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Tue Oct 20, 2020, 08:59 AM

 

In defense of Jeffrey Toobin !!!!

How many times a day does a man masturbate? So what! His only crime was he didn't know how to use Zoom correctly. So have your giggles puritanical America. I remember when our first Black woman Surgeon General, M. Joycelyn Elders, was fired because she suggested that young girls learn about masturbation in sex ed .... because she made too much GD sense for the RW fundies ... maybe someone should have asked amy con-me BARRett if she agreed wit scalia on masturbation? So maybe masturbation too will become a crime? Jeffrey ... come back on the TV and hold your head up high (not saying the head that should remain unseen).... you have nothing to be ashamed of. Maybe you could lead a new movement, who knows?


Masturbation Is at the Root of the Culture Wars

"Tell me how you really feel about masturbation, and I can more or less predict how you'll feel about the more frequently debated 'sex war' issues."
The view of masturbation as benign and beneficial is a new one. The Judeo-Christian tradition has long been hostile towards self-pleasure, at least for men. The Talmud compares spilling seed to spilling blood; the Zohar (the central work of Kabbalah) calls it the most evil act a man can commit. The traditional Christian view was no more tolerant; Catholic and Protestant authorities framed masturbation as a deeply sinful (though forgivable) waste of precious semen. Women were left out of these prohibitions for the obvious reason that most male religious authorities didn't consider the possibility that women were capable of or interested in giving themselves orgasms.

The campaign against masturbation became medicalized in the middle of the 19th century. Health reformers like Sylvester Graham (of the cracker) and John Harvey Kellogg (of the cereal) warned against the feminizing and enervating effects of male masturbation, describing it not as a sin but as a habit that could rob boys of their vital life force. At the same time, doctors began to warn of something theologians either hadn't considered or dared to mention: the dangers of female self-pleasure. Beginning in 1858, Dr. Isaac Baker-Brown—the president of the Medical Society of London—began to encourage surgical clitoridectomies to prevent hysteria, epilepsy, mania and even death that would surely follow as a consequence of the stimulation of the clitoris.

. At the same time, Granville, Baker-Brown, and their peers worried that a woman who learned to give herself sexual pleasure might pursue self-sufficiency in other areas. At a time of rising male anxiety about feminist demands for suffrage, female masturbation became an unsettling symbol of women's independence.

More than a century later, masturbation remains a cultural battleground. Many progressives were bewildered by Antonin Scalia's blistering 2003 dissent in Lawrence v Texas, in which he warned that state laws against evils such as "adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, and bestiality" might be invalidated as a result of the decision. Why, liberals wondered, was masturbation included on that list? The answer is simple: masturbation remains not only a grave sin in the eyes of the Catholic Church to which Scalia belongs, but its acceptance as benign and healthy is perhaps the foundational error of modern sexual culture.

The contemporary catechism of the church doesn't mention the waste of seed. Rather, heavily influenced by the late John Paul II's "theology of the body," it insists that our sexuality is intended for one purpose: "the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman." Evangelical Protestants often make the same case; the anti-porn ministry XXX Church teaches that "It is a selfish act that pleases no one but you. God created sex to be between a man and his wife. Not a man and his girlfriend and not a man or woman with himself or herself."


As religious conservatives see it, the great mistake we make when we masturbate is to claim our sexuality as ours alone. All sexual activity must be about "mutual self-giving" between a husband and a wife, the church claims, arguing that masturbation is "an intrinsically and gravely disordered action." Since masturbation is the first sexual act in which most people voluntarily engage, it is in a very real sense the original sexual sin from which all the others—based as they are on this mistaken sense of autonomy—flow. On the right, opposition to the idea of masturbation as an acceptable practice is growing rather than declining. Dr James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, long claimed that the practice was essentially benign. Since his retirement, the organization—a flagship for social conservatism—has changed its tune, now arguing firmly that "self-gratification is inconsistent with the purpose, goal and basic nature of sex.


https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/05/masturbation-is-at-the-root-of-the-culture-wars/276110/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At her first news conference after being appointed director of the Arkansas State Health Department by then-Governor Clinton in 1987, she was asked whether she supported giving out condoms in public schools. "Well," she said, "I'm not going to put them on their lunch trays, but, yes."

In a January 1992 remark that offended Catholic leaders and other foes of abortion, she told them to "get over their love affair with the fetus."

In January 1993, describing the need for sex education, she said, "We've taught our children in driver's education what to do in the front seat, and now we've got to teach them what to do in the back seat."

Last year, Dr. Elders was the subject of a letter to Mr. Clinton from then-Archbishop William H. Keeler of Baltimore, who decried her "contemptuous" depiction of the church. In her remarks, Dr. Elders had attacked the Roman Catholic Church for remaining "silent" about everything from slavery to the Holocaust.

"Look at who's fighting the pro-choice movement," she said. "A celibate, male-dominated church."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1994-12-10-1994344068-story.html
This is the DU member formerly known as Miigwech.

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Arrow 99 replies Author Time Post
Reply In defense of Jeffrey Toobin !!!! (Original post)
Miigwech Oct 2020 OP
samsingh Oct 2020 #1
WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #2
cwydro Oct 2020 #15
WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #3
safeinOhio Oct 2020 #4
Happy Hoosier Oct 2020 #5
Miigwech Oct 2020 #12
WhiskeyGrinder Oct 2020 #18
irisblue Oct 2020 #21
Happy Hoosier Oct 2020 #25
BeyondGeography Oct 2020 #6
no_hypocrisy Oct 2020 #10
33taw Oct 2020 #13
hlthe2b Oct 2020 #7
frazzled Oct 2020 #8
cwydro Oct 2020 #20
dawg day Oct 2020 #27
smb Oct 2020 #61
Wawannabe Oct 2020 #9
SlogginThroughIt Oct 2020 #34
COL Mustard Oct 2020 #70
MrsCoffee Oct 2020 #11
33taw Oct 2020 #16
cwydro Oct 2020 #17
Pacifist Patriot Oct 2020 #22
Talitha Oct 2020 #28
CousinIT Oct 2020 #47
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #60
Hekate Oct 2020 #75
Raine Oct 2020 #82
VarryOn Oct 2020 #89
KWR65 Oct 2020 #14
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #30
The Magistrate Oct 2020 #19
Miigwech Oct 2020 #26
cwydro Oct 2020 #33
RobinA Oct 2020 #48
ResistantAmerican17 Oct 2020 #23
dalton99a Oct 2020 #24
Sympthsical Oct 2020 #29
Miigwech Oct 2020 #32
Sympthsical Oct 2020 #39
cwydro Oct 2020 #43
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #31
cwydro Oct 2020 #35
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #37
cwydro Oct 2020 #38
cwydro Oct 2020 #40
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #49
cwydro Oct 2020 #54
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #55
cwydro Oct 2020 #57
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #59
Miigwech Oct 2020 #41
LineLineLineLineReply .
melman Oct 2020 #42
radius777 Oct 2020 #86
Caliman73 Oct 2020 #99
BusyBeingBest Oct 2020 #36
Drunken Irishman Oct 2020 #44
jcgoldie Oct 2020 #45
PoliticAverse Oct 2020 #46
Celerity Oct 2020 #50
UTUSN Oct 2020 #51
cwydro Oct 2020 #56
UTUSN Oct 2020 #58
cwydro Oct 2020 #63
cwydro Oct 2020 #64
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #65
cwydro Oct 2020 #66
Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #67
cwydro Oct 2020 #68
Spazito Oct 2020 #72
UTUSN Oct 2020 #73
Spazito Oct 2020 #74
UTUSN Oct 2020 #76
Spazito Oct 2020 #77
Polybius Oct 2020 #52
ismnotwasm Oct 2020 #53
Rustyeye77 Oct 2020 #62
LanternWaste Oct 2020 #69
Miigwech Oct 2020 #71
Generic Brad Oct 2020 #78
bullwinkle428 Oct 2020 #79
Miigwech Oct 2020 #80
WyattKansas Oct 2020 #81
Tarc Oct 2020 #83
Ilsa Oct 2020 #84
Miigwech Oct 2020 #85
radius777 Oct 2020 #87
Miigwech Oct 2020 #88
Tarc Oct 2020 #90
radius777 Oct 2020 #91
Tarc Oct 2020 #93
radius777 Oct 2020 #95
Tarc Oct 2020 #97
BlueNProud Oct 2020 #92
JI7 Oct 2020 #94
GulfCoast66 Oct 2020 #96
kcr Oct 2020 #98

Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:01 AM

1. i agree

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:02 AM

2. Yeah the issue is not masturbation, it's masturbating in front of colleagues.

STG people cannot WAIT to defend mediocre men.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:14 AM

15. This.

It’s wrong and indicative of deeper problems.

Not to mention creepy af.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:03 AM

3. "maybe masturbation will be a crime" Get a hold of yourself.

In an appropriate setting, of course.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:04 AM

4. Health expert on long life

This is the DU member formerly known as safeinOhio.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:05 AM

5. HA!

Yeah, almost all guys wank.

The issue isn't wanking. If ya need to rub one out, do in a place of privacy, FFS.

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Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #5)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:12 AM

12. He made a mistake and he admitted it, ruined his career, apologized

 

... doubt he perved his way into it. I am not suggesting that everyone get on Zoom and zoom away. FFS.
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Response to Miigwech (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:16 AM

18. How has his career been ruined?

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:23 AM

21. Wagging your weenie in front of people who are not giving consent to see it is WRONG

Play with yourself all you want, IN PRIVATE.

By your analogy...Mark Halperin, Harvey Weinstein,Louis C.K. and James Toback, among many men with positions of power did nothing wrong.


In private is fine.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:40 AM

25. I've done embarrassing things in conference calls....

.... but I NEVER would spank the monkey while a meeting was going on. WTF!?

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:05 AM

6. Yeah, but during a conference call?

That’s just bad planning.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:09 AM

10. JT was multi-tasking.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #6)


Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:06 AM

7. Time and a Place for everything. This was neither the Time nor the Place. That is all.

No puritanical exhortations involved.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:08 AM

8. It was (video) phone sex, not a private activity

During a pause in the call for breakout discussions, Mr. Toobin switched to a second call that was the video-call equivalent of phone sex, according to the two people familiar with the call, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/business/media/jeffrey-toobin-new-yorker-suspended.html


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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:17 AM

20. That account, as well as others, indicate that he was unaware he'd been seen.

So who told him?
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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:52 AM

27. That would be why he apologized to his wife...

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Response to frazzled (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 01:03 PM

61. He Couldn't Wait And Do That Stuff ON HIS OWN TIME?? nt

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:09 AM

9. Seriously bad form to defend him in any way

Seriously bad form.

You should delete this "OP" or at least the part about Toobin if ya wanna talk masturbation.

Geez!
This is the DU member formerly known as Wawannabe.

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Response to Wawannabe (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:40 AM

34. Why is it bad form?

 

The guy shouldn’t have wanked it while on a call but if he thought he wasn’t on video then had a serious error in judgement.

But telling aomeone to delete their post? That seems like an overreaction. People jack and jill off. Frequently.

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Response to SlogginThroughIt (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 04:40 PM

70. He's 60 Years Old. He Probably Can't Do It Very Often Anymore.....

I'm only speaking on behalf of a friend.......


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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:09 AM

11. Yeah no. And if I'm one of the people on the call, you better believe

I'm thinking of filing a harassment suit. I'd be creeped the fuck out just at the possibility that he was getting off watching or listening to anyone on the call.

You don't jack off on a work call. Period. End of.

And I ain't buying any fucking omg a man needs to jack off all the time excuses for this shit. Give me a fucking break. He could have waited an hour.


JUST NO.



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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:15 AM

16. Agree.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:15 AM

17. You said it perfectly.

Thank you.
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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:24 AM

22. Yep

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:54 AM

28. THIS

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:22 AM

47. Ditto that. No freaking way it should be tolerated. n/t

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:22 PM

60. Exactly. n/t

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:04 PM

75. Amen, sister. I can think of a lot of legal terms covering what he did *at work* & none of them...

...make him look good and all of them put *their employer* at legal risk.

Just. No.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:17 PM

82. EXACTLY! nt

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:42 PM

89. Absolutely. I find it incredible...

That anyone would try to make room for it being even remotely acceptable.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:13 AM

14. Don't do it Jeffery! You'll go blind!

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Response to KWR65 (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:07 AM

30. Don't forget those hairy palms.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:17 AM

19. The History Of The Matter Is An Interesting One

And a good deal of this has actually survived into the present day, though in veiled forms....

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:41 AM

26. Yes, thank you! Now Toobin really made a big mistake

 

using technology ... he didn't turn off his Zoom and he was having phone sex with his wife. BAD< BAD< BAD ... people saw it. Yes so wrong!!!! Get out the tar and feathers. I feel sorry for him. Is it only me? I feel sorry for the people in the meeting as well. Sex happens, masturbation happens .... I for one am sick and tired of American attitude towards it! Leave the guy alone is all, I support him because he did something that he believed was PRIVATE at the time .... his wife was involved too. So embarrassing and the RW fundies are going to town over this. I ain't.
This is the DU member formerly known as Miigwech.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:39 AM

33. Where did you get the info he was doing it with his wife?

I’ve not seen that anywhere.

Besides the fact, it’s creepy and nasty to do that while on a conference call.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:25 AM

48. No, It's Not Just You

He made a dumb mistake. I'm sure he's not the first person to multitask in this way during some online snooze fest. Wouldn't be my cup of tea, but I've always found he has interesting things to say and I still will.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:24 AM

23. I don't care if the "video porn" was his wife calling from her hotel bc she was on a business trip

and they had a mutual “rub one out” session. FFS, take care of business before you “take care of business.” Reminds me of the old saying, “there are two kinds of people, those who “flog the bishop” and those who lie about it.” IOW, Not our business except he made it our business. It’s a shame because I usually enjoyed his even handed approach to legal issues. Now he’s the Pee Wee Herman of legal analysis. See, I hate myself for saying that!!!
This is the DU member formerly known as ResistantAmerican17.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)


Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 09:58 AM

29. Yeah, no.

I work remotely. The rule is always at least a pair of shorts on. As for super porn happy times, that does not need to be happening during work hours. If you were at a physical job and sneaking off to the bathroom for a quick pull during work hours, I promise you HR would not be thrilled if it became known.

Always assume your camera is on.

Always.

I think part of the issue may be he was on a call with someone not his wife. But that part of the story is fuzzy.

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Response to Sympthsical (Reply #29)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:36 AM

32. The truth is .....

 

sweep it under the rug again. Like this kind of human sexual behavior never ever happens, right? Not in any conference call that anyone has ever been on. Now we have Zoom and we can also see what's going on. Come on folks!!!! Just saying .... I don't defend doing anything sexual that is not consensual between adults EVER, but I believe in sexual freedom of expression as long as it is not intentionally harmful to anyone. Toobin did not intentionally plan to harm anyone .... he made a big fucking mistake. I defend his sexual freedom and I am sick of the hypocrites who point fingers. They laugh and demand a pound of flesh while doing the exact same thing.
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Response to Miigwech (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:08 AM

39. And when you inadvertently expose your co-workers, you get fired.

I certainly would be. You would be, too.

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Response to Miigwech (Reply #32)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:13 AM

43. So you don't think sexual harassment is harmful?

Allrighty then. Smh.
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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:23 AM

31. Right wingers are hypocritical fools.

They masturbate. They go to hookers. They wear diapers for their infantilism fetish. They force their mistresses to get abortions while railing against abortion. They are just plain bad people.

We are definitely very uptight about sex and masturbation as a nation, while consuming petabytes of porn. I mean Jackie Collins was a millionaire, and the person who wrote 50 Shades has an actual career around titillating people.

What Toobin did was foolish. The problem wasn't the masturbation. The problem was the public exposure. Had he been on a call with say, his brother or parents, and this occurred, it would be an embarrassing but private situation.

Should his career be ruined or over? No. Not a chance. The problem is despite his great career, a lot of people are going to see him as the guy who was jerking off on a Zoom meeting. I mean, a good indicator is that Brian Williams is on air and people seem to have forgiven him for his lying about being shot at in a helicopter. Toobin will likely have to lay low for awhile, but might be able to move past this.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #31)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 10:58 AM

35. He has a troubling history with his "urges."

That perspective makes a difference too.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #35)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:06 AM

37. Citation please.

Perhaps he does. I don't care one way or the other with Toobin, but if there is evidence of a pattern of behavior, then please bring it forth rather than insinuating. It would certainly make a difference if it were the case that he has done this and other problematic things.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:07 AM

38. Someone cited it it this thread or another.

Let me see if I can find it.
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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:09 AM

40. Here you go.

A quick google will give you all this and more.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=14322414
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Response to cwydro (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:28 AM

49. Yep. Seems to be a pattern.

Everyone makes "stupid mistakes" as Toobin stated. Sure, but when you have a pattern of messed up behavior then your "stupid mistakes" take on a different perspective.

Thanks for citing the information. Like I said, I don't really care about Toobin or his career. Obviously not enough to look into any history. Sounds like he needs to focus on why he feels entitled to treat women poorly and act like an ass, away from the cameras or his position of power within the media.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #49)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:02 PM

54. Yes, exactly.

I didn’t know about any of this either.

First saw it last night on some website, then saw it cited here.

Self destruction makes no sense. I feel for his family. Him, not so much
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Response to cwydro (Reply #54)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:05 PM

55. I wouldn't call it self destruction.

I don't think the reality of what could happen if caught actually crosses the mind of people who do this. They get lost in their sense of power. Again, not sure of the details of this particular incident, but given the pattern, he may well have left Zoom on "on accident" on purpose.

Yes, it is sad when a person's selfish actions drag the whole family into the drama.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:08 PM

57. I can't imagine having a well know parent who would do something like this.

Yeah, the “on purpose” thing seems possible.

I keep reading that he was unaware he’d been seen. I can’t help wondering who told him, lol?!
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Response to cwydro (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:19 PM

59. Seriously...

Umm dude? Hey Jeff! Umm... we're still here!

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:11 AM

41. Would make a difference to me too.

 

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #37)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:12 AM

42. .

 

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #31)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:02 PM

86. Unfortunately there is alot of sexual moralism on the left as well.

I'm a gen-x PoC and growing up during the 90s the Dems were viewed as the 'cool' party on sex. We all saw Bill as an anti-hero of sorts for his sex scandals. But since then some elements of the left - especially some Boomers and some feminists - have shown a sexual conservatism that is in many ways no different from that of the RW and that does drive away younger people and men, including men of color. I saw a good segment on this last week that focused on why MoC are being lost to Dems, and they did hint at this, at being viewed as 'toxic' and blamed for everything.

And weirdly, it's always MoC or liberal men who are targeted for 'cancelation' based on sex scandals. Bill was hunted like an animal. Look what happened to Franken. Toobin was a fierce critic of Trump and those in the establishment (such as Mueller) who were too soft on him. Now he makes a mistake in his own home and it's the biggest 'shame' in the world - yawn. Yet guys like Trump, Hannity, Tucker - and RW women like Guilfolye (who committed actual sexual harrassment) nothing happens to and they keep living life just fine.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #86)

Thu Oct 22, 2020, 10:47 AM

99. Dems were never the "cool" party on sex.

No one in America is "cool" about sex. Sex is sold, like many other things, as a commodity, but the reverse of that is the very puritanical ideas about sex, especially the sexuality of women, which White men would like to control in White women, but exploit in women of color.

I have to disagree regarding the "sexual conservatism" of the "left" being no different from that of the right. They are VERY different. There is a sexual hypocrisy on the right that is much more pronounced than in liberals. Republicans seek to control the sexual expression of people they deem to be beneath them, while engaging in the same behavior. People like Dennis Hastert, Foley, Larry Craig, and countless televangelists who rail against homosexuality, adultery, pornography, etc... yet they are caught in those situations, or worse in the case of Hastert. Liberals definitely have concerns about things like adultery because it can destroy relationships. I would say that issues like non-monogamy and open relationships give a lot of people pause, however, liberals are more likely to take a "personal choice" stance while reserving their own concerns.

I think that there is a huge interplay between racial issues and sexual issues, to be sure, there has been a critique of men of color for the promotion of sexualizing women in hip-hop culture. There has also been more general backlash against men regarding that issue.

I would push back on the idea that "liberal men and men of color" are specifically targeted. I would argue that liberals in general are more likely to accept the pressure to retreat from positions of power when confronted with behavior that is not acceptable. Right wing people just seem to be shameless and unwilling to give up power because they are called out on their lack of character. We as liberals/progressives/Democrats hold our own people accountable. Bill Clinton had a problem with women and sex. He was "hunted like an animal" by the right. While the left wanted to hold him accountable for philandering and wanted to make sure he was not assaulting women, the right simply wanted to damage him for being unfaithful to his wife, while those very people were also cheating on spouses. People on the "left" lack the ability to have an impact on politicians and the bigger media personalities on the right. We already don't support them. We don't watch Fox or listen to right wing radio so when we threaten sponsors, it is less powerful than if we are in the demographic that actually watches Carlson, or Hannity.

I would be careful of conflating response from the left with the tactics of the right. There is definitely a sentiment on the left regarding sexuality, however, it is nuanced and is typically about people with power, NOT exploiting those with less power. If there is consent and no coercion, then the left is typically less interested in what people do sexually. The right adopts an "It's okay for me, but not for you" attitude.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:04 AM

36. Sometimes you just learn too much about somebody, even if they didn't do anything

legally or morally wrong, and it's basically over. I learned that this guy can't fucking control himself in a work situation, or maybe even gets turned on because of it. Can't unlearn that.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:15 AM

44. Next time you're at work, rub one out in a conference room & see how long you keep your job.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:15 AM

45. Nobody cares if he beats off

The problem is doing it during a professional meeting. Obviously he didn't intend for his colleagues to see him, but doing it was inappropriate in that setting even if he was in his own home alone.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:16 AM

46. Was that wrong?!...

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:32 AM

50. Sorry, but tossing off on a Zoom call with co-workers is fucked up, and career-ending in terms

of mainstream media.

I would go bonkers if I was subjected to that shit.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:42 AM

51. Saved me here from my own O.P. stepping into it. The loss of *trust* in an ally.

I don't follow him much, but over the years he's appeared to be a voice of sanity, balance, knowlege, competence and generally on my Dem/Lib side. Particularly I have enjoyed seeing him slap down DERSHOWITZ who never failed to remind everybody that TOOBIN was his student and owed him deference.

Years ago it was shocking that he had sperm donated to a colleague's daughter and then (denied?) paternity. But that had faded from my memory and the few times I saw him again was as a trusted authority again, until now *this* episode when the previous episode was dredged up again.

For me, the issue is losing a voice on my side, losing the credibility and trust, and giving the wingnuts ammunition against us.

It's a lesser example of Bill CLINTON - when we spent all of our energies defending him and therefore putting our Dem agenda goals aside for the interim. Back then I was a supervisor and had a 20+ years younger employee coming on to me and I moved my chair away, such that back then I could not understand why CLINTON couldn't do that with the intern.

Some will call this prudish, but I just don't see the power of gratification spreading outside particular times and places.

As for whether TOOBIN should keep the job, well this goes beyond what FRANKEN was accused of, particularly with the prior offense.

It's the agenda, stoopid. And it rankles that the DERSH gets a gloat.



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Response to UTUSN (Reply #51)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:06 PM

56. "Sperm donated?"

Unless you’re talking about a different incident, that’s not what happened.
This is the DU member formerly known as cwydro.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #56)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 12:11 PM

58. I've asked you 4 times privately not to interact with my posts. This one is public.

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Response to UTUSN (Reply #58)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 01:31 PM

63. This is a discussion forum dude. I can post where I like.

Yeah, I blocked your lovely PMs. I should have alerted on them.

Put me on ignore, hon.

And you’re wrong about Toobin; I’m not the only one pointing that out to you.
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Response to UTUSN (Reply #58)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 01:33 PM

64. And btw, you must be thinking of another poster.

I only have the one love note from you.

I’ve missed you, boo.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #64)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 03:39 PM

65. There must be at least 3 he's pulled this stunt on -

since they just sent a love note to me, as well. If you only got one - wonder who they sent the 4 notes to.

I gave them the same advice - don't want to see my responses, put me on Ignore. Got back a wild accusation that my note pointing out the factual error was an assault.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #65)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 04:12 PM

66. Yeah, I saved it, thinking of putting it out there.

It seems to always be a reaction to someone pointing out a contextless OP.

Then the attack follows. I was so surprised when I got my love note because I had actually said I was always out of the loop. No attack on the OP at all.

My, my, my.
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Response to cwydro (Reply #66)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 04:17 PM

67. That provides some context.

My comment today was a purely factual correction. But the note received referenced tone, attitude, and accused me of assaulting them in prior responses to their posts.

Since I do prompt people for context when I have no clue what they are talking about I could very easily have asked them for context in the past. I honestly don't have any specific recollections of prior interactions, since I don't name-check before I respond to a post. I can usually remember a conversation thread, but only rarely the specific participants.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #67)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 04:22 PM

68. Yes, I think there's some very thin skin involved here.

I'm the same way - that I rarely remember participants in a thread, but I've seen this attack on responses basically just saying "huh?" several times, and after I received my sweet note, I started to notice.
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Response to UTUSN (Reply #51)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 01:25 PM

72. "Sperm donated"???

Geez, I've seen some excuses for assholes who impregnate women and then try to deny paternity but this one takes the cake. It wasn't IVF you know.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #72)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 03:41 PM

73. Since you might actually be sincere in your concern, I'll answer until the concern is revealed to be

other than sincere concern.

**** What part of "was shocking (to me) " and "to a colleague's daughter and then (denied?) paternity" sounds like I'm making "excuses for assholes"? If I were "making excuses" I wouldn't have been shocked, now would I. Which makes me wonder why you are choosing to ignore whole paragraphs to seize on two words to twist around.

Still giving you the benefit of my doubt that you are being sincere, I'll answer (although if it turns out you are participating in flaming we're done here) , I’ll answer the (only) point in your post: I didn’t want to get into the labyrinth of TOOBIN’s despicable behavior that would be a separate topic of morality/immorality/infidelity/etc.etc., so chose to use “sperm donated” as a physical/biological act and I fully understand how “donated” can leave room for the distortion because “donating” has an overtone of beneficence. I thought about that but decided to trust my fellow DUers to be comprehending of the context of the whole post and sophisticated in interpretation, and I retain that trust for the vast majority of my fellow DUers (did that little dig, or should I say “shade”, come across? ) .

As for the separate topic of flaming goes, which I’m taking the liberty of raising here, my observation of how it works is: That no answer to flame accusations will be accepted; the flame accusations will be repeated endlessly; other flamers will join in with mob glee; and flaming is not “discussion,” just bullying.

I answer what I take to be sincere questions and adhere to a policy that DU Admin set several years ago, that we DU members should manage our own DU relationships among ourselves as adults, which to me means telling others when there is lack of compatibility and that further interaction is futile. I also know from experience that notifying somebody of this more often than not elicits even more hostility, personal attacks, and calling-out on their part. I consider the verbal bullying to be one form of “assault,” which has the main element of being NON-CONSENSUAL interaction. And the response that this is a public space where somebody’s “freedom” of speech or of who to address is invalid, because “your rights end at the tip of my nose and vice versa,” and imposing yourself (speaking general-YOU here) on somebody who doesn’t want interaction with you is ASSAULT – along with other kinds like verbal, emotional, physical.

Hookay, you (personal-YOU) either do me the respect of accepting my answer about your point of “sperm donating” or you don’t. I won’t be replying if you don’t because flaming.







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Response to UTUSN (Reply #73)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 03:47 PM

74. Here is my response to yours...

To me, your 'explanation' doesn't hold water wrt "sperm donating" and, as to the rest of the nonsense, well, it speaks for itself.

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Response to Spazito (Reply #74)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:52 PM

76. & you have revealed.

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Response to UTUSN (Reply #76)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 04:56 PM

77. I thought you weren't going to respond to me...

please feel free to put me on ignore, it might help you fulfill your promises.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:50 AM

52. If he wants to act like a teenager, then learn technology like one

At his age, he could have waited until the meeting was over. He doesn't have teenager hormones where he just couldn't wait. His excuse was that he thought his schlong was out of focus? Come on, know your camera dude.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 11:50 AM

53. All this would be lovely

Is there wasn’t a pattern of very bad behavior of entitled assholes sending Pictures of unsolicited and sexualized body parts to non consenting individuals.

Its bullshit, it’s predatory, and in some cases is sexually harassment if not assault.

It the guy was working his inches and made a honest mistake that’s one thing, but given the current on-line atmosphere it was criminally stupid. Someone needs to explain why this particular person needs the benefit of the doubt

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 01:24 PM

62. SPANK THAT MONKEY , JEFF !!

LOL

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Tue Oct 20, 2020, 04:26 PM

69. Let's add the relevant qualifier to your question you omitted by design or not..

"How many times a day does a man masturbate in front of his coworkers...?"

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #69)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 01:16 PM

71. Not by design never (except Toobin) but by design probably 100%

 

This is the DU member formerly known as Miigwech.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 05:00 PM

78. He was at work- on the job

Unacceptable.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 05:00 PM

79. Would you like to add a side order of "A Defense of Rudy" to that?

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Response to bullwinkle428 (Reply #79)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 06:01 PM

80. No, rudy was not a private citizen, he was acting

 

as the Attorney for the President of the US.and as a traitor on the behalf of the Russians. Come on, Very different ... if a Rock Star was caught in some kind of sex scandal, also different. No doubt we don't want a teacher caught in this kind of thing either, they should be fired immediately. But sex is sex ... private unless we as tax paying citizens pay their salaries or they are representatives of such elected persons. Toobin is a writer, journalist, author, legal authority, private citizen as far as I can tell .... he is basically self employed, none of our GD business. I don't like being placed in the position defending salacious, or dumb behavior of any kind .... just don't like piling on someone for making a stupid mistake .... I see this as exposing more than just a masturbating man .... this kind of thing is happening all the GD time and if folks want to claim naught, well then, so be it. Let his bosses, co-workers, lawyers sort it out. Puritanical American sexual hang ups ... doubt the Europeans would blink on eye over this, maybe titter a little. That's it. He may be a louse but I still fell sorry for him. Most of the time I despise male sexual shit but not this time, sorry.
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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 06:44 PM

81. I never understood the need for men to send dick pics to women to shock them.

Simple rule to follow:
If anything is connected to the internet in any way, then do NOT ever take it for granted and allow yourself to be exposed by it. It is just stupid for anyone to ever think that 'being exposed' in their shining glory cannot ever happen.

2nd rule: If you are going to do that, then make sure nobody can ever walk in on you or that you would ever be caught, because you can't ever undo the damage.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:20 PM

83. Yep. The patriarchy will circle the wagons to defend their own, every time.

Shameful that this mindset still permeates this party.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:26 PM

84. Dr. Jocelyn Elders was fantastic! She was so funny,

Smart, and quick to point out fallacious arguments. She probably would have made a great lawyer, too.

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Response to Ilsa (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 07:40 PM

85. She was ahead of her times, even by today's standards

 

... look who we are getting on the SC ... amy con-me BARRett............ a total throw back to the dark ages
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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:20 PM

87. Agree. Most men and some women masturbate.

It's the middle of a pandemic and people are (a) stressed out (b) fumbling with technology and (c) working at home. Mix all of those together and you get unfortunate events like what happened. Those who think Toobin is the only one who takes a break to watch some pr0n and spank the monkey - are seriously naive or just hypocrites. Wonder why his employer had to reveal this to the public, it's not like he intended to hurt anyone.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #87)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 08:40 PM

88. The best explanation that perhaps we can all relate to.

 

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Response to radius777 (Reply #87)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 09:52 PM

90. "I knew there'd be awful takes like this from some dudes"





A-fucking-men, Charlotte.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #90)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:06 PM

91. Alot of that take is just driving youth and men (and men of color)

away from the Dem party, and does not help us so close to an election.

I see it all the time on social media, where (mainly white) feminists and Boomers get into it with younger people and younger men in particular - only alienates them from the party.

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Response to radius777 (Reply #91)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:36 PM

93. We'll make this real simple for you

The unease isn't over masturbation.

It's that white men get every benefit of doubt when they engage in creeper/sex predation behaviors that should otherwise be firing offenses.

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Response to Tarc (Reply #93)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:48 PM

95. He did nothing wrong though, it wasn't intentional. /nt

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Response to radius777 (Reply #95)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 11:05 PM

97. Dicks do not slip into public view as a routine occurrence

This is a tale as old as time.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:09 PM

92. He was just tucking his shirt in anyway.

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:40 PM

94. I didn't read any of what was posted but the problem is he was working at the time

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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 10:57 PM

96. Good grief. This is just ridiculous.

Yeah, everyone masturbates. That’s not what is causing him problems. His not being fired for masturbating. Hardly.

He decided to rub one out while on a work call and got caught. Red handed, so to speak.

Defending this is just silliness and does not pass the common sense test. Getting caught pounding one out on a work call is going to get you fired. Rightly so.


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Response to Miigwech (Original post)

Wed Oct 21, 2020, 11:29 PM

98. This is up there with the stupidest things I've seen on DU

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