The reality about working class whites...

[Drunken Irishman]

...we keep hearing how the Democrats must work on their messaging so they appeal to working class whites. Of course, this is often mentioned as just working class, ignoring the fact Biden won the working class vote overall. No, what they mean is working class whites.

It's something we've heard for years now: Democrats need to appeal more to this group. Even Andrew Yang said as much.

The reality is that we can't appeal to this group. Biden ran on a fairly populist agenda, with the backing of every major labor union and fully supporting a $15 minimum wage, something he's advocated for since Obama was president - and it didn't change a lot of minds. Florida voted to raise the minimum wage to $15 and yet supported politicians who opposed it.

Why?

Because it's not about economics. It's never been about economics. Sure, you could point to trade but that's only a sliver of an issue and, up until Trump, the GOP was even more pro-free trade than the mainstream of the Democratic Party and yet guys like Kerry and even Obama were losing to Bush, McCain and Romney among these voters.

Again, it's not economic issues.

It's social issues. Same as it ever was.

It's nationalism and nativism. It's guns. It's religion. It's even abortion.

They're conservative.

To them, those issues matter more than whether the Democratic Party supports a minimum wage or fairer trade.

Obama saved the auto industry and still lost the white working class vote in Ohio & Michigan.

These voters ain't voting Democrat. It just isn't happening. The more we keep pushing this idea it's just messaging, the more we continue to chase a unicorn.

These voters are not going to vote Democratic at the presidential level. We need to stop trying to fixate on them and instead fixate on the voters we can win: working class people of color, college educated voters of all stripes, urban voters and suburban voters who helped deliver the White House to Biden.

But the future is not won by winning over working class whites. It just isn't going to happen. They'll vote on social issues every single time.

[Sanity Claws]

1. RW Propaganda has poisoned working class people against unions

and other forms of collective action.
People are unable to discern their own interest because of the incessant RW propaganda, IMHO.

[mr_lebowski]

2. OTOH, it's not that hard to come off as ...

Pro-America
Anti-ILLEGAL immigration
Not PRO-abortion (only pro-choice)
Not overtly Anti-Religion
Pro-Responsible Gun Control rather than Anti-Gun
Not Socialist, but Pro-Programs that improve life for everyone
Not Anti-White people
Not Pro-expanding government for the sake of expanding government control over people's lives

You CAN improve Democrats appeal, or at least reduce these peoples arguments against voting against us in many cases w/o seriously compromising our ideals.

I'm not saying a lot of the above is not already what we do, but A LOT of the problems we face are just ineffective messaging of what we ACTUALLY believe in/stand for.

'Free College' and 'Medicare for All' are good examples of good ideas with shit messaging.

And don't get me started on 'Defund the Police'.

Just sayin'.

[redstatebluegirl]

5. The defund the police stuff sent 3 of my friends back to Trump.

I had them in our corner and then that nonsense started. Words matter!

[StarfishSaver]

28. Of course, you know your friends better than I do

But I just don't believe they decided to vote for Trump because some progressive activists said "defund the police." Maybe that's what the said, but I don't believe that anyone voting for Trump is doing so simply because of something like that. Whenever I hear anyone say such things, I suspect they were going to vote for him anyway but weren't willing to admit it and are using "defund the police" as an excuse.

[redstatebluegirl]

32. I disagree, when you have people who have always voted one way getting them to change

is always tricky, habit is a tough thing to break. They just hated Trump, they hated the division he had caused. But they truly believed that Democrats wanted to get rid of the police. All three of them had been victims of crime in the past 10 years, I'm sure that had something to do with it, and no, the perps were all white, in one case it was a couple of 16 year old boys. It messes with you when you have had to call the police because something has happened to you or someone you love.

I want the defund police nonsense to stop or we are toast. I am sorry I believe the police need serious reform, I don't ever want to see another innocent life taken by the police, but you can't just say get rid of them and have a lot of people follow you.

[StarfishSaver]

34. So ... They hate Trump and everything he stands for but they think "defunding the police"

even after it was explained to them what it meant was worse than having a hateful, racist, incompetent president who consistently undermines law enforcement, cuts their pay, craps on their unions, and whose only interest in the police is having them stand around him at his rallies and when he's defending them after they murder another innocent black man?

Sorry. I don't buy it.

And if they are telling the truth, I wonder about he company you're keeping ...

[Progressive Jones]

38. This sounds mean, but it's true. "Trumpamerica" is short on smarts and character. nt

[Yeehah]

39. Cool story, bro.

Really cool

[Turin_C3PO]

6. But Democrats are none of those things you listed.

Just because Republicans fall for propaganda doesn’t mean that Democrats are doing anything wrong. The white working class votes Rethugs because many of them are racist, gun humping, bigots. Screw them. We can win without them. If we can increase turnout among minorities and youth, that ensures the Democrats‘ future wins.

[mr_lebowski]

7. And I'm saying we need to do a better job of fighting that propaganda somehow

And we don't need to change who we are to do that.

So we should try, IMHO. It's worth the effort cause if we can swing just like 10% of these people back to our side we'll be in VERY good shape electorally.

[Turin_C3PO]

8. I'm not against attempting

to fight propaganda but the ball‘s in their court. They must be willing to open their minds.

[mr_lebowski]

14. We have a consensus then

One other thing ... I really wish Bernie would change his 'affiliation' to 'Social Democrat'

(not saying join the Democratic party, just stop calling himself 'socialist')

[Caliman73]

15. But you didn't say it was about propaganda. You said Democrats can ...

No matter how "moderate" we become, or try to appear, the right will ALWAYS use strawmen and lies to try to define us to their small but reliably brainwashed base.

What needs to happen is that we need to dismantle right wing media somehow. I don't know how, but the reality is if you put an R behind Democratic policies and our platform, 85%+ of Republicans would support it. We already have 70% support for most "liberal" policies in polling. When you start putting the D behind the policy, then the support shifts and that is because everything we try to do is labeled socialist and we are trying to ram transgender men into girls bathrooms, and the most inane crap you can think of. That is all that many of those "working class" AKA White blue collar workers are hearing in their media markets. If you haven't already, I strongly suggest viewing HEIST Who Stole the American Dream. It is streaming free on YouTube.

[beachbumbob]

3. If it's about isms then democrats need to talk differently and stop GOP from

framing who we are and what our expectations are. It boils down to messaging and we suck at it.

[matt819]

4. Spot on, I think

It's about people not like them:

`` LGBTQ+ frighten them.
`` Same with Blacks, Hispanics, non-Christians, immigrants. It's not so much about white supremacy as it is white superiority. It's about some antiquated version of a status quo that has not been in America since the 1980s.
`` Abortion. This despite the actual fact that abortions decline under Democratic presidents.
`` Anti-intellectual, which covers anti-science, climate denial, anti-elites. Why are they this way? Who the fuck knows. I think it's because they don't want any disturbance of their very closeted world view. Maybe they don't have the intellectual capacity to take it all in. Maybe it's crisis overload. Maybe it's because they just aren't interested. Maybe they're just trying to put food on the table. Or maybe this, maybe that. As I said, who the fuck knows.

But I think you're right about the core issue. It's not the economy (apart from jobs), it's not about foreign policy, it's not about infrastructure.

[ck4829]

9. I wonder what the difference is... I'm lower class/working class and a white guy

I’m also very left wing (Fan of AOC, Omar, Tlaib, Pressley, etc. pro-refugee, pro-black lives matter, support single payer, and more) and I’m also a strong Democratic voter.

I’m college educated, but I’ve voluntarily taken a job where it’s not required.

I prioritize serving the public over making a profit.

Maybe there are other factors too, I’m genuinely curious as to what sets me apart from other people.

I know I’m odd, but I can’t be THAT odd.

[Drunken Irishman]

10. You just said the difference: you're college educated.

That right there makes you different than most working class whites. Many are not college educated.

[Caliman73]

16. What media do you consume?

I would imagine that with your background, you likely consume a lot of different types of media from mainstream corporate, to left leaning and leftist publications. I would also imagine that when you get information, you check it against various sources before you adopt it as "true".

That is likely a big difference.

Tell me if I am wrong on any of that.

[ck4829]

18. You're not wrong at all

Last edited Fri Nov 13, 2020, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Daily Show, LBN here on DU, social media, the Economist, CNN, publications by the Southern Poverty Law Center, it’s not media in the traditional sense but I listen to what people are saying on the street and on the bus, I even look at Fox News every once in a while to see what they are saying.

And yep, I pretty much have a permanent tab open for Snopes and related sites, and I google what I hear about.

[Caliman73]

21. Exactly.

That is a critical difference.

There was a study back in the early 2000's that indicated that more than 70% of conservatives got their information from one source, typically Fox News. Obviously there are many more right wing sources now, but they basically all have the same coordinated message so it would still be relatively single source with degrees of crazy.

Liberals on the other hand, were getting their information from at least 6 distinct sources.

It explained in part, why Fox had higher viewership, and why conservatives were universally less informed than non-conservatives.

[StarfishSaver]

29. You not being a racist is a big difference

[ck4829]

37. Thanks

[Yavin4]

11. They feel a sense of powerlessness not because of the economy, but because of the culture.

The American culture is moving away from them. A Black woman is the next James Bond, that's a vote for Trump. The hero of the new Star Wars movies is a woman, that's a vote for Trump. Gays are allowed to marry, that's a vote for Trump. And on and on and on.

Their culture no longer sits at the pinnacle, so they turned to Trump to regain control. Of course, he did nothing about it.

In the end, all they really want to do is : "Own the Libs".

[Drunken Irishman]

13. Agreed. Ironically, they're the real snowflakes.

They're scared voters who've been coddled their entire life and now are struggling to grasp a changing country.

People railed against Obama but the 2010s, under his presidency, were probably the most progressive years this country has seen since the 60s.

We also witnessed a similar blowback against liberalism then too.

Let's hope this blowback doesn't last as long.

[Caliman73]

20. I agree for the most part.

I do think that there are economic worries too. They likely grew up in a time where their blue collar dads could support the whole family on one salary and they had good benefits to boot. Now, they are not achieving that standard of living. Here is where the "culture" part comes in. They have bought into the right wing ideas that "Unions screwed them because they were too greedy" Black and Brown (illegals) people undercut their prosperity for "reasons". Women choosing their own health and life paths are somehow destroying society. LGBTQ people living their own lives somehow is impacting them.

The attributions are key.

On the left, we see many of the problems of society from the standpoint of very wealthy people and corporations having such a large share of the wealth of the nation, and hoarding that wealth, that the rest of us are left to fight for resources that are left over.

For example, there is ALWAYS money to fight the next war, but the age for Social Security has risen steadily. Also, education and social programs are always on the chopping block but subsidies for oil and gas are steady or growing. The fundamental attributions are different on the different sides of the political spectrum.

I said this awhile back in a thread about "elites". Our view of elites is also different. Right wingers, when they say "elites" derisively speak about academics, scientists, experts, and politicians (although they do not refer to themselves as elites). When we say elites, we are talking about multi-billionaires and multi-millionaires who have the power to move markets or impact industry. We also discuss how money has "captured" politicians, but we include everyone who appears to be spending most of their time advocating for big money regardless of party affiliation.

[BusyBeingBest]

22. Yep. We (those of us who are middle class or working class) are all riding in the

same economic boat, but blame very different factors for our struggles. They're fixated on taxes and unions and immigration, we're fixated on stagnated wages, insane health care/inusrance system, unaffordable day care and college.

[StarfishSaver]

30. And what and whom they blame is driven by certain factors - including, in large part, racism

They do more than blame taxes and unions and immigration. They blame black and brown people whom they fear are getting in their way and they're pissed about it because they truly believe they should be doing better than we are.

[Yavin4]

24. Even if we bring back every factory job sent overseas and gave them middle class wages with benefits

they would still vote for Trump because of the culture wars and other progressive secular, social movements. Economic appeals to them won't move the needle.

They're hatred of "elites" is based on their lack of membership in that group. They want their culture (Christianity, guns, pick up trucks, college football) to be the "elite" culture. You're right. We see elites in terms of the economic power that the uber wealthy have over our lives and make our lives into this manic competition for dwindling resources. They see "elite" as leaders of a culture that is moving away from them.

They're angry that major urban cities like NY, SF, LA, Boston, etc. are not the hell holes that they were told about. When they see every other movie, TV show taking place in NY and people seem to be living a great life. That angers them. SF should have burned down like Sodom and Gomorrah a long time.

For evidence, watch Jeane Kirkpatrick's 1984 GOP Convention Speech where she derided "San Francisco Democrats":

[farmbo]

12. Run John Fetterman (Pa. Lt. Gov) for POTUS and we'll bring them back

Many White non-educated voters and their wives need a strong Daddy figure. Nothing more.
Actual policies are irrelevant to them.

[Barbara2423]

17. It's the threat of equality white people are afraid of.

Example: you have 10 job openings, 5 will be given to whites. The remaining will go to Blacks, Asians, Hispanics,women, and others. I don't understand why white (racists) are afraid, they are still in charge.

[StarfishSaver]

31. And they feel those 5 that went to others were stolen from them

And, on the other hand, if all 10 went to white people, they'd insist it was just the natural order - merit - and attack anyone who claimed it wasn't for "playing the race card."

[mopinko]

19. it's cuz being white is all they have.

[StarfishSaver]

35. Ding ding ding

They were promised their whiteness was a valuable commodity. And when they look around and see people of color doing as well as and better than they are, rather than question the lie they were sold, they lash out. And then along comes a Trump who feeds and gives voice to their anger and frustration, and they lap up whatever he tells them.

They're lost. Democrats need to stop chasing after them.

[JI7]

23. It's identity politics for them

[StarfishSaver]

26. I'm gonna give you a big old kiss

THANK YOU for writing this!

[lagomorph777]

27. Appeal to the working class. Whites are welcome to join, or not.

Leave them the option to refuse union membership; the excess wages they don't want can be donated to a worthy cause, such as homeless shelters, soup kitchens, or COVID relief.

[betsuni]

36. K&R

[WyattKansas]

40. The Democratic Party just needs to do a lot better at educating voters about the issues...

That make a real difference in their lives, like President-Elect Biden has been doing and injecting FDR Policies into it while getting the chance. It sells a lot better than using the Republican names and descriptions of Democratic Policies, because even Republicans love FDR.

Avoiding being pigeonholed off into seeming like standing up for only one group of people and moving the country to remember and want what FDR did for the country nullifies what Republicans have been doing for decades, because it rebuilds the middle class and lifts up those at the bottom.

Also, by all means point out the actual records of which Party achieves what for the last several decades in explaining the difference between Republican Policies and Democratic Policies, along with pointing out everywhere Republican Policies and Ideals are total failures compared to Democratic Policies and Ideals. Go on the attack and pound them over and over with how the Republicans have been destructive and authoritarian about most Americans suffering more.

[Duppers]

41. Exactly! Thank you!

K&R