No Mitt, you were not a Pastor

[cthulu2016]

Last edited Fri Sep 28, 2012, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)

Mitt's humanization campaign today includes him talking about all the good he did as a Pastor.

That is such shit. A Mormon bishop is the equivalent of a Christian Pastor, but a Mormon Bishop is called a Bishop.

This man has some fucking nerve.

There is a candidate in this race who masquerades as a mainstream Christian despite actually belonging to an unpopular religion, and it isn't Obama.

Bishop.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. It still is a pastoral activity, and that term is used within the LDS church

So he was a pastor at one point.

Note: I am not/never have been/ would gut myself on national television before I would be a mormon. However, truth matters.

[WinkyDink]

3. The ACTIVITY isn't the point; the TITLE is. And you can believe that, pre-2012, MR called himself

BISHOP.

He's deliberately downplaying his Mormon standing.

[hrmjustin]

20. Bishops are pastors. In anglican, eastern rite, and Catholic churches Bishops are...

... the chief pastors of the church. A mormon Bishop is a pastor. He did act as the pastor of that congregation he served. I do not like him, but he did do this.

[WinkyDink]

30. That doesn't refute my point at all.

[hrmjustin]

31. No it does not because technically you are correct. However i was willing to give him a...

... pass on it because he was in effect the real pastor of the congregation. That can be backed up by other members. My God I am getting ill defending him. But I thought that he was being honest to the spirit of his history on that one. Now there are people that will testify he was a rat SOB when he was the Bishop. He tried to get a woman to give up her baby because she was not married. She kept it , but was shunned from the church. That should be explored.

[JimDandy]

7. I NEVER heard the term

"Pastor" used by anyone in the LDS church when I was a Mormon. The term used is always "Bishop". Do you have a souce?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Several Mormon bishops I have known over the years, including extended family

They refer to pastoral activities and that they are pastors in their ministry.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. I called a extended family member who is a Mormon bishop about this a few minutes back

We discussed it for a while and from what I gathered they are using the term pastor more frequently in the church these days than they have in the past. As others have pointed out, that may be in an effort to seem more "normal" and comparable to the other xtian sects. The guy I talked to is a stake president, oversees multiple stakes (parishes).

[JimDandy]

39. Thanks for checking on that!

I left the church in 2004, so this is new to me. My ex-husband has been a stake president for the last 9+ years. Will have to discuss this with him and whether it's connected to Romney's candidacy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. I think it is more a move to "normalize" mormonism

They more they use/appropriate standard terms, the more "normal" and more like historical Christianity it looks.

[hrmjustin]

21. a bishops job is chief pastor. He was not wrong in what he said.

[Ikonoklast]

8. A religious official at a Jewish temple also performs pastoral duties, but he isn't a pastor.

He's a Rabbi.

[hrmjustin]

23. the new testament says that a bishop is the chief pastor of his flock.

[Ikonoklast]

25. What does the Book of Mormon say?

[hrmjustin]

28. That I do not know, however the office of Bishop is set up in the NT.

My point was based on the testimony of the people of his congregation he was the pastor of the church. He had a small congregation in MA. He also carried the title of Bishop. Mormons do not have paid clergy as far as I know. But their bishops run the congregations for the most part.

[nycbiscuit]

2. he doesn't want to explain

He really doesn't want to have to explain the difference in definitions to mainstream Protestant or Catholic voters. But what it really shows is shame. But I don't think most evangelicals would accept the notion of calling a volunteer, even one who's risen to some authority, by a title typically reserved for someone who's ordained.

[WinkyDink]

4. IMO, it shows his willingness to lie and obfuscate.

[morningfog]

5. Did he really refer to himself as a Pastor?

This is bizarre. There are no pastors in the LDS church.

[grantcart]

6. A Mormon Bishop is not comparitive to a pastor

from a major denomination who get a BA and a Masters degree in divinity.

A Mormon bishop is to a mainline denominational pastor as a paralegal is to a law professor.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

12. The mormon church does not do the divinity school thing

Their religious leadership for the first few levels isn't even paid. However in the eyes of the state they have the same privileges/licenses/responsibilities of paid clergy with divinity degrees.

Their knowledge of theology, other religions, or belief systems is woefully lacking.

[grantcart]

16. Which was my point

Whenever a LDS 'elder' (usually about 20 years old) asks me if I want to read the Book of Mormon I always say "Yes but I want to read it in the original language, just like I did the Old and New Testament".

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. I don't think the lack of divinity degrees really matters

They are easy enough to get that they really are not relevant. The state does not require them and many denominations do not either. One can certainly be ordained without one.

There is no original language version of the BoM in existence since the golden plates were returned to the cave and are guarded by an angel...if you believe that.

Yeah, I like to cause the "elders" some consternation myself.

[spanone]

9. i'm surprised he wasn't claiming saint

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. If you push them you will find that it is the goal of every mormon male to be come a god

They are in a very real sense polytheist, thanks mostly to the writings of Brigham Young.

That some even know what they consider one of their inner mysteries annoys them terribly

[Tanuki]

10. His role sounds more comparable to that of a deacon or elder

in a mainstream Christian denomination.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Assuming he lead a ward, its more the equivalent of a parish priest.

[SmileyRose]

15. He was a Bishop and apparently sucked at it.

From the sounds of it he phoned it in more often than not.

His assistants that had to see to the needs of the ward while Willard traveled the country putting people in the unemployment line did the pastoring.

[Taverner]

18. Bishops are Pastors in the LDS Church

Granted, the church is run like an MLM

[flamingdem]

22. I think it doesn't help him since it makes him even more Mormony nt

[bluedigger]

24. "promulant - no dictionary results"

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but I can't figure out what you mean.

[jpbollma]

27. I don't think many

Americans would want a Mormon, Catholic, or any other type of Bishop as president. I know we have a lot of religious/government intermingling, however, I don't think people are comfortable with that much. That is why Romney will not say the word Bishop.

[cthulu2016]

34. It's a Simpsons reference (a joke)

[bluedigger]

36. Ahhh. Thanks!

My favorite is still tramopoline.

[liberalmuse]

26. It's BISHOP.

When I was a Mormon, I wasn't even allowed to wear a cross. That position was never in any way, shape or form called being a "Pastor". C'mon Romney. Stop your desperate pandering.

[jwirr]

29. Just curious - how many years did he study specifically for this pastoral post? A Lutheran pastor

studies at least 8 years college to deserve that label.

[jmowreader]

32. All his life

It isn't Romney's fault his religion is one of the richest but is still too cheap to pay for professional preachers.

What he.did as a bishop and as a stake president in the Church of Jesus Christ of Amway Day Saints is close to what a pastor in a protestant church does, so I'm willing to give him a pass.

[jwirr]

33. But once again he did not have to work for it. And for your information there are a lot of

protestant (especially rw) churches who do not educate their pastors either.

[CBGLuthier]

35. I believe you may have meant cromulent

Unless you are using another imaginary word.


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent

[cthulu2016]

37. I know that's what the internet says, but in watching the

episode several times I always heard it as promulant, and the logic of the joke demands that it be promulant.

Since the joke is that the word is like "embiggens" it should be plain what it is trying to mean, despite not being a word. And cromulant doesn't do that.

So I have always relied on my ears and brain on that... but if everyone says different then that's what it is. Language is to communicate. Having personal definitions would be illigerate.

So i'll change it

[CBGLuthier]

38. Weird because I have been quoting that line for 20 years and it always had a K sound to me.

I merely found the internet link to confirm that I heard it the way i did.

I do not in any way agree with your understanding of the joke logic. Why does promulant work when cromulent does not? Besuides everyone knows that comedy requires K sounds.

I too have ears and a brain. They both are very good ones to be honest.