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Thu Nov 5, 2020, 08:59 PM

I'm about to give up.

A few points added on edit:

- I live in a fairly progressive community. Being surrounded by red hatters isn't an issue to me - the great majority of people where I live, and in my profession, would rather eat a live tarantula than vote for Trump.

- I'm increasingly confident that Biden will win the presidency. But it's not going to make a difference as long as McConnell is in charge of the Senate. There won't be real accountability for those who committed crimes in the Trump administration. Biden can probably reverse some of Trump's executive orders, but he'll never get to appoint someone to the Supreme Court. His agenda will die of starvation in Senate committees. And because nothing will get done, Americans will vote for a Republican in 2024.

- Even worse, we can't claim that Trump is being thrown out in disgrace. He may have lost the popular vote, but the margin is a lot narrower than it should have been. This means we don't just have to worry about his rabid core of dead enders - it's almost half of the country's population.


--------------------------------

I'm serious.

This election should have been a blowout. That it wasn't tells me that too many people looked at someone with a long history of moderate politics in government, someone who accepts physical reality, and decided that a lying bigoted loudmouth with artificial skin color and a lengthy record of denying what everyone can plainly see would be a better president. Even after four years of demonstrable failure and national embarrassment.

I'm tired to death of being told that I don't understand rural America, or coal miners, or evangelicals, or any other class of people who voted for Trump. I grew up in a working class family, I used to be a very serious Roman Catholic, I have a degree in geology, and I live in the upper midwest. And way beyond that, I've listened to people who voted for Trump ad nauseam. I think I've got a perfectly good understanding of such people.

The problem is that these people don't understand us. And because we're told to respect all sides (as if there's more than one legitimate side), and because there's an intricate media infrastructure that both feeds and gets fed by a market dedicated to membership in a group of people who know "the truth" and hold the key to being a "real American," getting them to even be willing to understand us is a lost cause.

This is why I'm repeatedly told that I want to take everyone's guns, shove socialized medicine down everyone's throats, and take everyone's hard-earned money. Which I don't. Which no Democrat does.

Solving a problem doesn't work if half of the people needed to find a solution don't think there's a problem in the first place.

It's not going to get better.

Next opportunity to get a job outside the US, I'm taking it.



54 replies, 3099 views

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Arrow 54 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm about to give up. (Original post)
cab67 Nov 2020 OP
MissB Nov 2020 #1
TwilightZone Nov 2020 #15
TwilightZone Nov 2020 #2
meadowlander Nov 2020 #10
moose65 Nov 2020 #14
rzemanfl Nov 2020 #3
canetoad Nov 2020 #16
rzemanfl Nov 2020 #20
canetoad Nov 2020 #22
rzemanfl Nov 2020 #24
canetoad Nov 2020 #30
SheltieLover Nov 2020 #4
fierywoman Nov 2020 #5
consider_this Nov 2020 #25
fierywoman Nov 2020 #29
BumRushDaShow Nov 2020 #34
smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #33
fierywoman Nov 2020 #47
smirkymonkey Nov 2020 #51
electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #39
fierywoman Nov 2020 #41
electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #46
fierywoman Nov 2020 #48
electric_blue68 Nov 2020 #52
Freddie Nov 2020 #6
TwilightZone Nov 2020 #8
Freddie Nov 2020 #13
SharonAnn Nov 2020 #53
Yavin4 Nov 2020 #12
JI7 Nov 2020 #18
canetoad Nov 2020 #21
Mr.Bill Nov 2020 #28
JonLP24 Nov 2020 #31
Yavin4 Nov 2020 #37
JonLP24 Nov 2020 #40
Freddie Nov 2020 #44
cab67 Nov 2020 #42
Freddie Nov 2020 #43
JonLP24 Nov 2020 #45
shrike3 Nov 2020 #50
shrike3 Nov 2020 #49
crimycarny Nov 2020 #7
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Nov 2020 #9
AmericanCanuck Nov 2020 #11
Kaleva Nov 2020 #17
mahina Nov 2020 #19
rzemanfl Nov 2020 #23
MoonlitKnight Nov 2020 #26
rzemanfl Nov 2020 #32
Mr.Bill Nov 2020 #27
BlueNProud Nov 2020 #35
Wednesdays Nov 2020 #36
mtnsnake Nov 2020 #38
progressoid Nov 2020 #54

Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:01 PM

1. This election would look so much different if PA

And a few other states (WI? MI?) could’ve opened and started the beginning part of ballot processing before Election Day.

It would’ve been looking a helluva lot better.

Result would be the same but with less angst.

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Response to MissB (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:11 PM

15. Agreed.

Had it been called Election Night, we're talking about this as an enormous win. It's still an enormous win, but the uncertainty is blunting the impact.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:05 PM

2. It's very difficult to beat an incumbent, and Trump's support is historically stable.

Contrary to what we all wanted to believe (including me), this was never going to be a blowout. Many of us assumed that Trump *had* to lose support, but that belief wasn't based in reality.

Assuming he wins NV, AZ, PA, and/or GA, Biden's accomplishment is highly impressive. GA should be a shocker to everyone, but it doesn't seem that many realize just how significant it is.

We're disappointed about the Senate outcome, but I think our expectations were similarly a bit too elevated. We still have a shot with the two runoffs, but our next shot is 2022. It's the long game.

I do agree that many Trump supporters are a lost cause. As you noted, we've been told that we need to figure them out. I disagree. I think we should write them off to a large degree and focus on the voters for whom our message is positive. Turnout is always going to be the key as it was this cycle.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:09 PM

10. Also, they cheated a lot.

The GOP have turned purging voter rolls, gerrymandering and suppressing turnout into an art form.

Yes, 35% of the country should still have gotten off their ass and voted in the first place and 34% of the country is irretrievably wicked or insane but 36% got us over the line this week.

Giving up isn't going to make it better.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:11 PM

14. Well said

We don’t need to try to understand or convert hardcore Trump lovers. They are a lost cause. Instead, we need to concentrate on younger voters, people of color, LGBT folks, and unaffiliated voters who are receptive to our ideas.

And you’re right - it’s a long haul. We cry a little, then dust ourselves off and start again.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:05 PM

3. Good luck to you in your new country. I'm 73 and stuck here. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:11 PM

16. I have a spare room

With 'rzemanfl' on the door. Catc ya soon buddy!

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Response to canetoad (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:15 PM

20. Where the hell is oz? Bass Coast? n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:16 PM

22. About as far from the US

As you can go without interplanetary travel.

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Response to canetoad (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:18 PM

24. Do I need ruby slippers to visit family or would a hard whack on the head work? n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:25 PM

30. I have a secret garden

Behind my shed that contains the magical essence (at certain times of the year) to take you wherever your heart desires.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:05 PM

4. Voting machines & USPS



PA absentee ballots match polling!

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:06 PM

5. Babe, I lived abroad for 12 years. Mexico City (4 yrs), Firenze (1 yr), Venezia (7 yrs.)

I worked as a classical musician playing in their best orchestras. So I was very much part of the most exalted part of their culture. Sweetie-pie, if you think that by leaving the USA you'll leave the trumpists (& their mentality) behind, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you.

I send you peace and calm waters.

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:19 PM

25. I'm glad I read your post...

In the past several years I thought about if leaving here should be considered, and in the last few days, thought hard on it. Then I came to the personal conclusion that this election is really a referendum on the nature of humans in general. I tend to think that there are always going to be at least a 30 - 50 % of selfish assholes and/or ignorant members of a herd, and expect it would be no different anywhere. I was contemplating this idea, and your post rather backs up those thoughts.

I am hoping we can still strive to make the best of what we can, wherever we are - and today, that is here.

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Response to consider_this (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:25 PM

29. And remember: in Spanish and in Italian, there's no word for "freedom." Imagine how that

affects the psyche of the populace. "Liberty" -- yes, but as an American, "freedom" is much dearer to me than "liberty."
Although I will say, the food in Italy is better -- but when I lived there, I could never find ginger -- or avocados -- or thyme! I endlessly heard, "Da noi facciamo cosi`" -- we do it this way. And they tell you how to do EVERYTHING.

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Response to consider_this (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:32 PM

34. OT but

I want to steal that "Land doesn't vote. People do" sig graphic!

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:32 PM

33. What an interesting history! Can you expand on your experience a bit? I, and I am sure others,

would be interested to hear what you have to say about living in those cultures as opposed to living here in the US. Especially regarding politics. I know every country has its right-wingers, but is it really as bad in those places as it is here? At least they aren't armed to the teeth, as far as I know.

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:10 PM

47. May I start by saying, if you have a yen to live abroad to experience another culture, do work that

you can't do here, etc., then absolutely: go for it. I loved the experiences I had living abroad. My life is vastly richer experience-wise because of those experiences.

When I first moved to Mexico (1978) I was (typically American -- or to be pc, I should say, "North American" ) very unaware -- so much so that, when my orch was planning a tour of South America in 1979, the conductor said, "We're having such problems with the visas --" (the orch was comprised of Mexicans, USA Americans, Bulgarians, Poles and Russians; it was like all 3 worlds in one.) He continued, "The Cubans don't want the Americans. The Argentinians don't want the Russians." At the time, I had no idea what on earth he was talking about. Eventually I learned -- and I learned that EVERYTHING in life is political.

Frankly, smirkymonkey, I could go on and on, but I don't know where to begin.

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:10 PM

51. Ok, thank you for that.

I just love to hear about people's experiences living abroad. I spent a semester living in Austria as a college student and it was one of the most wonderful times of my life. I would love the opportunity to live abroad again, but I think due to my age and work status, I wouldn't be able to swing it.

It might be possible to retire abroad if I could settle my student loan, but that is kind of a big if. What did you think of Italy? There is a slight possibility that I could get Italian/EU membership since my Italian grandfather wasn't a naturalized US citizen until after my father was born, so I think I could technically qualify. However, I don't know if it would be worth the hassle unless things got really bad over here.

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:47 PM

39. May I ask what instrument(s) you play(ed)...

Many, many years ago a friend of my sister's stayed over night. She was/is a cellist. She played a few pieces on her instrument. It was wonderful.

I love music, and especially live. 🎵 💖 🎶

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:49 PM

41. The viola. Which is very funny in Spanish -- una violista can also be read as one who violates ...

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:05 PM

46. Oh, I played viola for one year in 5th grade...

I wanted the clarinet, or the violin.

I think they gave me the viola bc I had hit pueberty so I got taller, and curvy - they probably thought give the violin to one of the smaller girls.

I remember we used to race up & down the hallway balancing our bows on the palm of our hands. I know, not the way to treat it.

I did get the clarinet the next year! My sis played the bassoon for 3 yrs in HS.

Oh, crazy about the dual phrase. Such a terrible one.

Thanks for answering.

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Response to electric_blue68 (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:12 PM

48. Good for you!

Meh -- we do terrible things with our bows sometimes!

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Response to fierywoman (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 11:40 PM

52. Thanks, and ha!

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:06 PM

6. My son says the problem is Biden is too centrist, not progressive enough

I think he’s wrong. Bernie would not have done as well.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:08 PM

8. Biden was probably the perfect candidate for this election.

He's the anti-Trump. He's everything Trump isn't. The contrast couldn't be more stark. His temperament is the polar opposite. I think that he was exactly what we needed at this point in time, especially with the pandemic in full stride.

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Response to TwilightZone (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:11 PM

13. Agree

My son is 30. He voted for Biden unhappily. I told him we have to start somewhere. IMO Bernie would have lost decisively.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 12:04 AM

53. Absolutely he would've lost.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:10 PM

12. Biden was the ONLY candidate the Democrats had that could beat Trump

The ONLY one.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:13 PM

18. Exactly, The attacks were starting to hurt him also but the fact most people knew

him was what made it tougher. That's why they started targeting Harris .

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:15 PM

21. Thank you. That has been my belief

For quite some time. Nothing against the other candidates - they are all exceptional people, but....

I won't go so far as to say the Joe/Kamala ticket was preordained by the party, but it looks like they have done a job that no-one else could have done.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:24 PM

28. Exactly.

Imagine any other Democrat at the debates and think of where we would be right now if they got the nomination.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:26 PM

31. I doubt it

You don't have to pick Sanders. You could have picked someone like Booker or someone who can do well in debates like Kamala Harris. I'm just saying I don't think Biden is the only one.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:41 PM

37. No other Dem could be this competitive in PA

It was one of the primary reasons why Obama chose him to be his VP. Obama lost the 2008 primary in PA, and he knew that it would be difficult to win the presidency without PA.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #37)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:48 PM

40. Wasn't Pennsylvania a reliable blue state until 2016?

I don't know what it is with Trump and the blue wall. You are probably right Biden does have an advantage in Pennsylvania.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:57 PM

44. Yes we were

Normally - and I think we’ll see this in a few hours - the cities outvote Pennsyltucky. 2016 was an outlier (IMO) due to, hate to say, lack of enthusiasm for HRC among many city folks.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:50 PM

42. Bernie would have been a catastrophe, in my opinion.

Anyone to the left of Donald Trump would have been tarred as a commie. That Sanders comes close to actually promoting that persona would have driven a lot of people away.

My opinion, anyway.

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Response to cab67 (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:54 PM

43. Totally agree re Bernie

The younger crowd doesn’t get that. He voted for Biden “with his nose closed” but at least he did, helped Palm Beach Co. stay blue despite the rest of the state.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:59 PM

45. Young voters are why Democrats win elections

Bernie Sanders Can Beat Trump. Here’s the Math.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/opinion/bernie-sanders-polls.html

Basically young & latino/hispanic (he did well with them in the primaries) would have carried him over the edge like they are with Biden.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #45)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:19 PM

50. That's a pipe dream, IMO



There aren't enough progressives in this country to put a progressive president in office.

And young people didn't show up in the primaries. How could we have depended on them to show up in the general. This article is dated Feb. 28. Not really relevant now, IMO.

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Response to Freddie (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 10:16 PM

49. I hear that a lot from Bernie supporters. They don't seem to understand.


Bernie is an actual social democrat. The Trump campaign managed to convince millions of Americans that Biden would turn America into a socialist hellhole. Imagine the bloodbath we'd have had if an actual social democrat had run.

I'm sure your son is a lovely person, but he is wrong.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:06 PM

7. I wouldn't rule out election interference

It’s extremely odd to me that unhackable mail-in ballots match polls almost exactly while votes tallied via machines are wildly off the polls, and ALL in favor of Trump.

We need more secure elections, period. I just don’t buy that the polls were that far off again.

Georgia switched to all paper ballots. Do you think what’s happening in Georgia is an anomaly from all other states that are wildly off the polls and going for Trump....that is until they started counting mail-in ballots?

No, something stinks to high heaven. Why do you think Trump fought so hard against mail-in ballots?

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:08 PM

9. Things never turn out exactly as we want them.

We won. Let's take it from there and build on it.

Perfection only exists in the land of make believe.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:09 PM

11. Stop it

 

We are going to win this. Such posts are not helpful.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:13 PM

17. And it's always been this way since the War of independence.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:13 PM

19. I read you. It's going to take a lot of luck, work, determination

And money to recover.

What kind of work are you in if I might ask? I love a few young people who are at the deciding on career stage and I’d love to be able to suggest something positive and portable.

Best luck. Please stay registered to vote?

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Response to mahina (Reply #19)


Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:19 PM

26. I'm moving away too.

Georgia might be a good place to reside until January 5th. I hear a couple of Senate candidates could use some votes.

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Response to MoonlitKnight (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:28 PM

32. PM me if you find a place. n/t

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:20 PM

27. You can always have a little fun

by asking them why they are so preoccupied with things being rammed down their throats.

And they use that term a lot.

I am also seriously shopping garage sales and thrift stores for a GI Joe doll so I can take it out and ask "Show us on the doll where the bad man took your gun."

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:35 PM

35. That was well written and I agree

these fuckers are just going to get more and more crazy.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:38 PM

36. Bye.

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Thu Nov 5, 2020, 09:44 PM

38. You might find the happiness you're looking for if you move to a major city right here in the USA

but if that doesn't suit you, and you really want to get a job in a new country, consider applying for a work permit in Canada with hopes of living in either Toronto, Montreal, or Ottawa. I've been to that country hundreds of times and it's fantastic. Good luck to you!

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Response to cab67 (Original post)

Fri Nov 6, 2020, 01:14 AM

54. Sadly, if there had been no Covid-19, Trump would easily won.

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