Apple stores not allowing masks with filters inside the store

[underpants]

I was just at one for an “appointment” and while in line one of the employees brought me a disposable blue mask. Apparently this came from the top and it’s “new”.

???

Battery is pretty much dead on my iPad Air. I’m getting a new one for $100. It should arrive midweek.

[tanyev]

1. What the?

[underpants]

2. I don't know.

He couldn’t explain it just that’s it’s new policy.

I’m pretty sure the masks my wife got (we have replacement filler thingies too) are top notch.

[LisaL]

5. What kind of mask do you have?

If it's a reusable respirator, it likely has an exhalation valve? If it has a valve, then it doesn't offer protection to others, only to you.

[underpants]

11. Uh

Don’t know. It does have a pocket inside for an insert filter thingie.

[Blue_true]

52. The problem is those masks have been shown to not protect people other

than the wearer. Other masks do a better job of protecting the wearer and other people.

If you have one of those masks, put a piece of filter or cloth over the exhaust port, that helps protect people. Or just wear a mask that doesn’t have a filter. I have found that two ply cotton masks are comfortable for me, O can stay in them for long periods. I have a filter mask, but the synthetic material makes me uncomfortable after 30-40 minutes in the mask

[bamagal62]

3. Well if it has a valve filter

It actually lets air/breath escape and doesn’t protect others.
Many places are not allowing those to be used.
I have some of those to use for art projects and if you blow into the valve you can see the filter open and let air out. Those are really designed for people in painting or construction and they only filter incoming air.

[underpants]

6. Even with an insert?

I didn’t know.

[LisaL]

12. What does it look like?

Is it a cloth mask? Does it have plastic valves on it? That look like plastic circles?

[underpants]

15. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[LisaL]

16. Those plastic circles are the exhalation valves.

Your exhaled air is going out unfiltered. So you are protecting yourself but not others.

[uppityperson]

19. They can be taped over to make those valves inoperable

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

23. That defeats the main purpose for a non-N95 mask.

The slogan is, "I wear my mask for you, you wear your mask for me."

I'm surprised Apple hasn't produced an iMask yet.

[Ms. Toad]

27. If you are talking about a homemade mask, that is not what they are worried about.

The filter pocket holds something that will give you extra filtering (a coffee filter, a tissue, non-woven fabric).

Those have no impact on how much protection it offers others (or may even have a positive impact, since it would also filter more of your exhaled breath).

[LisaL]

7. They are good for covid too if they have the right filters for particulates.

But they are only good for the wearer, not for others, since exhaled air goes through the valve and thus not filtered.

[ecstatic]

64. Why am I just now hearing about this, 5+ months into the emergency?

I don't wear valve filter masks, but I had no idea about this. I see those masks for sale all the time online. I imagine there are many people spending a lot of time around other people who are wearing valved masks. Basically sitting ducks.

[Renew Deal]

4. The good news: you got a free mask

😷

[underpants]

8. Yeah. I have a couple of those in the car should I forget

any of my others.

[LisaL]

9. I would personally be really upset if I was asked to wear a lesser quality mask.

Not all N95s have an exhalation valve. I would like to know what their exact policy is.

[frazzled]

10. And they shouldn't

Masks with air filters do NOT protect others. You might as well not wear a mask at all, because you could be spreading your germs to everyone.

[LisaL]

13. That is absolutely false. Masks with exhalation valves don't protect others.

Filters are the things that filter air.
People seem to be confusing two different things-valves and filters. Filters are not a problem. They are filtering air. Filters are what can make mask more safe.

[frazzled]

17. Valves is what I meant, and what

The op probably meant.

When you wear a mask with a valve, a significant portion of your exhalations are entirely unfiltered. A normal cotton mask is far from perfect at capturing virus particles that you might inhale or exhale. (Surgical masks were originally invented to protect patients from coughing and sneezing, not pathogens from the air!) But when you add the valve, you aren’t even filtering your breath with cotton. Your mouth is essentially an open exhaust.

[LisaL]

18. I know that.

You don't want to wear a valved mask because it doesn't protect others. But my concern is, there are all kind of different masks, and how is a store clerk supposed to know what is good and what is not?
Are they asking people to change all of their mask for a blue mask? Only masks that they think have valves?
I would not change my quality mask (that doesn't have a valve) for a blue mask. I would have left.

[frazzled]

20. They mean this

As I mentioned in another post, my ophthalmologist required no valved masks and no cloth masks. In fact none of your own masks at all: had to ask for the surgical mask at the lobby desk to get in the building. Of course, ophthalmologists are right up there in your face, really personal, so I could see this requirement. They wouldn’t even want someone wearing their own surgical mask, since it might have already been contaminated, or worn previously.

[LisaL]

25. I know what valve looks like.

The issue with demanding everyone wore surgical mask is that surgical mask doesn't provide a good seal. Not really good against an airborne virus to protect the wearer of the mask. Good enough to protect the others.

[frazzled]

28. If everyone else wears a mask, problem solved

In the case of my ophthalmologist, we were both surgically masked, so I was protecting him and he me. Was I totally comfortable about it? No, but it was an important (and several-months-delayed) post-surgical visit.

We have a variety of triple-layer surgical masks, plus two types of cloth masks (one from 3M). None are N95s. This is what is recommended for citizens. I feel safe enough in them, especially as our outside contacts are extremely minimal (hell, we hardly ever leave our home, even for a walk; we have to go up to our roof to breathe air, and lately it's been too hot for that, except to water plants early in the morning). So far, it's gotten us through five months of this thing, so I'm going to keep wearing them.

[LisaL]

31. They are recommending cloths masks for citizens because to this day they can't make

enough proper PPE. Not because cloth masks are really wonderful and provide consistent protection. Cloth masks provide extremely variable protection based on what they are made from. They also don't provide a good seal.

[Blue_true]

53. What I do is spray my mask on all areas with 91% alcohol, then leave it to dry.

I have two cloth masks that are two ply, with a nose clip. The seal feels good, and they are comfortable to wear for extended periods.

[LisaL]

54. it's recommended by cdc that cloth masked be washed. And you can't spray N95 masks with alcohol,

because that leads to them losing filtration efficiency even if they still look o'key.

"Cloth face coverings should be washed after each use. It is important to always remove face coverings correctly and wash your hands after handling or touching a used face covering."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-to-wash-cloth-face-coverings.html

[Blue_true]

57. 70%+ alcohol kills Covid. I spray both sides and the ear clips to saturation, so the alcohol from

skin side joins up with the public facing side. I use 91% alcohol and will soon change to 99.5% alcohol (I found a source). I feel safe with what I am doing.

[LisaL]

58. Alcohol is not recommended.

"Alcohol: Alcohol, either diluted or fully concentrated, is not ideal for cleaning masks -- and definitely not filters. Alcohol is too harsh on these materials and will likely cause the filter to dry out and lose its function. Even in the case of using detergents to wash masks and filters, it's best to use alcohol-free formulas."

https://www.chicagotribune.com/consumer-reviews/sns-bestreviews-health-clean-and-sanitize-face-masks-20200429-srmekcorhjhxrikcj4elno22ie-story.html

[Tipperary]

69. I go out so rarely, I do not worry about this.

I see no reason to be out and about.

[Iggo]

29. If you know, then so does the store clerk. (n/t)

[LisaL]

30. I am really not going to assume that everybody knows what I know.

There are reusable masks that look, lets say, unusual.
That's what I am using.

[MoonlitKnight]

66. Many of these have a replaceable filter

It goes in a pocket inside the mask which filters the exhaled air before exiting through the valve.

Unfortunately you can’t tell from the outside if the person has inserted the filter.

[sl8]

67. Are you sure about that?

Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2020, 11:15 AM - Edit history (1)

What would be the point of an exhaust valve that doesn't bypass the filter?

Can you provide examples?

I do have masks with replaceable filters and valves (RZ brand) and the filters have a hole in them to accommodate the valve. I wear them for woodworking and other dusty activities. Of course, other brands could vary, but to what end? The whole purpose of the valve is to make exhaling easier by bypassing the filtering element.

On edit:

I also have a couple of the half-face, elastomeric respirators that use the replaceable cartridge/cannister type filter elements. Obviously, the exhaust valve is physically separated from the filters on these.

[LisaL]

74. Yes, all the valved masks I have seen, there is a hole in the filter where it comes in contact with

valve. So just because valved mask has a filter, doesn't mean exhaled air is filtered.

[LisaL]

73. If you look at that filter, filter will have a hole where it comes in contact with valve.

[MoonlitKnight]

75. No hole

Mine must be different.

[krispos42]

68. Except that if I don't get covid-19... I can't exhale covid-19

I wear a respirator with P100 filters are work. My coworkers are doing a shit job with the surgical masks now, noses uncovered all over the place and many people take them off if they're not near somebody.

Now I am in Connecticut, so we're all in a smart blue state that is way past the peak. Their behavior is probably not that important at this point... But I don't know. So I wear the respirator, with the added benefit that my nose and mouth are always covered except for breaks.

Somebody noted that seeing how people wear facemasks helps them understand why condoms fail.

[underpants]

14. I had no idea.

[bullimiami]

21. im assuming its the valved masks they dont allow and that would make sense.

but maybe they arent making a distinction for any number of reasons.

i would think thats fine.

[Lulu KC]

22. They've closed their stores in our area for the time being

They are really on this!

[stillcool]

24. learn something new around

here everyday. I'll be on the look-out for exhalers with filters.

[underpants]

26. Me too

Yikes. I just meant as a public service announcement

[stillcool]

36. Apparently masks

have quite the re-learning curve. Thanks for the info!

[JI7]

43. The news media should explain this but I can see MAGASHITS going out

to get those masks and purposely use them to hurt others and then claim victimhood when not allowed into places becsuse of those.

[LisaL]

49. Some are already wearing lace masks for that purpose.

[KPN]

32. Good. I wish every vendor and every local requirement prohibited use of valved

masks. When I see people wearing them, it pisses me off. From other people’s standpoint, they might as well not be wearing one. The valve is to allow you to exhale with no filtration — it’s for the user’s comfort as is the mask. Valves masks have a place for sure — in a shop, when spray painting, sanding/grinding, mowing the lawn during pollen season — but that’s it when it comes to the purpose of masks when it comes to COVID-19.

[LisaL]

33. They might not even know there is an issue.

There should be more education.

[JI7]

44. yup, most people know nothing about it. I learned about it

from following some links on here early on.

But I can see people thinking they are better just becsuse they have that extra thing.

[LisaL]

47. They are better for the wearer because they are easier to breathe.

They don't make your face hot. They allow for easy exhalation so you can breathe freely. Of course with covid, just being good for the wearer is not good enough.

[moonscape]

59. I didn't. I had a Vogmask N99 that

I had gotten a year or so before for protection in crowded places during flu season due to cancer. I only learned the valve was an issue a month or so ago when going to a medical facility. They gave me a paper one to wear instead.

Now I know, but I loved my Vogmasks!

[LisaL]

61. I looked on their website and seems everything is sold out, but they have masks without valves

now. Assuming they go back in stock and you can breathe in them.

[moonscape]

62. Thanks! Great news, if

I can ever find them in stock.

[LisaL]

72. They are promising to have new masks this Monday.

So I would check there Monday morning.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. So why do valved masks even exist?

[LisaL]

37. Because they make it easier to breathe.

They are not designed with covid in mind.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. What in the world are they intended for?

I honestly have no idea.

[LisaL]

46. A lot of valved N95 masks are intended for industrial use.

Construction work and so on. So you are not breathing in dangerous particles. Cloth masks with valves are mostly intended for pollution, which is a big problem in some countries.

[Flaleftist]

50. They can be used while sanding drywall/wood.

That creates a lot of fine particles that you do not want to inhale. Also, while using paint sprayers and spraying chemicals like pesticides.

[LeftInTX]

76. So you can breathe out easily

I've never worn a valved mask, but I know wearing a mask, especially an N95 gets hot and difficult to breathe. I constantly have to take breathing breaks when I wear my cloth mask. (about one every 5 minutes or so)

The valve masks are designed for protecting your lungs against stuff you inhale like dust, air pollution, smoke etc. I assume the valve increases the wearing length of time.


I did find another great use for our cloth masks: Have you ever dealt with a bunch of household dust while cleaning? Like the out of reach shelf or ceiling fan etc? Put on a mask!!! It makes cleaning them bearable.

[JI7]

40. I think they were more for people who did things like garage work

and toxins, fumes etc from that work.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. That's helpful.

Thank you.

[KentuckyWoman]

45. The valve is one way... outgoing.

It's highly useful for industrial purposes. My husband was a woodworker and cabinet maker. I gave away an almost full full box to a local kitchen remodel shop.

[KT2000]

35. Maybe because of this -

A video I watched on the subject said that in order to catch the medium sized particles, a filter that has been electrically charged. Medium sized particles move through mask materials differently that small and large ones.

A customer with such a mask may disrupt some of Apple's equipment?

[Stinky The Clown]

39. You probably mean a mask with a valve or a pair of valves

They were all the rage for a while but it turns out they’re pretty unsafe. The valve has no filter and just expels your breath straight into the air. They are being increasingly banned because of this.

[LisaL]

48. Valved masks are just fine if the goal is to protect wearer from pollution or dangerous dust.

Of course that's not good enough for covid, because the goal is to protect others from the wearer. But a lot of masks for general public were designed without covid in mind.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. All true

[JI7]

42. Good for them

[Flaleftist]

51. If you have an N95/N100 with a valve, then just put a surgical mask over it.

[flamingdem]

55. Hasn't this been debunked?

The air is filtered on the way out too, no?

[LisaL]

56. No.

If you masks has a valve, our exhaled air is not filtered.

[Mr. Ected]

63. Wish this had been a thing before I dropped $40 on 2 valved masks in April

Or at least I hadn't learned of the issues of the valve releasing non-filtered air. That SO defeats the purpose I can't understand how so many vendors are peddling them still.

[Stinky The Clown]

65. We bought three of them. Then I bought a lot of replacement filters

Now it turns out to be a total waste of money.

[LisaL]

71. You can put something like a surgical mask or a cloth mask over the valved mask.

You can also seal off the valves, although I am personally not sure how it's done.

[LisaL]

70. They are much easier on the user.

People are complaining that masks are hard to breathe in. Valved masks make it much easier to breathe. Which is obviously fine if masks are used for pollution or woodworking, but not fine for covid. Most cloth masks weren't designed to fight viruses. I think now you are going to see more masks are being designed for covid specifically.