Ohio Sec of State just spelled out a restriction to the location of drop boxes that appears nowhere

[soothsayer]

Link to tweet

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David Pepper
@DavidPepper
Here it is: Ohio Sec of State just spelled out a restriction to the location of drop boxes that appears nowhere in Ohio statute: “Boards of elections are prohibited from installing a drop box at any other location but the board of elections.”

[hlthe2b]

1. So how fast can they get a court challenge?

I think the local election authorities should band together and inform him that they will just ignore him given no legal authority for what he is doing.

[LisaL]

7. I don't envision any court challenges.

At least that one drop off box they are going to allow per county is going to be well supervised.
Apparently somebody supposed to monitor it all the time. So if you can actually get to the board of election to drop the ballot off, I guess it's going to be pretty secure once you drop it off.

[hlthe2b]

10. That isn't what I am saying. They need MORE drop off boxes, just as we do in Colorado--

not continuously, but in the week before the election at senior centers, a handful of grocery stores, library--all under constant supervision of election volunteers. You go into Safeway, see the set-up and the signs, the three (usually elderly) poll worker volunteers sitting there just to monitor and hand you your "VOTED" sticker. And all also under video surveillance. I dropped off my primary ballot in July at my local Safeway--everyone wearing masks and observing appropriate precautions. This is democracy. I've done so at the same locale or at a drive-up box at a Senior Center (also manned and secured) for several elections now. NO PROBLEMs. NO suggestion of problems. All secured as much as in-person early voting locales are.

Why would you want LESS drop off boxes when they certainly CAN be secured?

We should be going to court to ensure locals can provide MORE!

[LisaL]

14. I don't want less drop off boxes.

But OH never had drop off boxes. I am not sure that even boards of elections had drop off boxes. So they are not restricting drop off for this particular election.

[hlthe2b]

16. I am not a Ohio attorney, but others have stated there is no restricition in law prohibiting

and thus, SOS is making this edict sans any legal authority to do so. Ohio has a long history of such, dating back to former SOS Ken Blackwell and his manipulated voting machines.

Seeing some DUers suggest (as we see on the RW) that adding drop-off boxes--no matter how well secured-- is a horrible premise-- has me absolutely stunned.

[StarfishSaver]

24. I'm with you

Makes me wonder.

[Doremus]

59. Board of election in Cuyahoga County has drop off boxes in their office downtown. nt

[LisaL]

63. That's where the drop boxes are in OH.

Boards of election. They were put there for the primary, since in person primary was cancelled, and will stay for the general election.

[Ms. Toad]

2. That is certainly implied by the language of the law -

and it's a good thing.

Ballot drop boxes should be secure. Boxes at oher locations may not be.

If you haven't been an observer, you may not be aware of how seriously the board of elections takes their obligation to have members of each major party participate in every single step of the process where funny business may occur. There is no guarantee that same care would be taken in other places.

[StarfishSaver]

4. Other states do it with no problem.

Libraries, post offices, etc. in other states have drop boxes and there's no indication that they get tampered with.

Boxes in other places can be secured just as easily and safely as they can be outside of the one Board of Elections location in each county.

This doesn't even allow for placing boxes at polling places to allow people to drop off their ballots on Election Day rather than stand in line and vote inside during a pandemic.

"The boxes will be tampered with" has no more basis in fact than "we need restrictive voter ID to prevent in-person voter fraud." This is a pure effort to suppress the vote. I'm really surprised anyone on DU is trying to defend it.

[Ms. Toad]

5. External drop boxes are an expansion, not a suppression of voting.

Absentee/early voting ballots, by law, are only permitted to be returned to the board of elections. External drop boxes at the Board of Elections is an added convenience specifically in response to COVID 19 for people who don't want to mail in their ballots, who might want to drop them off at odd times of the day, or might want contact-less drop-offs. Adding them at all is an expansion of (not a suppression of) voting.

Ohio law does not permit abentee/early voting ballots to be droped off at polling places. Even on election day, they must be returned to the county board of elections.

Ohio Republicans have (and will continue) to make efforts to suppress the vote. This, however, is not one of them. It is an expansion of options that existed prior to COVID 19 for returning absentee ballots.

[LisaL]

6. You are correct on drop boxes, but I fail to see the reason why OH only allows

one early voting location per county, no matter how big the county is. That puts large counties into a huge disadvantage.
Many other states that allow early voting allow multiple early voting locations.

[Ms. Toad]

46. That, I'll agree is voter suppression. n/t

[hlthe2b]

12. Why the hell are you defending restricting drop-off boxes that can and are secured in other states?

[LisaL]

17. OH didn't have drop off boxes, as far as I can tell.

Because in person primary was cancelled the day before the primary, they allowed one drop box installed per county at the boards of election. These boxes will be kept for the general election. So it's not a new restriction.
That said, no reason why there should be only one early voting place per county, regardless of the size of this county.
And if post office wasn't messed with by Trump and Co, there would be no issue with dropping your ballot into a regular mail box to begin with.

[StarfishSaver]

21. Ohio never restricted drop off boxes so now that people need them

expressly restricting them to one box per county IS a restriction is not an "expansion."

And allowing them only at Boards of Election - where people can already early vote - is hardly a huge help since most people who can get to their county Board of Elections (which can be 30-40 miles away) can probably go inside to vote. The problem is that people need a more easily accessible way to vote and one drop box per county doesn't provide that.

[LisaL]

26. You can't restrict something you don't have.

OH did not have drop off boxes. I agree with you that it's not convenient to have one drop off box. But it's not a new restriction.

[StarfishSaver]

29. Ohio didn't have drop boxes because they weren't needed, not because they were restricted by law

Ohio law does NOT prohibit multiple boxes but the Trumper Secretary of State is now telling counties they cannot use them, without a legal basis. That is indeed a new restriction that has never been imposed before and is not set forth in the law.

Counties previously haven't used drop boxes because they didn't need them, not because of they were prohibited by law from doing so. They are now being exoressly restricted from using them, which is a different thing.00

Think about it this way: Assume the law did not set forth the color of envelopes counties must use to mail ballots, but everyone just happened to use white envelopes. If some counties ran out of white envelopes and started using light blue envelopes and the SOS issued an edict requiring that counties could only use white envelopes and prohibiting the use of blue envelopes, that would indeed be a new restriction, notwithstanding what previous practice has been.

That's what's happening here.

[LisaL]

31. Why exactly they weren't needed in OH as opposed to other states?

I am confused. If post office is working properly, you don't really need drop off boxes at all, regardless of the state, do you?

[lagomorph777]

37. You are aware that Trump is sabotaging the USPS, right?

[LisaL]

40. No, I have been living under the rock.

We are talking about past elections. OH didn't have drop off boxes, other states did. Why did other states need drop off boxes for past election of post office was working well (which it was), but Oh didn't need drop off boxes?

[lagomorph777]

42. OK - yes that's why drop boxes are new in OH. They need to be as easy to access as Post Offices.

...because they are meant, in part, to replace the need for Post Offices in the election.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Ms. Toad]

47. Because it's the law.

Prior to COVID 19 the law was no drop boxes at all; mail your ballot back or deliver it during business hours to the Board of Elections.

Not the expanded option includes a drop box in an external location at the only place that is currently legally permitted for ballot return.

If you want to change the law to make ballot return in more locaitons permitted - great idea. But the reality is that adding a drop box that is accessible 24/7 is an expansion, not a restriction, of options for returning ballots in Ohio.

[hlthe2b]

48. So was notarizing absentee ballot applications in Rhode Island, yet SCOTUS upheld the unilateral

move to remove that restriction due to COVID-19 at the request and behest of their local elections officials, though I believe the governor was in agreement. As to Ohio, I haven't seen the legal verbiage, but other Ohio lawyers (two that I've seen interviewed) have stated that there is no specific restriction and that this is an edict based on nothing by the R SOS. So are you right and they are wrong? The exact verbiage matters as what is not specifically disallowed may well be considered legal in the eyes of a court challenge, especially under public health emergency and related laws. Seems they (those interviewed Ohio lawyers) put their reputation at stake especially given they claimed to be legal election observers in past elections.

[Ms. Toad]

50. I'm also an Ohio lawyer.

And I've been an observer for the democratic presidential candidate in each of the last 3 presidential elections; the last time working within the board of elections as the main connection between the Democratic "war room" and the Board of Elections when trouble in the field needed to be elevated to the Democratic members of the Board.

And i have read the law.

[hlthe2b]

51. So, post the verbiage so others here without access can see for themselves, especially

since there have been other Ohio attorneys publicly stating otherwise. When there is a difference in legal interpretation, most wish to do just that.

[Ms. Toad]

54. Everyone has access. Ohio law is public information -

and frankly, I'm tired of being bashed for stating factually that an expansion is, in fact, an expanstion. I've been teaching law for 6 hours simultaneously in three rooms, and I don't feel like doing the reseach for you or for the Ohio lawyers who apparently don't understand that more is not less and who can't be bothered to give you the text of the law themselves.

[StarfishSaver]

61. That's not accurate

There has never been a law prohibiting drop boxes in Ohio.

The Coronavirus relief bill passed in March directed Boards of Election to provide a drop box at the Board of Elections. That law expired so we're back to the status quo. There is no law that prohibits drop boxes - either one per county or in multiple locations within a county.

But even if your interpretation that no law authorizing it means that it's prohibited, your argument fails. If there is no current law authorizing drop boxes, LaRose has no authority to allow even ONE drop box.

There is no law prohibiting one dropbox at the Board of Elections and there is no law prohibiting multiple dropboxes elsewhere in the county.

[StarfishSaver]

23. Adding a dropbox at one location where people already can vote is NOT an expansion

The problem is not simply that it's inconvenient for people to go inside the Board of Elections to vote once they're there (although it can be because of long lines) but that it is difficult for many people to even GET to the one Board of Elections location in their county.

Under this directive, people have three choices if they want to vote: mail their ballots back in, make their way to the Board of Elections to drop it off, which can be an enormous effort for some people, or vote in person on Election Day, which also may be difficult. And if, as we expect, the Post Office delays the ballots on both ends and people get their ballots very close to Election Day, they may not have any way to get to the Board of Elections to drop them off.

You can try justify this as an election security issue and no big deal, but it has nothing to do with security and it IS a big deal.

[LisaL]

27. We might have to figure a way to give people rides to the board of election to drop off their

ballots. Of course voting by mail is supposed to be the safest way during a pandemic, so getting a ride from someone kind of defeats that purpose.
But there is also another way to drop off your ballot if you get it right before the election and no time to send it back to arrive before the election. Drop it off at the post office the day before the election and make sure post office postmarks it. If your ballot is postmarked at least a day before the election, it has 10 days to arrive.

[StarfishSaver]

30. Imposing circumstances that require this kind of extraordinary effort is voter suppression

That's their goal.

[LisaL]

32. Destroying the post office so it can't deliver mail in ballots is voter supression.

Trump admits he wants post office not be able to do universal mail in voting.

[StarfishSaver]

33. Exactly

Both screw with the post office to make it less efficient AND do it in full public view to shake the public's confidence in the post office so they won't use it AND make alternative means of voting more difficult, if not impossible for some people = a voter suppression trifecta.

[Ms. Toad]

49. Prior to COVID 19

You could vote early, in person, at the board of elections during the hours they are open; you could mail your ballot back to the board of elections; you (or a famly member or a few designated others) could return your ballot for you to the board of elections during the hours they are open.

Now you could vote early, in person, at the board of elections during the hours they are open; you could mail your ballot back to the board of elections; you (or a famly member or a few designated others) could return your ballot for you to the board of elections during the hours they are open PLUS you can drop your ballot off 24/7 at the board of elections.

from a factual standpoint - that is expansion, not suppression.

And you should see a theme in the first list: "at/to the board of elections." Not at the voting precincts. Not at the post office. Not anywhere except the board of elections.

That's the law - the only location for early voting is the boardof elections.

I have no problem with changing the law - but following the law that expands option to return ballots is not voter suppression. Pure and simple.

[StarfishSaver]

62. There is currently no law authorizing drop boxes anywhere in the state. So why is it ok for LaRose

to allow them at the Board of Elections but not elsewhere? If you're believe he is prohibited from allowing drop boxes anywhere other than the Board of Elections because there is no law authorizing them, why do you think he has the ability to allow boxes at the Board of Elections absent a law authorizing them?

[LisaL]

15. I agree with you.

If security is the main concern, OH could have allowed drop off boxes for absentee on election days at polling location. But we can't even drop off absentee ballots inside on election day at the polling location, it has to be board of elections.
Clearly it's also not fair to have only one early voting location per county, because counties are of different sizes, making it a lot easier to vote early in small rural counties than in large urban counties.

[StarfishSaver]

22. You are exactly right about the rural vs. urban locations

This is voter suppression intended to make it harder for minorities, students and low income urban residents to vote.

[hlthe2b]

11. Ridiculous. Colorado secures multiple drop off boxes the week before the election and has for years

See my post upstream. Your assumptions about drop-off boxes not being able to be secured are ridiculously wrong. If Ohio law specifies this (one box only at the official election office), it is being reported otherwise and is something that should rankle the hell out of you as well. It is Ohio, so, I guess I'm not surprised. Decades of such crap, dating back at least the infamous and corrupt SOS, Ken Blackwell in 2004.

[dsc]

18. but since you don't have in person voting you only need one set of volunteers

Ohio would need two sets.

[hlthe2b]

19. We DO have in-person voting as well. You are totally ill-informed on this.

[LisaL]

20. OH has in person voting on election day, early voting in one location per county, and

no reason absentee voting. OH never had drop off boxes as far as I can tell, except they were installed for the primary (since in person primary was cancelled) in one location per county. Normally this would be enough, except Trump is trying to destroy the post office. One drop off box is not what I am worrying about, but the fact that post office is being destroyed. You have to get the ballot first to drop it off anywhere.

[hlthe2b]

25. States mailing them out suffciently early (month ahead of time as CO does) will defeat Trump's

efforts, ESPECIALLY with extra secured drop-off boxes. This isn't rocket science.

[LisaL]

28. It's not going to change in OH.

So like everything else, we have to find a way around it. Like I said, maybe providing people who need it with rides to drop off ballots. A person can also drop it off at post office a day before the election and make sure post office postmarks it.
The ballot will have 10 days to arrive.

[hlthe2b]

13. Wow, just wow.

Yeah, let's make it as hard as hell to even drop off your absentee/mail-in ballot during a Pandemic, rather than, as other states do, securing multiple drop-off locations the week before with official volunteers and video surveillance. Geebus. I can not believe I'm seeing you post this.

[Ms. Toad]

52. They are not making it harder. They are making it easier.

Ohio has not had drop boxes at all. All return options were to the board of elections: vote early in person at the board of elections; mail your ballot the board of elections during the hours they are open; have a family member or an authorized representative drop your ballot off during hours they are open.

Adding a 24/7 option makes it easier, not harder, to drop off ballots.

As to securing multiple locations, you have to make sure there are both democratic and republican voters there. (No party is ever left alone with ballots without the other party's presence.)

.

[hlthe2b]

53. Absolutely not addressing the issue. You need to read my and other's posts

Show me the entire verbiage of the statute that disallows adding collection boxes and hands the SOS all powers inherent in such decisions. And no, ballot collection boxes can be secured in a multitude of ways, including, as in Colorado, picking locations with direct security cameras AND official volunteer pollworkers--not judges. They are only there to monitor the process, thus there is no R v D requirement. Security cameras, locked boxes and location location security officers during hours of operation provide that security.

[Ms. Toad]

55. See my other note.

Too tired. Do your own research - or ask your other friends to give you the verbiage.

[hlthe2b]

58. YOU MADE THE CLAIM BUT REFUSE TO SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENT? I know what that means

"Too tired"...Wow. I guess I should not be surprised. Good to know the next time you claim to hold the answer to a Ohio-specific legal issue despite others publicly stating the opposite of your interpretation.

[Ms. Toad]

60. It means I've had 7 hours of sleep in the last 72 hours.

and I've been on my feet teaching for the past 6 hours, wearing a mask with a plastic window so the 6 hard of hearing folks in my class can lip read, since I can't teach in a face shield. I'm hot. I'm tired. My feet hurt. Once they stop throbbing I'm heading home. I simply don't feel like being a punching bag.

[maxrandb]

3. Let's see what a "great guy" Governor Dewine turns out to be

NEVER, NEVER, EVER give one fucking quarter to POS Retrumplicans.

Many on here have chastised me for expressing what a worthless piece of amphibian shit Dewine is.

"Oh, but he hasn't been a complete dickwad on the Coronovirus... he's a "good" Retrumplican".

Let's see how good he is at reigning in his Dipshit Secretary of State.

My guess is you'll hear fucking crickets from Dewine about this.

[LisaL]

8. I don't think OH had drop boxes before at all.

Now they are allowing one per county. There is one early voting location per county as well. It really should be done by population, because counties have vastly different sizes.

[JI7]

9. Anyone can be a "great guy" next to Trump so that isn't saying much

[Ms. Toad]

57. The governor is not the superviser of the Secretary of State.

They are independent elected officials.

[OilemFirchen]

34. With surprising deference to SOS LaRose, it would appear he's equally displeased:

LaRose said he asked Attorney General Dave Yost for a legal opinion on adding boxes but didn’t hear back so he withdrew the opinion request.

LaRose expressed frustration with state lawmakers who went on summer break without taking action on election administration bills. He called the inaction a “big mistake” and “disappointing.”

LaRose said he asked lawmakers to make changes, such as adding drop box sites, permitting the state to pay return postage for absentee ballots, allowing for online applications for absentee ballots and changing the deadline for requesting an absentee ballot.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/larose-to-ohio-voters-dont-wait-register-and-request-absentee-ballot-now/5LHB34EYQBAJDNTNUXL3JKGXQU/

[LisaL]

35. If anybody is surprised by lawmakers doing nothing to make it easier to vote,

OH government has a republican trifecta.

[OilemFirchen]

41. Indeed.

But this simply reinforces that it's the Legislature that's chock-full of knuckle-draggers. After all, Kasich had to defy them on occasion, and DeWine has even done so, albeit rarely.

It's shocking that these Governors (and, in this case, the SOS) appear to be level-headed by contrast.

[StarfishSaver]

45. DeWineb s only level-headed very rarely - the exception, not the rule

And after an initial burst of sanity at the begining of the pandemic, he's gone back to bring a typical Republican lackey.

He's not going to lift a finger. Watch.

[StarfishSaver]

38. The law is silent about drop boxes

So if he was so concerned about the legislators not acting, why did he step in and impose his own rule - one that is not set forth in law?

He could just as easily have advised the counties that the law did not restrict where they put their drop boxes and instructed them to do what worked best for them.

But he didn't. He moved in and imposed a restriction the legislature had not seen fit to impose. And, wow - what a coincidence - the choice he made when he could have gone either way was to go the way that will make it HARDER, not easier, for eligible voters to vote. Funny how that keeps happening ...

That's not anything close to acting in good faith.

[LisaL]

39. Sounds like he is getting heat for it and wants to share the blame (not that there is no blame to

share).

[OilemFirchen]

43. Not defending him, but...

I don't believe he has the authority to overrule current statute. That said, DeWine could step in and force the Legislature to act. And, honestly, I have no idea whether or not he will.

[StarfishSaver]

44. DeWine won't do diddly squat

And LaRose isn't "overruling" a statute - he's stepping in and imposing requirements that have not been set by statute.

When the legislature is silent on a process, that means the counties can do what they think best, as long as doesn't otherwise violate the law or abuse their discretion.

[lagomorph777]

36. Need to publicly call this out and defy the illegal order.