,105 posts)
6. He 'wanted to represent Virginia', well sure that's
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 07:38 PM
Jun 2020

where the property, estate, mansion and slaves his wife inherited from her father were located.

Rubbish, the 'Virginia connection.' Besides, Lee was a career U.S. federal army officer for decades before the Civil War, the only job he could get because he had no land. His father Henry Lee screwed up, was bankrupted and relatives lost the 'ancestral Va. home,' Stratford Hall.

R. Lee, his mother and siblings, 'poor relations' had to live off his mother's relatives in Alexandria and elsewhere as a result.

When R. was age 5, his father, Rev. War hero, 'Lighthorse- Harry' Lee left the U.S. c. 1812 after suffering serious injuries in a Balto. mob and departed for Barbados. Years later on the way back to Virginia, Henry Lee stopped at Cumberland Island, Ga. where he died.



- Townhouse in Alexandria, Va. where RE Lee grew up after his father departed for the West Indies.



- Stratford Hall plantation where RE Lee was born, but didn't grow up in because his indebted father had to sell it.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
10. I've always heard Light Horse Lee died of a lightning strike. You ever hear this?
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 09:47 PM
Jun 2020

I know he never Fully recovered from the injuries he received in Baltimore.

appalachiablue

(41,105 posts)
14. No I haven't heard that but he supposedly was
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 12:51 AM
Jun 2020

tagged 'Light'-Horse Harry Lee due to the lightning speed at which he chased Brit troops during the Rev. War. But how ironic if the lightning story is true. I've read that Harry may have also had PTSD. ~ Anne Hill Carter's wealthy father, owner of Shirley Plantation in Va. did not want her to marry Harry and become the 2nd wife of a widower with 3 children. Perhaps for other reasons too.

The marriage happened anyway and added 6 more children. After Harry lost money in the Panic of 1796-97 and left Anne & the children living on reduced means, university education for Robert who was bright was unaffordable, so recommendations from relations helped get him into West Point. References were not uncommon.

Robert m. cousin Anna Custis, only child of GW Parke Custis (GW's adopted grandson), a slightly eccentric character & owner of Arlington House. Only one of Robt. & Anna's 6 children ever married. ~ I think calls for Arl. House to be repurposed or taken down may recur, esp. in troubled times.
------
At an Alex. historic property, the director once told me last minute I had to staff an upcoming Saturday tour for 100 Washington-Custis-Lee family members. I was ticked (she often did this kind of stuff & didn't last long). But I found enough guides in 5 days, thankfully fewer people showed up & it went ok.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
15. Interesting. Ironically, I am a Custis descendant. At least the book I have shows it.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 01:00 AM
Jun 2020

But ironically before these events. My family settled in Virginia in the 1660’s.

I really am not that interested in the genealogy thing.

appalachiablue

(41,105 posts)
18. A docent I worked with, a fmr NE college prof
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 01:29 AM
Jun 2020

was a relative of Italian artist Modigliani and her family had to flee Italy during WWII. She married a Custis of Va. who she met during the war.

My paternal side from Dorset, England also located to the Va. Colony in the 1660s, a lot of that going on!

In addition to the history and artifacts I find personalities of the families interesting. And you have to know a fair amount about them them for context, interpretation and working with collections.

Stallion

(6,473 posts)
8. Virginia Had a Good Team in 1860-Had a Real Chance at the National Championship
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 08:17 PM
Jun 2020

no wonder he wanted to play War with his Home State

gladium et scutum

(806 posts)
20. A good team in the Eastern Conference
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 06:03 AM
Jun 2020

In the Western Conference, another championship quality team was developing. We know the results of that Super bowl.

Captain Zero

(6,790 posts)
11. And the first page of VA's confederate constitution
Fri Jun 12, 2020, 09:58 PM
Jun 2020

States in some manner, like all the confederate state constitutions did, ON THE FIRST PAGE, that they will be a slave holding society.

NYC Liberal

(20,135 posts)
16. And the Confederate Constitution explicitly prohibited states from banning slavery.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 01:06 AM
Jun 2020

“States’ rights” my ass.

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
17. I think
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 01:17 AM
Jun 2020

it actually was a pretty close call on which side Lee was going to end up on.

I doubt it was his love of Virginia that made the decision. I think he probably agreed with the southerners but was conflicted to fight against the United States and the army he had made a career with.

He made the wrong choice.

GoCubsGo

(32,075 posts)
24. So, he was against slavery, but he wanted to fight for a place that was
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 09:34 AM
Jun 2020

starting a war in order to retain slavery. Wow. That is some twisted logic right there.

Love those Iron Crosses there, Violet. Judging by your Twitter feed, I'm betting you shout "Seig Heil!" on a regular basis.

yardwork

(61,542 posts)
25. This lie isn't new. It was made up more than 100 years ago.
Sat Jun 13, 2020, 09:42 AM
Jun 2020

This entire fantasy about the South was created at the turn of the last century by white supremacist groups. They're the people who put up the Confederate monuments all over the south, created Jim Crow laws that oppressed black people and kept them from voting, and wrote school curricula that are total fantasies about "happy slaves" and "kind owners." The author of Gone With the Wind perpetuated and popularized this myth, and it's perpetuated to this day.

It's a bunch of lies that millions of white people firmly believe are true.

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