More bad news for preventing coronavirus infections...

[KY_EnviroGuy]

Covid-19 virus 'survives on some surfaces for 28 days'
BBC World News

The virus responsible for Covid-19 can remain infectious on surfaces such as banknotes, phone screens and stainless steel for 28 days, researchers say.

Link: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54500673

Excerpts:

The findings from Australia's national science agency suggest SARS-Cov-2 can survive for far longer on surfaces than previously thought.
+++
Previous laboratory studies have found that SARS-Cov-2 can survive for two to three days on bank notes and glass, and up to six days on plastic and stainless steel.

But the latest research from Australian agency CSIRO found the virus was "extremely robust," surviving for 28 days on smooth surfaces - such as glass found on mobile phone screens and both plastic and paper banknotes - at 20C (68F), which is about room temperature. In comparison, the flu virus can survive in the same circumstances for 17 days.
+++
The study's authors said the ability of SARS-Cov-2 to persist on stainless steal at cooler temperatures could explain outbreaks of Covid-19 at meat processing and cold storage facilities. Thousands of workers have tested positive at meat processing factories and abattoirs around the world.

Just one of many areas where a bit of complacency can result in infection and perhaps death.

We've been wiping items from the grocery down with alcohol but then got a bit sloppy. Time to re-up our original cautious practices!


KY.......

[flamingdem]

1. The biggest problem is droplets and aerosols because the amounts are greater

and it hasn't been exposed to air for long. Really worry when you're in an enclosed space with poor ventilation with anyone lacking a mask for more than 15 minutes. The risk reduces from there.

I really wouldn't worry that much about surfaces. Just wash hands but most people are not washing their groceries at this point. Your mileage may vary..

[Grasswire2]

2. ATM buttons and checkout?

Probably so, eh?

My cash goes into the freezer at home. Don't know if that kills the bugs, or just contaminates the fudgsicles.

[634-5789]

4. I put mine in a safe, and then don't touch it for 30 days.

[intheflow]

5. And gas pumps.

That's where I always "see" virus hanging out.

[MagickMuffin]

8. I would suggest washing our money

Ohhh, now we can launder money just like the big folks.

[LisaL]

9. Freezing doesn't kill the virus, it makes it last longer.

So there is no need to put cash into the freezer if you want to get rid of the virus, it does the opposite.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. It Does Neither

Cold doesn't denature viruses, unless we're talking around absolute zero.. And, only then because they become friable.
Putting your money in the freezer does nothing but give you somecold cash!
Studies have shown the virus is far more viable on hard surfaces than on soft, fibrous surfaces. (Like paper money)
You could safely spray the cash with Lysol or a cut spray like Bactine. Won't ruin the bill and will dry in 10 minutes or so.
If you're in a hot climate, just lay the money in the sunshine. The heat and uV will do a number on the viruses on it. The virus fully denatures at 135 °F in 15 minutes.
Wouldn't work here, because we're getting angled sun & only high 60s here.
But, you don't accomplish much by freezing the money. In fact, surface chemistry suggests it's less safe as the mechanical release of the virus when thing get colder and less elastic, which the paper, moisture, & and mucous droplets all do.

[Iggo]

23. "Don't know if that kills the bugs, or just contaminates the fudgsicles."

Oh my god, thank you!

Best laugh of the morning.

[Grasswire2]

33. sugar free fudgsicles are my go to

40 calories, and very chocolaty.

[58Sunliner]

25. Use a dryer shelf, on high for 25 mins.

Studies supposedly show 157 degrees F for 20 mins kills the virus. A different study quoted 197 F. An infrared thermometer is helpful.

[Hekate]

49. I think freezing only slows down the rate of growth, rather than killing either virus or bacteria

[LAS14]

3. A trust inspiring talking head on CNN pointed out that those...

...tests are done with amounts of virus that would require umpty hundreds of people breathing on the surface for umpty dozen hours. Sorry I can't remember the details, but the educated consensus seems to be that surface transfer is not a problem unless someone sneezed on a doorknob. (Actual example one of them used.)

[William Seger]

24. Yeah, it's really two different questions

How long can a virus survive on a surface, and how much does it take to cause infection from surface contact. At any rate, avoiding contact with your face and frequent use of hand sanitizer when you're out and about is cheap insurance.

[Hugin]

6. I'm still wiping down or using good old Sol on every item coming into the house...

Suffering through the eyerolls of onlookers.

To be honest, I performed this practice on certain items well before COVID. I lived next to a beverage distributor during college and what I observed those packages going through made me a life long sanitizer.

A word of caution on the inside of automobiles. Almost all cars have UV filtering built into their glass. Be sure to occasionally wipe down frequently touched surfaces inside your vehicles! To take advantage of sunlight's sanitizing ability it's important to open the windows and doors and leave them sit for awhile.

It's cheap and what the heck, there's other diseases out there other than the COVID virus.

[LAS14]

7. Also, our virologist neighbor (friend of Fauci, former head of..

... an NIH Aids group) says that it's extremely expensive to do a test that tells you the virus is live. Almost all tests on surfaces like this can only detect a part of the virus that might be there when it is no longer active.

[gristy]

10. Yes. And these tests are extremely sensitive.

Hard to imagine, even if the virus was still intact, that the load received from a touch screen (for example) would be enough to infect.

I wear goggles (along with my mask) when I am out and about and don't take them off until I've sanitized my hands in my car and am on my way home. So I touch things without worrying.

[Hugin]

14. The actual journal article linked to from the BBC page explains how the researchers controlled for

the environment and determined the half-life of the virus's contagiousness on various surfaces.

It's quite thorough.

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-020-01418-7

Anything emerging from the American media is about as reliable as hearsay or gossip.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

17. Thanks for posting that link.

Another good article to bookmark as a piece of a large puzzle we all have to navigate to stay healthy.

You're right about American media. I'm prone to default to European media for more accurate news and have done so since W's days.

KY

[gristy]

18. Thanks for that link.

Scary stuff. It's too bad they didn't replicate at least some of their experiments with light (all of their experiments were with no light).

I'm going to go back to being paranoid about fomite transmission.

[magicarpet]

12. The convergence of the cold weather, Coronavirus, and the onset of yearly,..

... flu season could crank the meter up well into the danger,... be hyper alert zone.

Masks,.. wash your hands,.. disinfect,... sanitize,... everything that comes close to your person,.. keep your hands away from your face/nose/mouth.

Be careful of door handles, ATM key pads, gasoline pump nozzles,.. shopping cart handles,.. items external but brought into your home. Sanitize before you touch your car door handles or anything on your dash or in your car.

Winter is a whole new ballgame for this pandemic,.. we must remain flexible and adjust our habits accordingly.

[Ms. Toad]

13. Alive is different from alive in quantities sufficient to be infectious

via a less-friendly infection route.

All this studied was survival of the virus in an environment engineerred to facilitate survival (no UV light, controlled temperature and humidity, etc.)

So real-world survival is still a question - as is whether the quantity that survives would be sufficient to trigger an infection when consumed (the most likely entrance route for contact infection).

This doesn't change my thinking at all about what I need to be on guard against.

[Nitram]

39. Yes. Concentration, concentration, concentration.

[Leghorn21]

15. I swear, the "latest" news 2 weeks ago said "surfaces schmurfaces, don't worry about that"

(luckily I ignored it, but I’m going to glue my head down cuz IT WON’T STOP SPINNING!!! )

[Nitram]

40. It is not really spinning. Scientists test hypotheses. Sometimes a test shows that a virus lives on

a particular type of surface for a significant period of time. That doesn't mean the concentration of the virus on that surface is sufficient to infect you, or that all such surfaces have been contaminated. We're in the early ays of understanding what the dangers are. The one thing that is certain is that if you inhale a critical concentration of the virus, it might infect you. Then it is a matter of the concentration of the virus you inhaled and the health of your immune system.

[catbyte]

16. I got a promo code on a Breo Box so I ordered it. A deluxe "Phone Soap" was included in it.

It's deep enough to sanitize my keys, too. So I pop my phone in and then my keys and debit/credit cards/driver's license after every time I go out. I carry hand sanitizer in my car & use it after every stop & change out the N-95 insert in my mask. I wash my hands & change clothes when I get home. I guess I can't do much else.

[marlakay]

19. I never stopped wiping down the groceries

Glad I didn't.

[AlexSFCA]

20. is there any evidence at all that virus from the surfaces has infected humans?

[KY_EnviroGuy]

32. Most people who are infected cannot prove without a doubt how it happened..

so everyone relies on anecdotal evidence and probabilities to "guess" how it happened.

The point is, surface contamination is one of the known means by which humans can carry virus particles into the mouth, nose and eyes so it really does not have to be proven.

For example, if someone infected sneezed and coughed on a grocery cart handle during an extended shopping trip and the cart was not subsequently sanitized, if the next shopper using that cart rubbed their itchy eyes or handled a snack they were eating, that person could become infected. However, the source of infection would be impractical if not impossible to trace and prove.

I think these type situations are part of the reason we hear stories of "I think I followed all the rules but still got infected".

This is a virus that loves our careless little moments of complacency.

It's just as meaningful to instead ask the question: "is there any evidence at all that virus from the surfaces has NOT infected humans?"

[Native]

21. First thing I bought - even before a mask - was a Home Soap (super large version of the phone soap)

UV light disinfecting - I can even fit our newspaper in there. It is in constant use. I bought it back when there was still a lot of misinformation and lack of information about the virus. I also bought spirometers to help with lung exercises should I actually get sick. I have fortunately not had to use them.

[pansypoo53219]

22. i am not worried about surfaces. airborne. i have not changed much. more hand washing. wear a mask.

no extra cleaning.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. 1) Takes ideal conditions, 2) a few viruses don't form an infectious load. Do not panic or get upset

[Nitram]

38. Exactly!. Well said Bernardo.

Risk factors are a calculation in daily, life. If we din't consider the odds and understand how to defend ourselves, we would never get into a car.

[greenjar_01]

27. Vast majority of the article is experts calling bullshit on the study

Interesting that you omitted those parts in your summary.

[colorado_ufo]

28. Wipe down those groceries, especially the tops of cans! And never drink from an unwashed soda can.

If you have ever worked in a supermarket (I have), you know what a dirty place it is. Not only do hundreds of people pass through there every day, with varying stages of health AND hygiene, but the groceries are shipped from many places (including foreign countries), loaded and unloaded by untold numbers of people (who may or may not be healthy), and are subject to droppings and saliva from vermin. There is no such thing as a mouse-proof store, and flies come and go constantly, due to the steady stream of customers through the doors. And roaches have been around since prehistoric times - the hardy little buggers! There is more to be concerned about than Covid-19 here, such as flu virus and Hanta virus.

I used to wear a white uniform to work every day, as a cashier, and by the end of the day (despite my best efforts), there was visible and embarrassing dirt on the front. And at 120 pounds, it wasn't due to my tummy rubbing on the counter!

The only upside to this disaster is that stores and restaurants are the cleanest I have ever seen in my going-on-74 years of life. I hope that we are able to retain such high standards when this crisis has passed.

If my mother and grandmothers were still alive, they would be passing on the same advice to you.

[Hugin]

50. +1

After seeing the filth on the wipes after I go over the groceries. I'm never going completely back to the nonchalance I had before.

Yick!

It seems foolish to me now how cavalier I was about those things for the vast majority of my life.

[OneBro]

29. God is angry with us.

God is clearly angry with us 'cause Jim Baker didn't sell enough survivalist food for the evangelicals who get left behind when the rapture comes.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/12/03/456677535/apocalypse-chow-we-tried-televangelist-jim-bakkers-survival-food

[Warpy]

30. The half life is the more important number

That's the time for infections particles on surfaces to become noninfectious.

"Detectable" does not[/] mean present in sufficient quantity to cause infection and illness.

In addition, please not the words "under laboratory conditions. That means precisely controlled temperature and humidity, something that is not going to be the case outside the laboratory.

If you want to read scary headlines and knock yourselves out hosing everything down with sanitizer, be my guest. Just know that it is unlikely to be necessary.

However, do wipe that phone down when you get home. That things' nasty.

[KentuckyWoman]

43. Thank you for this perspective. Your background matters on this.

I wipe down everything at my table before putting it away. From day 1 I figured it's overkill, but it makes me feel safer. And for me, a little less stress is worth the bother.

That said, your reminder that what matters is the virus load large enough that the body can't fight it off is the key.

As always your science background blesses us. Thank you!!!

[BamaRefugee]

31. I wear nitrile gloves every time I leave the house and sanitize them when I get home

These are thick nitrile that can be used over and over, I swap out the pairs every day, and of course do thorough hand washing when the gloves come off... so far so good.
Luckily I live in Southern California so every single window in my place is wide open 24/7 (except during the freaking fires and 100 degree days) so that may help, lots of ventilation.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Firm-Grip-Nitrile-Dip-Gloves-5-Pair-5558/205644545

[BannonsLiver]

34. Tune in next week when another study will contradict this one

Best bet is to not dwell and just wipe shit down constantly.

[Warpy]

35. They won't.

The virus is quite durable on hard surfaces at high humidity and close to body temperature. They've known that part forever.

The problem is maintaining that environment outside a laboratory.

In ordinary conditions, with dry air and fluctuating temperature, the virus has a pretty short half life, especially on more porous surfaces. It's a lot easier to pick up on har surfaces like metal and plastic.

Droplets remain the main mode of transmission. It would still be a good idea to wipe that phone down when you get home.

[Nitram]

37. True. The air is not a supportive environment for the virus. Nor will it survive being swallowed

with food or drink. It needs to get into our sensitive mucous-lined airways.

[Nitram]

36. I'm not convinced surfaces are very significant factor in everyday life. In a factory or workplace

where many surfaces are touched many times a day by the same group of people, there is a danger of a concentration building up. If you are wearing a mask and using an alcohol sterilizer on your hands after touching such surfaces, the risk should be low. It is all about concentration, which is why breathing the air where you are working with other people in a closed space with poor air circulation is probably the most dangerous situation.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

45. Agree with you but I would add....

it's important to periodically remind the public of all the means of transmission along with best safety and preventative practices.

It might well be that transmission by air is 10X, 20X or more in likelihood for being the source but carelessness and complacency with surface concerns in public places like stores, public bathrooms and schools may produce significant additions to the overall number of infections.

Because there's no way to determine precisely what causes each infection, we're left with probability and statistics to give us most likely causes.

Also agree that the environmental systems in enclosed public places are not designed to minimize the spread of germs, but instead to minimize energy consumption. Would be nice if every worker had their own HEPA-filtered bubble to exist in, at least for most of their work day.

KY

[Nitram]

51. Agreed. At Harris Teeter, where I go grocery shopping, they wipe down the handle of every

shopping cart before use, and all the surfaces on the self check-out areas. It also helps that the aisles are never crowded, customers all wear masks, and the staff all wear masks and gloves.

[KentuckyWoman]

41. Thank you for the reminder.

I've been getting lazy too. Thank you.

[Yavin4]

42. If the virus could spread easily from counters or paper money, everyone in NYC would be infected.

From the same article

"Viruses are spread on surfaces from mucus in coughs and sneezes and dirty fingers and this study did not use fresh human mucus as a vehicle to spread the virus," he said.

"Fresh mucus is a hostile environment for viruses as it contains lots of white cells that produce enzymes to destroy viruses and can also contain antibodies and other chemicals to neutralise viruses.

"In my opinion infectious viruses will only persist for hours in mucus on surfaces rather than days."

In a paper published by the Lancet in July, Emanuel Goldman, professor of microbiology at Rutgers University, said "the chance of transmission through inanimate surfaces is very small". He said studies that suggested a significant risk had been designed with "little resemblance to real-life scenarios".

Last week Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine at the University of California, said the coronavirus did not spread via surfaces.

It's impossible to continuously wipe down every surface, package, and paper money.

[myohmy2]

44. is...

...the COVID-19 virus the same as the SARS-Cov-2 virus?

...

[KY_EnviroGuy]

48. COVID-19 is the disease, while SARS-CoV-2 is the actual virus particle. Some quotes....

From the National Institute of Health:

Link: https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/09/22/how-covid-19-took-hold-in-north-america-and-europe/

Quote:

.....coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).....

COVID-19 is caused by the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2

From WHO's website: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

What is a coronavirus?

Coronaviruses are a large family of viruses which may cause illness in animals or humans. In humans, several coronaviruses are known to cause respiratory infections ranging from the common cold to more severe diseases such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS). The most recently discovered coronavirus causes coronavirus disease COVID-19.

And, from the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html#Basics

On February 11, 2020 the World Health Organization announced an official name for the disease that is causing the 2019 novel coronavirus outbreak, first identified in Wuhan China. The new name of this disease is coronavirus disease 2019, abbreviated as COVID-19. In COVID-19, ‘CO’ stands for ‘corona,’ ‘VI’ for ‘virus,’ and ‘D’ for disease. Formerly, this disease was referred to as “2019 novel coronavirus” or “2019-nCoV”.

There are many types of human coronaviruses including some that commonly cause mild upper-respiratory tract illnesses. COVID-19 is a new disease, caused by a novel (or new) coronavirus that has not previously been seen in humans.

KY

[UTUSN]

46. K&R