Not much surprises me but.....

[ripcord]

A Japanese-American friend of mine was wondering when the FDR statues were coming down since his executive order locked innocent Japanese-Americans in concentration camps.

[Under The Radar]

1. Yea, and burning Mark Twain books, Jefferson monuments

Teddy Roosevelt, Indian mascots etc. I see the point that people are offended but there is going to be a tipping point that takes this too far and then we will see things backfire.

[PTWB]

11. It isn't so much that people are offended

People don’t want to live in a society that glorified and monumentalizes white men who oppressed minorities, regardless of their positive contributions to society.

As long as you allow monuments to white men who actively oppressed minorities, or turned a blind eye to said oppression, you allow the systemic oppression to continue to this day.

As far as I am concerned we should tear down every statue, raze every monument, rename every school and military base, and relegate these white “founding fathers” to the history books. Teach our young about their positive contributions and also about their misdeeds.

[Under The Radar]

17. Two men on Mt Rushmore were slave owners

One freed his slaves upon his death, which only shows that he feared hell but knew that it was wrong, the other coined the phrase equality for all men, couldn’t free his because they were assets that creditors had rights too.
Each man on Rushmore was great, each one had a dark past too that wasn’t admirable.
Do we bomb Rushmore?

[PTWB]

18. We should definitely do everything we can to return Mt. Rushmore to as close to natural as possible

Not only is it an abomination to have monuments to white slave owners, but it is an abomination to desecrate such a beautiful natural landmark.

[Under The Radar]

19. That is an extreme in the wrong direction.

I have been a proud Democrat my entire life and that’s where I stop.
None of those men are on that huge engraving because of the mistakes that they made, it is for the advancement of good will for the common man, that is why they are there. I am all for putting MLK or Jim Thorpe next to them but removing the originals makes no sense whatsoever.

[PTWB]

23. The desecration of nature is more than enough reason to remove that carving

Teach about them in the history books. Don’t immortalize them on the side of a damn mountain.

THIS IS SYSTEMIC RACISM AT ITS CORE

[Under The Radar]

32. Make that argument before building monuments, not after 4 generations

Because there are religious monuments that come into play as well that fits into your protest. My point is that your view is extreme and a minority of people would agree with you, and then an extreme authoritarian like Trump and McConnell will use your views as an example to enrage the majority in order to remain in power and subjecting our society to a police state controlled by a dictatorial regime that will never again have a chance at democracy. We are damn near at that point now.
Continue the peaceful protest, start going door to door with petitions, Raise awareness, elect the type of representatives to government that Agree with you peacefully, legally. It takes time to do things that way I understand, but in the mean time you have time to read a few books about Thomas Jefferson, who was quite the revolutionary himself in his day, and you may just form a little different opinion.

[PTWB]

33. Religious monuments can go, too, while we are at it.

[Snackshack]

2. He has a point.

If you look close enough at any one person this country has memorialized you are bound to find something that would be viewed as a negative in this time now.

The people we have made statues of lived in a different time. We cannot put todays expectations on people who lived 50-100-150-200+ years ago. The world was a different place.

[dweller]

3. which one in particular is he concerned with ?

the one in Crimea?
or Uraguay, Mexico, London or Norway ?

or is it the Memorial in DC that Clinton installed?

curious minds 🤔


✌🏼

[LuvNewcastle]

4. There wouldn't be many statues left standing

if we pulled down all the ones who committed wrongdoing. I think some people just enjoy tearing them down. I wonder if we'll replace the statues with others that are more to the liking of protesters, or if we'll just have a lot of bases without statues.

[PTWB]

12. We should tear them all down.

Teach about these white men in history books. Teach about Lincoln signing the emancipation proclamation alongside lessons about his shameful actions toward native Americans. Teach about FDR’s new deal alongside the Japanese American internment camps.

But to allow monuments and statues to these deeply flawed WHITE MEN?

No, we don’t need those.

[Polybius]

20. Tearing down this one would be a challenge

[Dem2theMax]

27. That one stays. nt.

[Mariana]

5. Right now, I think every statue should be taken down, wherever possible

and put into storage for the time being.

[pink]

9. What about the poor pigeons n/t

[HotTeaBag]

10. Why?

Just curious.

[Mariana]

15. Temporarily, to protect them from damage.

Later, when things have calmed down, most of them could probably be put back out.

[HotTeaBag]

31. Gotcha.

Good idea.

Passions are running really high right now (and rightfully so), but when that happens there is a tendency to not think clearly, especially in a group, and there may be some statues that would be better off protected before we do something that might be regretted later.

I think we need to examine our history and truly understand how we got here - not erase it entirely - without it there would be nothing to learn from.

[Drunken Irishman]

6. There aren't many statues of FDR in the United States - certainly not a lot of public ones.

The only FDR statue I know of in the US is located at his memorial on the mall.

[SharonClark]

7. Why not! It's seems inevitable that every statue

in the US on public property will be brought down. I can’t think of a single statue that won’t offend someone.

Can you?

[PTWB]

13. I agree. We don't need statues of flawed white men.

[Polybius]

21. Statue of Liberty doesn't offend many

Plus it can't be torn down by a few ropes.

[cayugafalls]

8. I never locked anyone in concentration camps, but I would fail a purity test miserably.

I still consider myself a good guy because through growth and learning, I have become more than I was. What started out under bad circumstances was saved by time and the ability to change.

How do we define "goodness"?

When is wisdom gained an asset?

When does forgiveness kick in, if learning and growth has occurred?

How do move forward, if our eyes are constantly focused on the past?

I don't really have any answers, trying to erase the past is a really sticky wicket. Where does it end? I am all for statues that cause questions and teach history. We have an opportunity to upgrade and be honest, rather than tearing down everything and erasing history.

Create new plaques that mention the bad with the good. Teach that not all things are great, yet they are a part of our collective history.

[PTWB]

14. Remove the statues and monuments.

Teach the good and bad about them in history books, where they belong.

[cayugafalls]

26. Why? Those men and monuments are not defined by any one incident.

They are not being honored for systemic racism, unlike the confederate statues.

I, personally, do not want to derail the current cause for some ideological false equivalency.

See post 22 for a better, more succinct post on this.

[PTWB]

28. Imagine being a young African American and seeing a monument to a white slave owner

Or being a young Native American and seeing a monument to someone who was responsible for a portion of the genocide your ancestors experienced.

Why do we need monuments to these people? Why are the history books not sufficient to memorialize their good - and horrible - contributions to our country?

[cayugafalls]

29. I understand.

[sfstaxprep]

16. Good Luck Bringing Down The Washington Monument nt

[StarfishSaver]

22. The statues aren't honoring him for the bad things he did, but for the good

As I said in another thread:

The difference is that those actions did not define [FDR, etc.] or their legacy

No one expects leaders to be perfect.

And we don't expect these men to be. They are revered and honored DESPITE their imperfections. And those blots are not what defined them nor did they make up a significant portion of who they were as leaders.

The Confederate heroes are honored BECAUSE they were Confederate leaders, i.e., they betrayed the Union to fight to maintain slavery. They're not being honored because they were great generals. They got their butts kicked big time. They're not being honored because they grew and changed and became good men who improved the world. The only thing they're being honored for is the worst aspect of who they were.

Not the same.

Please don't allow false equivalence to diminish the very valid reasons this nation needs to stop lionizing Confederate criminals.

[uponit7771]

25. +1

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. Taking down all the statues gets us very close to

those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.

[Nevilledog]

30. +1