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uppityperson

(115,687 posts)
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:42 PM Oct 2020

As an old RN, one of the most difficult things is to accurately predict an individual's course

Statistics break down by categories, but it's difficult to predict for any 1 person. I know this from my years working, and personally.

I had a parent become one of those extreme outliers for their condition, lived longer than most everyone had. I had a cousin at the other end.

I've had to counsel families and friends, balancing statistical predictions with each individual's course.

It's not a game. It's painful, stressful, heartbreaking.

Throwing in the extra bit that we can't trust anyone involved with this administration, it's a waiting game to see what happens. As to what will happen with #impotus, patience. Things can and will change, rapidly at times. A doctor I worked with used to advise "tincture of time". It was, imo, patronizing, but real also.

Hang on to that anger and grieving for all those sickened, dead, grieving, for these assholes lack of action and empathy. Vote them out.


Garry Kasparov
@Kasparov63
We cannot let Trump’s health distract us from his massive debts, his loyalty to dictators, or the damage he and his GOP enablers are doing to American democracy. One month to go.


If you have congress people who need contacting, or it might help, contact them. And wait to see as predictions are hard.

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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As an old RN, one of the most difficult things is to accurately predict an individual's course (Original Post) uppityperson Oct 2020 OP
Right. Salviati Oct 2020 #1
Of course, even if he survives, he could be a long-hauler. tblue37 Oct 2020 #8
As another old RN I totally agree. I do hospice and we never know when someone will die Even mucifer Oct 2020 #2
What usually happens with the aggressive & highly agitated patients? ecstatic Oct 2020 #3
bitch a lot to coworkers. That's about all you can do if they are decisional. The doctors decide mucifer Oct 2020 #4
I'm not a clinician, but I agree with you. yardwork Oct 2020 #5
Yup. Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #6
Kick for the next day. Being discharged to go to a medical unit @the WH while being high on uppityperson Oct 2020 #7
"OLD RN", lol Skittles Oct 2020 #9
Thank you, nurses... electric_blue68 Oct 2020 #10

Salviati

(6,012 posts)
1. Right.
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:49 PM
Oct 2020

I mean 20% of the people here seem to think that it's just a hoax and that he's only pretending to have it, so he can miraculously recover from it. 20% seem to think that he's on death's door, or dead already, and it's just some sort of Weekend at Bernies/Dave coverup going on.

The real story is that even considering the grimmest numbers, just looking at his age and comorbidities that we know of, he's more likely to survive than not. We don't know his exact condition, and even if we did, it still wouldn't tell us a lot. Different people respond different ways to disease, and to this one in extreme particular.

Whatever happens, it doesn't change the fact that his presidency has been a spectacular failure, and this is a crisis largely of his own making. He and the rest of the republican party and their incompetence at taking this seriously are, I am sure, entirely to blame for the immediate crisis that the republican party is undergoing right now, and without a doubt for the larger crisis it exists within.

mucifer

(23,752 posts)
2. As another old RN I totally agree. I do hospice and we never know when someone will die Even
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:51 PM
Oct 2020

when they have end of life breathing patterns on rare occasions they pop out of it and even talk.

Some pediatric cancers are 95% curable. But, what if you are in that 5%. Sometimes no matter how much treatment you get you still die.

I have seen cases where doctors were confused why a rapid growing cancer stopped growing without any treatment and we signed the patient off hospice.

ecstatic

(32,933 posts)
3. What usually happens with the aggressive & highly agitated patients?
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:54 PM
Oct 2020

The ones who bark orders at the doctors, demand experimental drugs, refuse oxygen, and desperately try to manage pressers from their hospital beds?

mucifer

(23,752 posts)
4. bitch a lot to coworkers. That's about all you can do if they are decisional. The doctors decide
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:59 PM
Oct 2020

which medications they get. You spend a lot of time holding in your thoughts and biting your tongue and you get verbally abused.

Luckily most patients and families aren't like that.

yardwork

(62,079 posts)
5. I'm not a clinician, but I agree with you.
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 04:59 PM
Oct 2020

We can only wait and see what happens to Trump and everybody else who is sick. In the meantime, we must get out the vote.

Ms. Toad

(34,435 posts)
6. Yup.
Sun Oct 4, 2020, 05:01 PM
Oct 2020

The motto in our family is that when we hear hoofbeats we should expect - at least - a zebra, and not infrequently a unicorn.

My daughter and I tend to be outliers, which makes our decision making more challenging. It hit home for me with my cancer diagnosis. I had to make a decision on very short notice about whether to do radiation (due the spacing of the rest of the medical and other dominoes in my life). The choice was to risk a relatively high rate of recurrence of the same tumor - or to treat with radiation and create a very small risk of a very deadly cancer. Given my tendency to be an outlier, had I not had to make a very quick decision, I would likely have decided not to have it.

It is the only medical decision I've made that I have not been absolutely comfortable with once I had made the decision - even when the predicted outcome was not a positive one. I crave information to make those decisions, and was unable to obtain it before the decsision was made.

I see that tendency here, as well - when it is not my life, or my family's life directly at risk - but it is indirectly at risk based on the outcome of Trump's illness. So I hate that I don't have the informaiton I crave.

uppityperson

(115,687 posts)
7. Kick for the next day. Being discharged to go to a medical unit @the WH while being high on
Mon Oct 5, 2020, 06:22 PM
Oct 2020

steroids does not mean he is better.

Skittles

(154,088 posts)
9. "OLD RN", lol
Mon Oct 5, 2020, 06:35 PM
Oct 2020

I used to do data processing for car plants, and I'd train new people to know that if the plant nurses called, DO NOT TRY TO BLUFF THEM, they are on to any delaying tactics if their programs are not IMMEDIATELY available. One gal shouted at a trainee I AM OLD RN, YOU CANNOT FOOL ME. LOL.

electric_blue68

(15,437 posts)
10. Thank you, nurses...
Mon Oct 5, 2020, 06:53 PM
Oct 2020

I spent too much time in hospitals from the time I was ?12 when my mom had to go to the hospital (she got severe asthma when I was 5 1/2 in '58, some other stuff later on) off and on. 😧

Then later on my mom got much better with the asthma, but some years later my dad had troubles. ☹️

So glad that they had caring nurses and other medical staff, good doctors.

My sis has a long time ❤️ nurse friend.

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