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Quemado

(1,262 posts)
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:22 PM Oct 2020

Catholic deacon told congregation not to vote for Biden.

I was not present when this happened, but I heard it from two sources, one of which was in the congregation and heard the deacon. I will refer to this person as the "Source".

"Source" was at mass on a Saturday about 2 weeks ago. According to the "Source", the deacon expressed his personal beliefs on this election. The deacon told the congregation not to vote for Biden. The deacon said that Biden was going to turn this country communist. The "Source walked out and others did also.

The next day (Sunday) at 9 am mass, the parish priest told the congregation that he spoke to the deacon twice and apologized for what the deacon said. It was not nice or good. Despite what the parish priest said, the parish priest put democrats down also.

The "Source" has voted already, and voted for Biden. The "Source is tired of Trump's lies, foul language, and his bully ways.

I'm already looking for a new church.

50 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Catholic deacon told congregation not to vote for Biden. (Original Post) Quemado Oct 2020 OP
Disgusting lack of judgement. n/t Eyeball_Kid Oct 2020 #1
Deacons are nobodies. My Pet Orangutan Oct 2020 #2
Report it to the IRS. Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #3
This has not ever been enforced. Patterson Oct 2020 #9
Perhaps the time has come to enforce it. nt crickets Oct 2020 #19
While enforcement is less frequent than it should be, Ms. Toad Oct 2020 #28
Can you name a church that ever lost their tax exempt status FBaggins Oct 2020 #23
I agree with you OLDMDDEM Oct 2020 #31
That deacon... Newest Reality Oct 2020 #4
Couldn't this be considered political speech? dware Oct 2020 #5
That has never happened. Patterson Oct 2020 #10
Maybe it's time to start enforcing it. dware Oct 2020 #12
Has happened one time FBaggins Oct 2020 #24
Considered? It's explicitly political... JHB Oct 2020 #16
Yeah, I don't expect anything to happen either, dware Oct 2020 #18
Tax that church. muntrv Oct 2020 #6
You can't do that and remain a tax-free church, right? Frustratedlady Oct 2020 #7
Widely ignored rule. maxsolomon Oct 2020 #33
Why I quit going to Mass. Ohiogal Oct 2020 #8
ditto. organized religion is way overrated. onetexan Oct 2020 #17
Ask the priest if he condones "p*ssy grabbing". nt Binkie The Clown Oct 2020 #11
Really. These people are so blind, to these other disgusting traits of trump (the pu&&y grabbing, SWBTATTReg Oct 2020 #14
Or adultery. Trump's on his third wife. nt. Mariana Oct 2020 #30
bye-bye tax exemption! lagomorph777 Oct 2020 #13
Churches have been doing this for years. Mariana Oct 2020 #27
See Post #23. nt dware Oct 2020 #29
Try a parish of color shrike3 Oct 2020 #15
I found a Church True Blue American Oct 2020 #35
Wonderful. shrike3 Oct 2020 #43
I know how they are. True Blue American Oct 2020 #47
I left the church where I loved singing in the choir PurgedVoter Oct 2020 #20
Illegal NameAlreadyTaken Oct 2020 #21
No enforcement. nt. Mariana Oct 2020 #26
That's so wrong Lotusflower70 Oct 2020 #22
This is going on in thousands of Christian churches. Mariana Oct 2020 #25
Oh, the Catholic Church was worse here. True Blue American Oct 2020 #34
The majority of Catholic voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016. Mariana Oct 2020 #38
Fifty-two percent of all Catholics supported Trump. But his mainstay of support shrike3 Oct 2020 #49
We had that same problem with the local Catholic Churches when True Blue American Oct 2020 #32
Weird. I never knew deacons could give sermons if any kind. Just read scripture MaryMagdaline Oct 2020 #36
Deacons can and do give sermons in the Catholic church. Quemado Oct 2020 #41
Thanks. It's been years. I am not up to speed MaryMagdaline Oct 2020 #45
This sh*t's been going on for years. Sogo Oct 2020 #37
Make sure you let them know why you left. OnDoutside Oct 2020 #39
Thanks for sharing Beringia Oct 2020 #40
Right after it was said I would stand up and walk out! healthnut7 Oct 2020 #42
Perhaps instead of trying to get the IRS to enforce it's rules... WyattKansas Oct 2020 #44
Complain to your bishop. Trumpocalypse Oct 2020 #46
A lot of Catholics here changed Churches they were so angry. True Blue American Oct 2020 #48
TAX THE CHURCHES INTO OBLIVION SoonerPride Oct 2020 #50

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
3. Report it to the IRS.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:25 PM
Oct 2020

Churches are not allowed to take positions on candidates, without putting their tax exempt status in jeopardy.

Ms. Toad

(34,069 posts)
28. While enforcement is less frequent than it should be,
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:49 PM
Oct 2020

which do you think is more likely to make a difference - filing a formal complaint or whining on DU?

The law can't be enforced wtihout someone filing a complaint, since the IRS doesn't send people around to sit in church pews on Saturday/Sunday to make sure they aren't endorsing candidates. The violations have to be reported for enforcement to occur.

File the complaint. If nothing happens, then get back to me. But don't complain about rumored non-enforcement without taking the steps necessary to obtain enforcement.

Here's the form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f13909.pdf

FBaggins

(26,732 posts)
23. Can you name a church that ever lost their tax exempt status
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:46 PM
Oct 2020

Due to a pastor endorsing a candidate?

The closest that I can think of was a DC circuit court opinion (Branch Ministries v. Rossotti) that involved a church spending money to purchase a newspaper ad.

It's very likely (certainly with the upcoming SCOTUS makeup) that the Johnson Amendment would be considered unconstitutional if applied to a pastor speaking from the pulpit.

The IRS appears to know this. There have been dozens of pastors who have been self-reporting themselves to the IRS (saying essentially "come and get us&quot because they want the run the matter through the courts and get the amendment thrown out. The IRS hasn't taken them up on the challenge... so I doubt they would in this case either.

OLDMDDEM

(1,572 posts)
31. I agree with you
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:53 PM
Oct 2020

Years back my wife and I walked out of our church, never to return, when the minister stated they had sample ballots to help people in voting. The sample ballot was checked to vote for all republicans.

Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
4. That deacon...
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:26 PM
Oct 2020

Is probably a holdover from The Spanish Inquisition. Call him Deacon Red.

Nobody expects that!

Let me mix some of my religion in your politics. I thought that was prohibited, but now, who cares, anything goes.

Just sayin'...

dware

(12,369 posts)
5. Couldn't this be considered political speech?
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:26 PM
Oct 2020

And couldn't this be grounds for the IRS to revoke their tax exemption?

dware

(12,369 posts)
12. Maybe it's time to start enforcing it.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:31 PM
Oct 2020

Or maybe not, I can see where it could be used to suppress certain churches that don't adhere to the political position of the R party.

FBaggins

(26,732 posts)
24. Has happened one time
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:48 PM
Oct 2020

See #23 above.

But that wasn't political speech in the pulpit... it was running an ad in the paper. Arguably very different.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
16. Considered? It's explicitly political...
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:37 PM
Oct 2020

...but the IRS isn't going to take action against the Catholic church, nor even one parish. Especially not when the Howler Monkey still has his stinking paws on the controls of the executive branch.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)
7. You can't do that and remain a tax-free church, right?
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:27 PM
Oct 2020

Time to look into that ruling. Many of our ancestors came to America to escape religious persecution, right? Three of my relatives did.

They've been flirting with this for years. Time to either come to an understanding or remove the tax-free stipulations.

maxsolomon

(33,327 posts)
33. Widely ignored rule.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:57 PM
Oct 2020

The IRS doesn't hold any Religious Institution to it, let alone the RCC, let alone a Deacon, who aren't even priests.

The IRS allowed SCIENTOLOGY to become a tax-exempt religion.

SWBTATTReg

(22,114 posts)
14. Really. These people are so blind, to these other disgusting traits of trump (the pu&&y grabbing,
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:35 PM
Oct 2020

the tax fraud, the lying, etc. that I wonder on what planet did you grow up on? It's not the same one I grew up on.

shrike3

(3,583 posts)
15. Try a parish of color
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:36 PM
Oct 2020

I now belong to one that is largely African American, and it is one of the better decisions I've made.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
35. I found a Church
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:01 PM
Oct 2020

That teaches,” Following in the Footsteps of Jesus”. the 2 Pastors set the Church in a new direction.
Love They Neighbor and inclusion.

shrike3

(3,583 posts)
43. Wonderful.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:15 PM
Oct 2020

I'm happy for you. I left my longtime parish after Trump got in, church-hopped for a while, then found just what I was looking for in a black parish. May you have the same experience.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
47. I know how they are.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 04:10 PM
Oct 2020

This Church is a Brethren, almost across the street from me. An old Church of the Bretren.. I would not have gone to the old Church. They built a new Church across the street and hired 2 Ministers.

Almost across the street from me. You find the love and inclusion in most of your predominantly black Churches. Trust me I know!

PurgedVoter

(2,217 posts)
20. I left the church where I loved singing in the choir
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:45 PM
Oct 2020

The individual who would be giving me communion and I differed over the issue of waterboarding and I could no longer feel comfortable accepting communion.


Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
22. That's so wrong
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:46 PM
Oct 2020

On so many levels. It is completely unacceptable for the church to do this. Churches should lose their tax exempt status.

Mariana

(14,856 posts)
25. This is going on in thousands of Christian churches.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:48 PM
Oct 2020

It's most prevalent in the Evangelical ones, but it's not exclusive to them by any means. There will be no enforcement.

Mariana

(14,856 posts)
38. The majority of Catholic voters cast their ballots for Trump in 2016.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:04 PM
Oct 2020

I'm sure there was plenty of encouragement from their clergy then as well.

shrike3

(3,583 posts)
49. Fifty-two percent of all Catholics supported Trump. But his mainstay of support
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 04:18 PM
Oct 2020

is from white Catholics. Hispanic Catholics not so much. Among AA Catholics, I imagine his support is negligible. Why I go to an AA Catholic Church.

True Blue American

(17,984 posts)
32. We had that same problem with the local Catholic Churches when
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 01:57 PM
Oct 2020

Obama ran. Big expose.

I was in a Protestant Church. The old bigoted Pastor told us to vote against Obama. I reported him to the Investigative Reporters. I left, so did half the Church over time. The new young Pastor came to visit me. I told him why I left. He assured me that would not happen, but I was going elsewhere.

Sogo

(4,986 posts)
37. This sh*t's been going on for years.
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:03 PM
Oct 2020

I 2004, I was attending my mother's church with her, and during the sermon, the priest said that anyone who voted Democrat was complicit in murder and that the Catholic hospitals would be forced to do abortions.

It was all I could do to not stand up and confront the priest right there on the spot. I did not,r only because my Mom would have been mortified.

If these idiots are going to be telling people from the alter how to vote, they should lose their tax-exempt status.

Beringia

(4,316 posts)
40. Thanks for sharing
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:08 PM
Oct 2020


My father was a dyed in the wool Catholic for part of his life, almost became a monk. But he went his own way later. I visited my 3 aunts from his side once and they had on the Catholic TV station, it was wall to wall men and gave me the heebie-jeebies.

WyattKansas

(1,648 posts)
44. Perhaps instead of trying to get the IRS to enforce it's rules...
Mon Oct 26, 2020, 02:16 PM
Oct 2020

People should be asking the Vatican why the Pope has his Catholic Churches pushing tRUMP's attacks on Biden?

And swamping the Vatican about it's belligerent abuse of their followers with fear tactics to favor tRUMP will only cause a further backlash within the Catholic Church and it's ability to be taken seriously, especially for favoring a thug without any morals or religious values.

Why toy with a nonstarter with the IRS when you can make the Deacon be accountable for his abuse of power from his bosses?

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