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Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:05 PM

It's not the flu. You may not want to read this, but you need to.

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2020, 08:21 AM - Edit history (1)

Coronavirus autopsies: A story of 38 brains, 87 lungs and 42 hearts

What weve learned from the dead that could help the living

When pathologist Amy Rapkiewicz began the grim process of opening up the coronavirus dead to learn how their bodies went awry, she found damage to the lungs, kidneys and liver consistent with what doctors had reported for months.

... snip

Autopsies have long been a source of breakthroughs in understanding new diseases, from HIV/AIDS and Ebola to Lassa fever and the medical community is counting on them to do the same for covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus. With a vaccine probably many months away in even the most optimistic scenarios, autopsies are becoming a critical source of information for research into possible treatments.

... snip

Microclots in lungs

One of the first American investigations to be made public, on April 10, was out of New Orleans. The patient was a 44-year-old man who had been treated at LSU Health. Richard Vander Heide remembers cutting the lung and discovering what were probably hundreds or thousands of microclots.

... snip

Heart cells


The next organ studied up close was the heart. One of the most frightening early reports about the coronavirus from China was that a significant percentage of hospitalized patients up to 20 to 30 percent appeared to have myocarditis that could lead to sudden death. The condition involves the thickening of the muscle of the heart so that it can no longer pump efficiently.

... snip

He said a couple of patients he performed autopsies on had gone into cardiac arrest in the hospital, but when he examined them, the primary damage was in the lungs not the heart.

Brain grid

If you have one blood clot in the brain, we see that all the time. But what were seeing is, some patients are having multiple strokes in blood vessels that are in two or even three different territories, Fowkes said.

More: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/01/coronavirus-autopsies-findings/


The article is worth the click.

***Link not behind a paywall thanks to Niagara in post #15: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/coronavirus-autopsies-a-story-of-38-brains-87-lungs-and-42-hearts/ar-BB16dALn

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Reply It's not the flu. You may not want to read this, but you need to. (Original post)
MelissaB Jul 7 OP
CaliforniaPeggy Jul 7 #1
at140 Jul 7 #2
oswaldactedalone Jul 7 #5
qazplm135 Jul 7 #7
at140 Jul 7 #19
qazplm135 Jul 8 #39
at140 Jul 8 #46
qazplm135 Jul 8 #47
certainot Jul 8 #29
BigmanPigman Jul 7 #3
BGBD Jul 8 #34
qazplm135 Jul 8 #40
abqtommy Jul 7 #4
yellowdogintexas Jul 8 #27
abqtommy Jul 8 #42
D_Master81 Jul 7 #6
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 7 #17
at140 Jul 7 #20
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 8 #28
certainot Jul 8 #30
2naSalit Jul 8 #32
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 8 #33
2naSalit Jul 8 #36
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 8 #38
2naSalit Jul 8 #44
RainCaster Jul 7 #8
SoonerPride Jul 7 #9
AlexSFCA Jul 7 #10
lastlib Jul 7 #12
captain queeg Jul 7 #13
Ms. Toad Jul 7 #16
lastlib Jul 7 #18
Kali Jul 8 #25
AllyCat Jul 8 #24
captain queeg Jul 8 #41
AllyCat Jul 8 #48
PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 8 #35
AllyCat Jul 8 #49
shanti Jul 8 #51
lastlib Jul 7 #11
The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 7 #14
calimary Jul 8 #45
Niagara Jul 7 #15
dmr Jul 8 #52
grantcart Jul 8 #21
Hekate Jul 8 #22
niyad Jul 8 #23
yortsed snacilbuper Jul 8 #26
lambchopp59 Jul 8 #31
Sugarcoated Jul 8 #37
Niagara Jul 8 #43
Sugarcoated Jul 8 #50

Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:13 PM

1. This is a superb article, full of interesting facts. Definitely worth reading. n/t

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:16 PM

2. I have increased my exercise time by 25%

I do treadmill set at 3 degrees up-slope, moving at 22 min/mile, 5 times every week.
My exercise time for each session is now 32 minutes instead of previous 26 minutes.
The stronger the lungs are, the better chance of surviving lung infections by germs and viruses.
This has also dropped my blood pressure to 125/78. Not to mention keeping weight under control.
I am 80 years young and plan on making it to 100. The exercise is giving me tremendous energy.
I do not take any nutritional supplements, except a daily vitamin tablet and D3 vitamin pill.
My lawn is about average size and I can mow the entire lawn with a push mower without stopping.

Exercise is the greatest help to old guys like me to feel and stay and look young and fight disease.
Every one thinks I am no older than 65 years which makes me smile.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:41 PM

5. Keep up the good work.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:48 PM

7. I mean good grief...

if you are doing that at 80, I am thinking 110!

I'm at 50 and I run slowly 3-4 times a week for 30 minutes at a time (up four stories of a parking garage then back down, sorta mild hill repeats if you will). It's a little hard because it's usually in the 80s to 90 even at midnight when I run, but like you, I'd like to make it to 100.

Good luck and sounds to me like if you don't make it, it won't be for lack of trying!

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:26 PM

19. Please please try your best to keep it up

You do not need to over-exert yourself. More important is to not miss many exercise days.
After reaching medicare eligibility age, just walking briskly for 30 minutes 5 times a week on a flat surface is sufficient exercise to keep heart and arteries in good shape.

In my case, I began my treadmill routine at age 76 because we had moved to a condo community and there was a gym conveniently accessible.
As the years are passing by, my energy level and leg strength seems to be keeping up instead of dropping.

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Response to at140 (Reply #19)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 03:52 AM

39. I'm 225 so I can't get any fatter

So I don't have a choice lol the military took care of exercising for most of my life but it also destroyed most of my joints which makes exercise harder and day on day off necessary but I usually get in 3-4 runs a week.

If my shoulders ever get less painful I'll add in some push-ups.

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Response to qazplm135 (Reply #39)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 09:51 AM

46. You will be surprised of the regenerative powers our bodies have

Never OVER-EXERT any muscles when one gets older than 50.
Because body does not bounce back and heal like we did at age 20.

I had hip joint pain at age 55. I figured I was a candidate for joint replacement.
I also had high blood pressure at 55, so I ended up retiring at age 57.
Health is 100 times more important to me than accumulating money.
To kill time, I took up walking on golf course playing 9 holes.
Golf to me is the least boring exercise.
To make long story short, in a couple of years, I was playing 5 rounds a week of 18.
That is walking 30 miles in a week, pushing the golf cart.
My hip joint pain went away and blood pressure dropped closer to normal.
And chest pains after a good meal of steak went away!

I quit golf at age 76 after moving to Florida. Too hot here and expensive to play golf here.
So now it is treadmill.

In summary, take it slow, but just keep at it. Everything will get better with persistence.

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Response to at140 (Reply #46)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 10:04 AM

47. Again just retired from the military

So I never stopped 😉 but have had to slow down. No cartilage and joint degradation means I gotta be smart with my exercises moving forward or the pain is too much.

Knee braces and off days help.

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Response to at140 (Reply #2)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:42 AM

29. for people without the treadmill running around the couch might help

or table or even chairs

going around in small 8-10ft circles reduces the pounding of jogging outside. the faster you go the more it gets like skating, with very little impact and one side doing different then the other. i switch directions every 5 min. i can do about 1.5mi+ every 20 min. it's prob good exercise for eyes too if you can look away from the ground

figure 8s around two chairs on the patio is slightly more challenging

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:23 PM

3. Lots of neurological and vascular damage...

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Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #3)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:35 AM

34. That's....

not what's it is saying. It is claiming that people who died from it had that much of their lives taken away. That on its own it suspect enough based on the method they used to get to it...


According to the years-lost scale of the World Health Organization, a person aged 81 who died of COVID-19 has lost 14 years of his life. While those who died in their fifties without any underlying conditions has lost around 35.81 years.


I don't know that we can assume a person is going to live to 95 just because they are healthy at 81, or that they will live to 90 because they are healthy in their 50s.

I definitely know that we are decades away from knowing what kind of effects COVID-19 infections will have on someone throughout their lives.

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Response to BGBD (Reply #34)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 03:54 AM

40. Actuarial science

Is pretty good. If you make to age x on average you are likely to make it to age y.

If you make it to 80, on average you live longer past that than you might think.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:28 PM

4. Dayum! I'm sure glad I'm masking and distancing and sanitizing and hand-washing! I don't want

this virus messing me up at all!

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Response to abqtommy (Reply #4)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:41 AM

27. we wash our produce with soap and hot water and wipe down all containers with wipes

then wipe any surface the bags were sitting on. Most of my dry goods come out of the packages and into Tupperware canisters immediately.

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Response to yellowdogintexas (Reply #27)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 06:20 AM

42. Yup, I do that too. So far so good!

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:45 PM

6. Luckily 99% of cases are harmless

Sarcasm

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:25 PM

17. It is true that a significant percent of those who get it

have few or no symptoms. Perhaps one of the things that should be researched is WHY there are such huge differences.

In most diseases, the course is pretty uniform, even though outcomes will vary. I don't think I'm aware of any other disease where so many have few or no symptoms, but others have devastating consequences, including death. Although perhaps long-term effects are in some ways even worse.

But take ordinary flu. You get it. You are sick. Some people get pneumonia and die. Others recover. And those who recover rarely, if ever, have lasting effects. Same with any other disease I think I know about. Measles. As bad as it can be, it's not as awful as this can be. But again, a significant percentage have few or no symptoms. Why? That is the giant puzzle.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:45 PM

20. IMO your best chance to rebound back to good health from a covid attack is...

if you were strong and in good health to begin with, and that can only happen with regular exercise.

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Response to at140 (Reply #20)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:42 AM

28. At the risk of being argumentative,

I don't think regular exercise is the one and only foundation for good health.

Example. I'm the healthiest person I know at my age (71) and I don't exercise regularly. I know I should, but I don't. I'm constantly horrified at how many people a lot younger than I am have serious health issues, how many have chronic diseases, and so on.

So, I'll match my good health against anyone else's.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:50 AM

30. there was some paper floating around that tied it to roundup weed killer

there are probably a few exacerbating factors like that

glyphosphate i guess - roundup

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #17)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:16 AM

32. There was a medical professional on

Brian Williams' show last night who said what she is seeing in all cases, even the alleged asymptomatic, is lung damage, even those who feel fine. She said they had been doing lung x-rays on everyone they check on and every positive test case they observed had lung damage concluding that there is no such thing as asymptomatic with this virus.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #32)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:33 AM

33. Asymptomatic people having lung damage?

My very first question is why exactly are they checking every single one with a positive test? Where was this? What hospital? How did they track down those who simply showed up for a test? Merely testing positive and they have lung damage? Why am I skeptical of this claim?

I'd like a lot more information here.

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #36)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 03:09 AM

38. Thank you for that.

I will say I'm somewhat surprised that someone can show lung damage on an x-ray and still have no symptoms.

But the real issue is that this is a "novel" virus, meaning brand new, meaning none of us have ever come across it before. Which means none of us (save possible the very rare and anomalous exception) has no immunity, meaning once any of us come in contact with this virus, all bets are off.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #38)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 09:00 AM

44. That would be the take-home message

that I got from this. I have been paying attention and I look into as many new discoveries and claims as I can, seems like a full time job.

This was clarifying in that the claim that anyone carrying this virus will be damaged by it whether it becomes evident to the infected or not right away. For many, lung damage is not noticeable until it becomes bad. Some don't understand low oxygen levels and the dangers of that either.

I have been very cautious when I go off the property and even around the place. There is no way I can afford to have such damage being a vocalist and outdoors person. I'm already winged by arthritis so I am trying my best to avoid this thing while my state is seeing a major increase in cases thanks to tourism and my proximity to to major attractions. I can say that I am very grateful that I found this little hideaway to live in as it's still off the beaten path and we don't get much company here outside of the farrier and the vet for the horses and that's not often.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:53 PM

8. Wow, that's some bad shit

I will be keeping my distance.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 10:58 PM

9. Scary AF. Covid isn't the flu. It's a vascular disease.

And nasty as hell.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:03 PM

10. are there any long term effects for asymptomatics or those with mild symptoms?

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Response to AlexSFCA (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:07 PM

12. Largely unknown, but highly possible.

Until we get to that "long-term," it's pretty much a guess.

It took decades to learn that shingles were an after-effect of measles. We're still studying other diseases resulting from viruses. Just starting to see consequences of HIV.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:15 PM

13. Measles? I thought it was chicken pox?

At any rate lots of us who are older have had both. I just got my shingles vaccine this last winter. Ive known people whove gotten shingles and it some bad shit.

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Response to captain queeg (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:25 PM

16. You are correct - it is the chicken pox. n/t

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Response to captain queeg (Reply #13)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:25 PM

18. There may be a connection to both

Doing some more looking, I'm not totally clear. Here's one explanation:

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-measles-and-shingles/

The key difference between measles and shingles is that the primary infection with the virus causes measles but shingles occur due to the reactivation of the virus that remains dormant after the primary infection. Measles is an acute and contagious disease caused by a virus and characterized by the outbreak of small red spots on the skin whereas shingles is a disease caused by the varicella-zoster virus, especially by reactivated virus, characterized by skin eruptions and pain along the course of involved sensory nerves.

Measles and shingles are viral infections that are typically manifested as skin rashes along with other constitutional symptoms.


Here's another:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/shingles/symptoms-causes/syc-20353054

Shingles is caused by the varicella-zoster virus the same virus that causes chickenpox. After you've had chickenpox, the virus lies inactive in nerve tissue near your spinal cord and brain. Years later, the virus may reactivate as shingles.

While it isn't a life-threatening condition, shingles can be very painful. Vaccines can help reduce the risk of shingles, while early treatment can help shorten a shingles infection and lessen the chance of complications.


You decide, I'm kinda confused at this point.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #18)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:36 AM

25. no confusion

"Measles and shingles are viral infections" infectionS plural - two different infections

varicella-zoster virus causes both shingles and chickenpox, measles is caused by Rubeola virus

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Response to captain queeg (Reply #13)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:30 AM

24. I have permanent nerve damage in my face and ear from shingles

Super painful. Was on multiple medications for 8 months to control the pain enough so I could work and sleep. Was unable to get a vaccine due to shortage. After I got it AGAIN this past winter, they finally made the series available to me.

Cannot imagine what COVID is doing to people.

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Response to AllyCat (Reply #24)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 06:17 AM

41. So you can get shingles and then get the immunization and prevent another episode?

I guess Id have thought youd have to get the immunization prior to your first episode. Thats good news if you can still get the shots after your first episode and not have to go thru it again. It took me about 2 years to finally find someone who had the medicine in stock. Every time I saw my doc Id ask and always checked the local pharmacies. There was always a long wait list. Finally found a place late last year. Got the second shot a couple months ago.

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Response to captain queeg (Reply #41)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 11:18 AM

48. That is the thinking. Since this vaccine has only been out a few years

and it is possible to get it more than once, the hope is it wont happen again now.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:39 AM

35. We have known for decades the connection between chicken pox and shingles.

I know you merely misstated this. I've been aware of the connection for at least 40 years.

Here's the worrisome thing about this, and I'm somewhat oversimplifying it.

In the past, before a chicken pox vaccination, pretty much everyone got it and it was around all the time. Which meant that people who'd already had chicken pox were re-exposed to the virus throughout their lives. Apparently, that kept the virus quiet, instead of getting bored, acting up, and causing shingles.

Nowadays, thanks to the vaccine, younger people are never going to get chicken pox. Hooray! And because they will never get it, they will pretty much never get shingles. Double hooray! However, us old folks, who got chicken pox back in the day, still have the virus in our system, and for any number of us, it will wake up, look around, and decide to manifest as shingles. Goddammit.

Fortunately, there is a vaccine for the shingles. I've gotten the original one, and I still need to get the new, 2 shot version.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #35)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 11:19 AM

49. Yes. Shingles definitely on the rise.

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Response to lastlib (Reply #12)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:36 PM

51. Even polio

has a post-polio syndrome.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:03 PM

11. The more I read about this beast, the worse it looks.

We are idiots if we don't mask up, distance out, and shut down to the utmost extent that we can until the curve is FLATTENED, and the beast is tamed. Until a vaccine is proven, there is no sensible alternative. Yes, it will be painful, but I think the alternative, the current course, will be far worse. I fully expect we will be dealing with this monster and its effects for decades.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:18 PM

14. This is some nasty stuff. I'm going to keep doing what I've done since early March,

which is staying in, not going anywhere that I don't need to (and always wearing a mask when I do), and getting stuff delivered rather than going to stores. As a retiree I have the good fortune of being able to stay holed up indefinitely and I realize that not everyone has that option. But although my health is good for my age, I also realize that even without any underlying health problems, an older person has a less robust immune system and is therefore more susceptible to getting the virus and getting much sicker from it (or worse). That's just one of the unfortunate side effects of aging, regardless of how healthy you are otherwise - and even young, healthy, athletic people have died of this thing. So I'm staying put and waiting it all out, no matter how long it takes. I want to outlive this thing and that's the only safe way to do it.

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Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #14)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 09:45 AM

45. That's kind of where we are, too.

Retired, no further parental obligations (than keeping in touch, that is), simple needs, only go out when needed, and ordering what we need via delivery. And Zoom meetings for Indivisible work. And maintaining vigilance. And mask-wearing - always.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Tue Jul 7, 2020, 11:20 PM

15. Kicking for visibility!

I had to read this article from another source because of a paywall that I couldn't bypass. If anyone else has this issue, I'll be linking the same article from msn.com since this is a must read.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/coronavirus-autopsies-a-story-of-38-brains-87-lungs-and-42-hearts/ar-BB16dALn

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Response to Niagara (Reply #15)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 10:22 PM

52. Thank you nt

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:01 AM

21. Kick

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:13 AM

22. Kick

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:17 AM

23. KNR and bokmarking for later.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:38 AM

26. Kick

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:12 AM

31. It is this macro-analysis and new micro findings about COVID 19 that make this a novel coronavirus

Which has a mechanism for invading neighboring cells more quickly than ever before seen. COVID 19 has been found to have little tendrils on it's crown tips that eat away at the cell walls, making their way into interstitial tissues and neighboring cells, taking over the replication factors. Vicious little assimilators, vs. the flu viruses that are relatively "stupid" in neighboring cell invasion, only happens classically when cells have replicated so much of the virus they "burst".
This accounts for the cases of perfectly healthy and strong individuals who by genetics lack resistance, get sick and succumb so quickly.

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Response to MelissaB (Original post)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 02:23 AM

37. Wish I could but there's a paywall

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #37)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 07:47 AM

43. Please see #15

I had the same problem.






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Response to Niagara (Reply #43)

Wed Jul 8, 2020, 01:34 PM

50. Thank you, Niagara!

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