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Nevilledog

(51,103 posts)
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 12:25 PM Aug 2020

How cities can tackle violent crime without relying on police

https://www.vox.com/21351442/patrick-sharkey-uneasy-peace-abolish-defund-the-police-violence-cities

One of the most robust findings in criminology is that putting more police officers on the streets leads to less violent crime. Yet, as recent police killings and violence against protesters have reminded us, policing also produces staggering costs that many communities are no longer willing to bear. These seemingly incongruous views represent a tension at the core of any efforts to reform, defund, or abolish policing.

Few scholars have wrestled with this tension as rigorously as Princeton University sociologist Patrick Sharkey. In his 2018 book, Uneasy Peace: The Great Crime Decline, the Renewal of City Life, and the Next War on Violence, Sharkey makes the case that the decline in violent crime in America over the past three decades is one of the most important social transformations of our time. At the same time, he argues the US’s chosen methods for responding to violence have become far too destructive, and offers an alternative vision for public safety that relies primarily on communities and residents, not law enforcement.

We are currently being forced to confront a question that has animated Sharkey’s work for years: How can we continue to reduce violence, but do so using a model that relies far less on police and prisons? That’s a much harder question than simply asking whether some of the jobs police currently perform can be replaced — and it demands an even more rigorous answer, especially considering the extent to which high levels of violence can devastate disadvantaged communities.

I recently spoke to Sharkey about what’s causing the uptick in gun violence in big US cities, whether there is an inevitable trade-off between reducing police presence and reducing violence, his vision for a community-driven approach to public safety (and the evidence base behind that vision), what he thinks the “defund the police” campaign gets right (and wrong), and more.

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How cities can tackle violent crime without relying on police (Original Post) Nevilledog Aug 2020 OP
I will read the article in depth more in a bit but I am thinking about the situation in Portland. CentralMass Aug 2020 #1
The thing that aggravates me is that the perception is just democratic supporters jimfields33 Aug 2020 #2
I've been in Oregon about 5 years now and am commenting with that history and events an timeline. CentralMass Aug 2020 #3
Interesting! SheltieLover Aug 2020 #4

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
1. I will read the article in depth more in a bit but I am thinking about the situation in Portland.
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 01:15 PM
Aug 2020

I understand the outrage that the George Floyd killing ignited and I am among the outraged and support BLM. I also think that we are a country in decay. We seem to have gone backwards in many ways with race related issues. Our way of life, the ability to earn enough money to live and die with some level of quality and security is eroding. I can understand that all these issues and those that I haven't experienced as a fairly old white guy have brought people to a flashpoint.
However what happens here in Portland doesn't seem productive.
when tRump got elected there were nation wide protests. Here in Portland at night rioting ocurred and buildings and cars were vandalized, burned etc. It went on for days. I won't pretend to know how the police operate here in any great detail but from what I see they are a very good proffesional police force.. I know that is through 60 year old white eyes and perception. I think that if anything they in general have, inexplicably, given the rioters a wide berth. A chance to let the pressure valve let some steam escape. But the trouble makers don't want to stop, they have their own agenda. tRump winning was the trigger point for that round in Portland a blue largely liberal city who voted heavily for Hillary Clinton.
The latest round that started on night one of the George Floyd protest was as another violent night of rioting. In other cities a predictable rioting event would have most likely been met with a bigger police presence to prevent it and maintain order. In both of these situation it appeared to me that a small group of individuals in a sea of protestors were bent on violent destruction and provoking a fight with the police.

Defunding the police is not the answer in my opinion. The events here show they are needed and need to be properly funded including funds for training.

jimfields33

(15,794 posts)
2. The thing that aggravates me is that the perception is just democratic supporters
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 01:21 PM
Aug 2020

protest while conveniently forgetting the tea party protests all over the country in 2009 and on. The media treated it as quaint. Why don’t we get the same coverage?

CentralMass

(15,265 posts)
3. I've been in Oregon about 5 years now and am commenting with that history and events an timeline.
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 01:37 PM
Aug 2020

I know we have some right wing groups like patriot Prayer and the proud boys. They had some counter protests in 2017 and 2018 here in Portland and both seem to have been formed around 2016. However I have to say from what I saw they were/are not responsible for the vandalism in these night time rioting events in Portland. Yes they are assholes who came with guns clubs etc but the other groups is a bunch of thugs too and the group responsible for the vandalism and picking a fight with police night after night.

SheltieLover

(57,073 posts)
4. Interesting!
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 01:42 PM
Aug 2020

Tough questions for sure.

I think police are necessary to deal with violent crime, sadly.

Here in the Memphis area, there are numerous shootings / deaths on a daily basis, hit & runs, leaving the victim for dead in the street, facebook / craigs list scams resulting in deaths, violent & horrific child abuse (rapes etc.), people being stalked coming out of grocery & other stores, then mugged / beaten severely / shot, many spontaneous shootings on interstates in this region ... all the time. Constantly. To the perpetrators, I suppose this is "having fun."

Several months ago, the head of the Chamber of Commerce was shot leaving an event downtown. The perps were teens who said they hadn't targeted the man. They were "just looking for someone to stick up to have some fun."

How do you rehabilutate people like this? And how could a non-police-type agency deal with this type of behavior?

So much so that the police cannot even hire enough officers. I think I read recenty that they need 700 more officers, but nobody wants the jobs., understandably. This has been an ongoing problem.

Vetting of officers is a problem as well. They are so desperate to hire people and favor military veterans that perhaps they are getting some folks who joined the military because they wanted to kill people. (Not saying all military folks are that way by any means, but it is a well known fact that there is a percentage who are this way.)

I know these are extreme examples, but many people here are relieved when they learn the Feds are sending in agents to deal with gangs & violent / gun crime. There is an unbelieveable attitude of entitlement in this region that is completely uncontrollable. And the courts keep letting them back out on the street to repeat offend.

I've lived here for 3 miserable years now & covid isolation is not much different than pre-covid because of the crime. I'd never even imagined such a place existed in our country, to be honest.

When I first moved here, I was shocked to learn that there had been 7 violent attacks at the only grocery store within a reasonable distance (in a very nice area!) in one weekend. People being mugged / severely beaten, robbed , and shot -- all in broad daylight. I learned quickly not to leave the house except for essential activities.

I do not see social worker types being able to deal with the sort of brazen, violent criminal elements here to be quite honest.

Undoubtedly, some of the above is due to systemic racism, but not all perps are people of color by any means. So, good paying jobs, education/ training might help in some instances, but many people here appear to favor crime as an easy & fun lifestyle.

One thing that might help would be to somehow instill the concept of boundaries in the police officers. People largely do not "get involved" because the police will blurt your name out to the accused which nearly always initiates waves of intense vandalism to cars, homes, etc. But, generally, boundaries I think are a cultural thing. I've chatted with officers in a few southern states about this and they always chuckle and say something like, "well, yeah, it's the south. People are all going to talk." 😳

Heck, shortly after moving here, I approached a group of officers in a restaurant asking about resources. The one said, "well you can call (name) & wrote down a phone number. Then he continued with, "call anytime except (days / times) because he works at (business name). "

I was shocked & asked if he was serious.

"Oh, yes ma'am, he is doing under cover drug work there." My head just about exploded that he had just potentially put another officer's life in danger! 🤯

So, while I very much favor proactive mental health, community involvement, and social work solutions, I think many problems are systemic and run much deeper.

A short-term solution, in my opinion, would be to not release violent criminals back onto the streets. I know that's harsh but what about the rights of law abiding citizens? 😏

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