Theodore Roosevelt V throws massive, deserved shade on Trump

[Dennis Donovan]

Link to tweet

Ted Roosevelt V @RooseveltTed

To folks recently comparing Trump to Teddy Roosevelt. TR did not like those who dodged their military duty, hid in bunkers at the first sight of danger, and eschewed science.

I doubt he’d appreciate being compared to a man who does all three. Also it’s absurd.

6:16 PM · Aug 8, 2020

You don't mess with the Roosevelt!

[mr_lebowski]

1. SNAP! (nt)

[SharonAnn]

55. Not to mention "trust busting" x breaking up monopolies.

[captain queeg]

2. Also the dumbasses comparing him to Churchill

[malaise]

3. Well Churchill was an avowed racist so there's that n/t

[cab67]

24. yes, but he could read and write.

In English. And...

...he had a quick wit and sharp sense of humor.

...he was able to pull people together in a crisis with a certain amount of humility (unlike Trump, he learned from his failures) and an understanding that they were all in it together.

...he served in uniform in combat.

...he didn't make a habit of pissing off his allies.

...he devoted his life to public service.


Winston Churchill is remembered as a deeply flawed but inspiring man who rose to greatness in spite of those weaknesses.

Trump will be remembered as a failure who got nowhere on his own and made the world a worse place than when he started.

[malaise]

25. Public service to who?

Sorry

[cab67]

27. his constituents

He served in the House of Commons for, at different times, Oldham, Manchester NW, Dundee, Epping, and Woodford.

Rather than slinking back to his mansion after the Dardanelles campaign he planned fell apart, he served in combat in France. (He was actually still an MP at the time.)

You're absolutely right that he was a racist. He was also an unrepentant imperialist and proponent of eugenics. But while these might also describe the current occupant of the White House, Churchill was capable of putting his skills toward the good of his country.

[llashram]

31. exactly

to who? Not sorry for stating the obvious.

[llashram]

28. so if I have this right

all the positives, army, served people, hated wogs, makes him being an avowed racist okay? He did everything for the entitled race and gave less than a damn about brown races. I just can't see it, but a lot of people can and that causes me to realize racism is okay if there are positives to point to, correct? "Great men" being racist does not make them great in my book. It makes them hateful human beings.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

39. No, it does not mean that Churchill was a paragon of virtue

He was, however, a great man. During the Second World War, he was an inspired and inspirational leader. Yes, he was deeply flawed, but that does not mean that he also had great virtues.

[llashram]

42. true

yet...virtues that benefitted who?

[cab67]

45. The people of the UK.

[llashram]

52. I'm sure some of the people

of the UK did.

[cab67]

44. Did I say it excused his racism? Or call him a great man?

I assess people based on the entirety of their being.

[llashram]

53. good to know

[cab67]

56. I don't believe in the concept of "great men and women."

I believe there are human beings that accomplish great things, sometimes in spite of serious character flaws. Churchill is one such person - his leadership during the Second World War helped save the world from totalitarianism and genocide, even though he was a racist and an imperialist. One can admire his ability to learn from his mistakes and acknowledge his own shortcomings, as well as his mastery of the English language and sharp wit, while also remembering that he fought tooth and nail to keep the British Empire intact, held those not of Anglo-Saxon descent to be beneath him, and could be seriously arrogant.

Pretty much anyone held by others to be "great" can be tarred in some way by their shortcomings. Theodore Roosevelt was a racist. So was Gandhi, for that matter. And Lincoln. Many of our most revered leaders, including FDR himself, expressed antisemitic views. MLK wasn't always faithful to his wife. The list goes on.

We used to forget about the failings of such people in an effort to maintain the illusion of greatness. When I was in high school in the early 1980's, there was a miniseries on one of the networks on the life of George Washington. In one scene, he saw one of his slaves weeping and, when asked why, was told the man's wife and children had been sold. Washington was then shown running full-tilt toward the wagon where the woman and children were being loaded, tricorn hat flying off his head, shouting, "We don't break up families! We don't break up families!" The point was to put one of Washington's greatest failings - that he owned slaves - in as much of a positive light as they could. See? Yeah, he owned slaves - we can't ignore that in this day and age - but he was one of the "good" ones. It wasn't biography as much as hagiography. Viewers would have learned more had the existence of slavery at Mount Vernon been portrayed more realistically.

I sometimes wonder if we go too far in the other direction by remembering the flaws, but forgetting the accomplishments. People aren't caricatures, and those we encounter in our history books shouldn't be portrayed as such.

[llashram]

57. everyone has their take

on "great" human beings. And "too far"? Accomplishments that are beneficial for some, whether defeating Hitler or the Japanese what about the black lives that returned and still faced racism north, south, east and west. Defeating Hitler didn't do a thing for the black vet. Yet from the Buffalo soldier to Vietnam we served and were continually spat upon literally and figuratively and bled and died just like any white soldier. This I learned in college after Vietnam because of the confederates that flew their flag in Vietnam, proud and loud to counter "black power" and pride in blackness. "Black and Proud". Drove me to really study white racism and how deeply ingrained in this culture it is.

In my day the only one that cared was MLK, alleged philanderer that he was. A racist pig by the name of Hoover finally pinned that one on MLK. Yet flawed as Dr Martin Luther King was, his greatness lay in the fact that he did, in the end, help all people by ridding some whites of the burden of their racist hate and fought for black, brown and poor peoples rights to equality, fairness and justice. And when he turned against another racist war in Vietnam his days were numbered. None of the others mentioned did anything like that nor faced assassination.

Your perspective is recognized and understood. All those people you mentioned were flawed and some egregiously so. Yet with most being racist to one degree or another, the accomplishments can only be seen by me as being done with one race in mind.

Accomplished people for sure, no taking that away from them.

[IronLionZion]

38. Some dumbasses support the Bengal Famine

and other racial atrocities committed in the colonies rather than defending the UK from Nazis.

[llashram]

58. good to know

[efhmc]

4. Teddy Roosevelt was an amazing human being in all areas of his life.

He overcame physical problems and deep grief to lead our nation when we desperately needed it. I was explaining to my younger family members that once there were people who believed that wealthy and privilege in this country came with the responsibility to help others. People were also taught that helping others was a part of being a true follower of Christ.

[grantcart]

12. His home schooling and conquering his childhood asthma by creating

Massive lungs was astounding.

His anti corruption campaign that cleaned up NY was exactly the opposite of Trump.

His father, one of the richest men in the country, spent the civil war creating an allotment system for soldiers to remit part of their pay home, solving the number 1 morale problem for families who were starving waiting for money.

As you indicate many wealthy saw their station as an opportunity to serve and TR father's spent the war going to camps signing troops up.

He was stoic but very emotional too. His beloved mother and wife died on the same day and he could never speak of it the rest of his life

I agree with you, a fascinating man and a great President, the opposite of Trump in every way.

[pandr32]

50. +1

[keithbvadu2]

14. Noblesse oblige has become greedy narcissism and entitlement.

Noblesse oblige has become greedy narcissism and entitlement.

[First Speaker]

16. He was, I think, the ablest man ever to be President...

...which isn't quite the same thing as being the greatest President--he never faced the times that, say, Lincoln or FDR did. But if the GOP establishment hadn't cheated him of the nomination in 1912, he would have been President in 1914. Had he been, the history of the 20th century would have been totally different. It's inconceivable that World War One would have broken out--or lasted as long as it did--if Teddy had been there instead of Woodrow. In which case, he probably would have been our greatest President...

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

40. World War I would have broken out regardless of who was the US President. n/t

[llashram]

29. Yeah amazing, true, yet

https://www.liherald.com/stories/was-teddy-roosevelt-a-racist-you-decide,126499
All great things that were done by the so-called "great men" were not for all people, just the entitled people.

I am sick and tired of racism being ignored because some entitled people think their deeds outweigh their racist attitudes. It does not.

[soldierant]

34. I don't see it quite that way.

I see words and phrases like "deeply flawed appropriately applied - and I know of no human being who is not flawed in some way.
Accomplishing good things for large numbers of people doesn't make the flaws go away. But the flaws don't make the accomplishments go away either.

[llashram]

41. you are entitled

to your opinion. I also look at the effect of those accomplishments and who benefits from those accomplishments. We are all flawed but our flaws may not be known to a great number of people. Yet there is nothing systemically or institutionally propagating or perpetuating about my flaws. The "great people" can hide their flaws with their accomplishments, I agree, yet their "flaws" are also perpetuated by their hate of "others".

[efhmc]

5. I recommend Ken Burn's "The Roosevelts"

It is a very complete and comprehensive history. Just as one would expect from K. Burns.

[BigmanPigman]

9. PBS is running the series again on Fri nights.

They just showed the years after Teddy was POTUS and FDR was just elected into state office. Teddy was a Dem in my opinion, at least compared to the GOP during my lifetime.

[soldierant]

35. Republicans in my lifetime

(and I assume yours, unless you are over a hundred) don't bear much resemblance to Teddy Roosevelt Republicans. A few, yes By and large, no.

[SMC22307]

20. Seriously. That and the National Parks series need to be required viewing...

by American schoolkids.

[OnlinePoker]

6. TR - Roughriders, San Juan Hill

TR 2nd - General, landed in North Africa and first wave of D-Day despite having a heart condition and arthritis
TR 3rd - Naval Aviator, awarded Air Medal in the Pacific
TR 4th - Served two years with Navy Seals in Vietnam

Donald Trump - My feet hurt.

[keithbvadu2]

23. Trump actually received a Purple Heart

Trump actually received a Purple Heart

https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+got+a+purple+heart&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Today, a Donald Trump supporter handed him a Purple Heart. Trump’s flippant and repugnant reply: “I always wanted to get the Purple Heart. This was much easier.”

[llashram]

30. Kettle Hill was the fight

San Juan while part of the fight, was, in the end, a virtual cakewalk, all politics to make Teddy the First look good. A lot of "coloured, immunes", white people called the black soldiers immunes because they being black would be immune to tropical diseases and the heat, were killed on taking Kettle Hill because the officers knew it was the most heavily fortified. Black American soldiers died there in numbers that woud make one puke if they had to witness it. That immune bullshit was not true by the way.

[LastDemocratInSC]

43. TR junior also won the Medal of Honor.

[irisblue]

7. Sweet Mistress of the Universe. What fool has done that?

OMG!!!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/05/mr-president-youre-no-theodore-roosevelt/

[BigmanPigman]

8. PBS is showing The Roosevelts series right now

(by Ken Burns) and they are up to 1911, after Teddy left office. I don't know how he could be compared to a GOP at all, let alone tRump, boggles my mind. As I watch the show I constantly say, out loud, "How in the Hell is this the GOP party? This is Dem 100%!".

TR busted up trusts, protected natural resources, parks, etc. He was for the military since his own father payed someone to serve for him in the Civil War and even though he loved his dad he hated this fact. He also did a zillion other things that today would be considered Dem and not GOP.

[soldierant]

36. That was Republican at the time. The great reversal of which party stood for what

came in the fifties and sixties, with Brown V Board, hthe Civil rights Act, and the Republican Southern Strtegy.

The nineteen-teens were a time when a Democratic President could have "Birth of a Nation" screened in the White House and prias it highly, and no eyebrow was raised.

[Sloumeau]

10. Trump is not fit to lick either Teddy or Franklin Roosevelt's boots. :) nt

[lpbk2713]

11. It's not even close.

To suggest any similarity at all is a joke.

[Kid Berwyn]

13. Bully!

Absurd thanks to Putin.

[smirkymonkey]

15. Well deserved.

[PatrickforO]

17. Yeah, Teddy Roosevelt was...well, Trump couldn't even hold a candle to him. n/t

[BootinUp]

18. He Rough Rode right over the Donald.

[Cha]

19. Rt!

[SMC22307]

21. The Lincoln Project needs to run with this... and they will be brutal. (n/t)

[Illumination]

22. Is that like comparing a AKC Certified Pedigree dog to a tick infested, mangy, dirty sick stray?

[niyad]

49. I think you are insulting the mangy, tick-infested stray. Even such a one can be brought to

health and well-being, given love and care. Nothing will ever redeem the grotesque, traitorous murderer currently soiling OUR HOUSE.

[Illumination]

54. You're right niyad! So what you're saying is there's no hope for this illegitimate W.H.

squatter mobster. Probably not even a psychiatric ward would redeem him (where he belongs)!...

[niyad]

59. I see no hope for that traitorous murderer. He revels in his dysfunctional horror.

And a belated welcome to DU.

[Illumination]

61. Thank you for your kindness niyad!

[The Genealogist]

26. I think if TR met Trump, he'd put a boot in Trump's ass

TR doesn't seem like the type who'd put up with the likes of that shitgibbon.

[dflprincess]

32. TR was a conservationist who created the national park system

The very system Trump is trying to destroy.

[soldierant]

37. One of the meny systems Trump is trying to destroy.

[niyad]

60. Some off the land used to create the NPS was stolen from First Nations Peoples.

[dflprincess]

62. The entire country was stolen from First Nations Peoples

If Trump were trying to give the NPS back to the them, that would be fine. But his goal is to destroy them by opening them up to drilling and mining interests.

[Blue Owl]

33. Donny's gonna lose his tan with that shade

n/t

[niyad]

46. When we talk about tr's racism, let us remember "the only good Indisn is a dead Indian".

[Dennis Donovan]

47. That was General Philip Sheridan

[niyad]

51. Google teddy roosevelt and Native Americans. That phrase will come up as the title of an

article in Indian Country today, which is a succinc account of tr's views on, and interactions with, the First Nations, along with the complete quote. The fact that tis is one of the images desecrating The Six Grandfathers, land sacred to the Oglala Sioux Nation, makes it even more disgusting. As does reading that the creation of the National Park System was partially a result of stealing lands from the First Nations.

[CBHagman]

48. I've been losing track of Roosevelts lately, but here's a fun fact...

I didn't even know there was a Theodore Roosevelt V, but in a quick online search I discovered that not only is he an environmentalist but he's also a descendant of the Schuyler family, which connection provides a springboard to the requisite Hamilton reference in all this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Roosevelt_V