A thought and a question about militia groups

[PJMcK]

The 13 Wolverine Watchmen who were arrested in Michigan seem like a rag-tag bunch of wanna-bes who were playing soldier. My impression is that they weren't very organized or proficient. Could they have actually pulled off their plot? Well, thanks to the FBI and Michigan's LEOs, they were unable to execute their plans and were arrested. Let's hope the courts keep them out of our society.

I know that people have been hurt and killed by domestic terrorists who have also destroyed property. These incidents, abhorrent as they are, don't seem to be coordinated or connected in any large-scale way. The members of these groups seem to be not very bright and motivated more by their warped ideologies than by a grand plan. Their training seems light weight and many of these militiamen don't appear to be specimens of health and strength.

On a national level, are they really that dangerous? Could they really cause the collapse of our society and government? Or are they just dangerous troublemakers?

Frankly, I'm more worried about the professional mercenaries employed by Eric Prince, et al. These are serious soldiers with profound training and expertise. Their weaponry is superior and their abilities, mostly learned in our military, are state-of-the-art. If they were arrayed against our governments, we'd have a precipitous situation.

Thanks for your thoughts and clarifications, in advance.

[TEB]

1. You nailed it playing soldier

[ananda]

2. They were really stupid and incompetent.

What worries me are the more savvy ones...

[Amishman]

12. Yup, what we see getting caught are the stupidest ones

And even the stupid ones like the kid in WI can be dangerously good shots.

[hlthe2b]

3. well, I'd remind you that Tim McVeigh trained with those MI militias

So, I'd surely not discount them as mere dress-up soldier "wannabes"

There are several different militias in MI. Some may attract the basement Cheeto-crunchers with a self-identity fantasy, but others are undoubtedly far more "serious."

[PJMcK]

8. Good points

McVeigh, of course, was one of the worst domestic terrorists in our nation's history-- at least until Trump, that is.

But even his heinous and cowardly act didn't cause the collapse of a government. It was just a senseless act of violence by disaffected low-lifes. Some 20+ years later, did McVeigh's murderous violence change anything?

Do the more "serious" militias have grander plans? Are they really going to begin terrorist attacks against their neighbors and towns?

In the Civil War, the combatants were motivated by economics and territory as much as ideology. Given the diversity of our nation today, how would the combatants define themselves?

None of which is to suggest that the coming months won't be dangerous and fascinating at the same time.

[3Hotdogs]

4. With the Weekend Wankers, it's not about their jerked-off plans of "restoring freedom."

It's about the harm they will do in their failed attempts.

If the plot had not been discovered, it would have lasted, maybe three days after it was launched. Maybe 10 people killed, including the governor. But it would have been contained.


Of more danger, is the fact that many law enforcement officers and supervisors subscribe to ultra right wing beliefs. They are choosing what laws to enforce.



Eric Prince's lot, that's a different and even more dangerous matter.

[PJMcK]

9. Good point about some LEOs

One of my neighbors is a county cop and boy, does he love him some Trump! His comments about current events and other Americans and people make clear where he stands.

I'm sure you're right and that this individual enforce laws based on his personal views.

Prince should be in jail.

Meanwhile, enjoy your weekend!

[malaise]

5. I read that at least two of these men were among the armed

persons at the Michigan legislature during the anti-lock down protests.

[PJMcK]

10. I read the 2 of them were GOP precinct captains

Or that they had roles in their local Republican Party.

As another DUer wrote, they've provided a perfect headline:

GOP Operatives Plot To Kidnap And Kill A Governor And Attack The Michigan Statehouse.

Those of us in the States live among some truly fucked-up people.

[malaise]

11. They're all in

Damn! Lots more to come. Reckless ReTHUGs want a one party government

[genxlib]

6. Oklahoma City would disagree

It only took a couple of bone heads and a couple thousand pounds of fertilizer to kill 168 people.

I agree that complicated schemes would make it a great deal tougher for them. However, those complicated schemes are the only thing giving them the barest veneer of trying to be "fix" something that their warped ideology has determined to be wrong.

But if it doesn't go their way, some fraction of them will turn to outright destruction in the way of bombing and indiscriminate shooting. Those incidents are harder to stop. Especially since many of them already have the tools at their disposal. Even now, I would bet that there are elements of the Michigan Militia who escaped the initial dragnet who are thinking about how they can go out in a blaze of glory.

[beachbumbob]

7. there are MILLIONS in such militias all over America, and been on FBI radar for decades.

they have stocked pile weapons, food and ammo and waiting for there "Turner Diary" moment. Its real and a real danger

[Statistical]

13. A large group of incompetent people with powerful rifles can do a lot of damage.

Look at what a single incompetent school shooter can do. Now multiply that by thirteen. Now multiply that by a few hundred groups acting independently across the country.

Will these idiots overthrow the US govt and stand toe to toe with real soldiers? Of course not but they can kill a lot of people and create a lot of chaos while failing.

[keithbvadu2]

14. "with powerful rifles"

Remember the DC Snipers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D.C._sniper_attacks

[Chainfire]

15. The group couldn't have planned a successful raid on a Sunday School picnic

They got busted because they were running their mouths on the web. Most of the militia types are losers, with a capital L. They want to belong to something, they want something important to happen with their lives, they want to get out of their trailers and live a Rambo life. They join with other losers who want the same things. They are simply the Klan with different uniforms.

The well-trained groups you worry about are mercenaries. They have no political loyalty and will fight for the top dollar. There aren't many of them and the government knows them all.

[malaise]

16. Adding this

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214253602

[spanone]

17. TIMOTHY MCVEIGH

OKLAHOMA - MASS MURDER

[PJMcK]

18. Please see my post #8 above (n/t)

[Miguelito Loveless]

19. I worry about the genuine "lone wolf"

With a conspiracy involving multiple people, there is a good chance someone will talk. With an individual, the odds drop dramatically they will be caught ahead of time if they are actually careful.

Imagine the Las Vegas shooter, but attacking a governor at an event with lots of people.

Think:

Eric Rudolph
Timothy McVeigh
Lee Harvey Oswald
James Earl Ray

Criminals are genuinely pretty stupid. They are caught mostly because they are dumber than the police, who really are not too bright.

The most unbelievable thing about The X-Files to me was not the supernatural/extra-terrestrial element, but the part where the FBI is competent.

This is true for law enforcement at all levels. They catch criminals because such people are generally stupid, or dumb luck.

[Ferrets are Cool]

20. #1 They are not militias. They are terrorists. #2 They are dangerous as hell.

National collapse, no...but they can kill and terrorize many Americans and should be stopped.

Yes, the professional mercenaries have always been MORE dangerous, but we should never minimize the danger of these terrorists cells.

[LizBeth]

22. +1

[MineralMan]

21. If they were capable of pulling that off, they'd be smarter than they are.

For such a small group to be infiltrated by undercover cops, they must be very stupid, indeed. So, I doubt their plans would have worked, even if they hadn't been caught and arrested.

That is not to say that a bunch of people armed with semi-auto rifles could not be very dangerous. They are very dangerous, but not in the sense that they are capable of carrying out any action that would destroy our society.

Law enforcement is aware of them, keeps an eye on them, and is fully capable of stopping them. That, despite some individual law enforcement officers being sympathetic to their warped point of view.

[Midnight Writer]

23. You don't need to be competent or well trained to do a lot of damage with today's weapons.

[Turin_C3PO]

24. Just my opinion but

I don’t believe they have the ability to cause widespread mayhem and government collapse. What they could do is become like the IRA in Ireland and cause scattered terrorist incidents but without truly threatening our government.

[moondust]

25. Heavily armed desperados on opioids.

Some may remember the Yellow Vest protests in France and similar in the U.K. and elsewhere in Europe. In some cases those peaceful, justifiable protests over taxes and inequality were co-opted by "anarchists and vandals" similar to the way BLM protests have sometimes been co-opted by "anarchists and vandals" in the U.S.

The big difference is that, thanks to the NRA and Republicans, the "anarchists and vandals" in the U.S. are often heavily armed and dangerous, call themselves "militias," and are thus emboldened to be even more brazen and fearless and commit even more despicable acts. Like actually planning to kidnap a governor and take over a state government.

[lagomorph777]

26. The more accurate term is right wing terror groups.

[OneGrassRoot]

27. RIGHT-WING DOMESTIC TERRORISTS.

That's what we need to call them and what the media needs to be calling them.