Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

UCmeNdc

(9,600 posts)
Fri Nov 13, 2020, 11:52 PM Nov 2020

What Democratic Unity Would Look Like

Progressives and centrists are fighting in the Democratic Party, but there is much work to be done -- and it can only be done if we are unified.

Today, though, I want to spend a moment envisioning what Democrats might be able to do if we united and pushed for change together.

First, I want to talk about what the kind of unity that actually gets shit done looks like. True unity is not the absence of vigorous debate on policy or on political strategy. What it is instead is having all those debates play out in the legislative and governing process, and then bringing everyone together through mutual respect and a willingness to work out our differences, so that we actually pass legislation. It is also working with the Biden administration to enact new executive orders and regulations that make a tangible difference in people’s lives.

We can have vigorous debates without backbiting... Let me pause here a moment to talk about the fighting that is already going on. Centrist Democrats like Abigail Spanberger and Kurt Schrader -- before the election had even been called for Biden, before we knew the final results on a lot of House races and those two Senate races, before we had a chance to really dig into the data -- immediately began attacking progressives for everything that went wrong in an election where we had just won the presidency and kept the House. AOC fired back quickly in an interview in the NYT, where she talked about the work she had done supporting swing district colleagues, all of whom won their races, and where she pointed out that the losing candidates often had a deficit of investment in digital organizing. Thankfully, proving what a smart and strategic person she is, Con. Ocasio-Cortez followed up with this great statement in The Hill, which I agree with 100%:

There are, at least in the House caucus, very deep divisions within the party, and I believe that we need to really come together and not allow Republican narratives to tear us apart... [With a slimmer Democratic majority] it’s going to be more important than ever for us to work together and not fight each other.

I am more on AOC’s side on the specifics of her argument -- progressive groups and activists did more to turnout the voters we needed in this election than anyone else -- but more importantly, her unity perspective should prevail. The internal finger-pointing (as opposed to the healthy issues debate mentioned above) should stop, at least right now when we don’t even have good data to analyze the results. In any case, can’t we all just acknowledge that Republicans are going to call us all socialists no matter what? That to hurt Democrats, they might seize on any ill-advised slogan some activists throw out in a demonstration, or simply just make stuff up about us? There is plenty of time for analysis, positioning, and debates on where the party should go, primary fights, etc. down the road.


https://crooksandliars.com/2020/11/what-democratic-unity-would-look
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

BComplex

(8,051 posts)
1. It's the same divide between the old world we used to live in, and the new world we're all trying
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 01:04 AM
Nov 2020

to figure out.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
2. I'll cut to the chase. Why did the republicans attack calling us socialist work?
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 01:14 AM
Nov 2020

It quite simple. For over 4 years the 2nd most popular candidate in the Democratic Primaries has called himself a socialist. So it’s not to big a stretch for most Americans to think a lot of democrats are socialist.

Words matter. Adjective Noun. If the noun in your self description is socialist, then you are a self declared socialist.

No matter how people try to spin it, that’s the obvious truth.

comradebillyboy

(10,147 posts)
3. Sadly some would rather be provocative than productive.
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 02:21 AM
Nov 2020

Anybody old enough to remember the Soviet Union knows that socialism was a colossal failure. Most people think think the police are necessary for an orderly society and will reject anyone wanting to defund them. Only the fringe wants to abolish capitalism while the vast majority of Americans are employed by for profit companies.

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
4. no elected Dem is even a socialist. Not even close. Bernie falsely self-labels and the DSA
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 02:46 AM
Nov 2020

helped AOC to win, so she jumped on the train as well and foolishly self-labelled as a democratic socialist too. None of them want to nationalise the means of production. I have bee trying for close to 6 years to get the Berners (since early 2015, long before I going here) to stop the false self-labelling. They think (with shedloads of hubris) that they can wave a magic wand and redefine 200 year old academic and well over 100 year old everyday parlance definitions (and in a partially super reactionary nation-state like the US it is double madness). They ALL are social democrats, nothing more, nothing less, just like all the Nordic nations' largest (on and off, mostly on) parties and most of the EU as well. AOC has backed off the label more than Bernie and the SMALL (as in 2 or 3) handful of others have done. They ALL need to distance themselves from the DSA, who are a hodgepodge and have some very active actual socialist and even communist (most Trotskyites) sectors. It is hurting the party and hurting their own goals.

comradebillyboy

(10,147 posts)
5. When Bernie and the DSA types tell me they are socialists
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 11:05 AM
Nov 2020

I believe them. Are you suggesting Bernie is not telling the truth or are you suggesting Bernie doesn't actually know what socialism is?

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
7. They have a false definition of socialism, yes. What they claim is socialism
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 09:26 PM
Nov 2020

is simply bog standard social democracy, like most of the EU has to varying but significant degrees, especially here in the Nordics. Bernie has said repeatedly he does not believe in the state taking over the means of production, which is a core tenant of actual socialism. Their systemic programmes are simply not socialism.

Bernie, AOC and the couple of others who have self-labelled as dem socs give a definition of socialism that is literally social democratic boilerplate. They are just foolishly trying to rename it. Highly regulated, yet vibrant, robust capitalism working synergistically with a broad expansive social safety net and welfare state. That is the Nordic model that has worked so well for us post WWII (and before WWII to a point). That is what they want, but try to rename as socialism. It needs to stop.

comradebillyboy

(10,147 posts)
8. There would be fewer misunderstandings jf
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 12:16 AM
Nov 2020

some folks were a bit more aware of the impact of their words. I get confused when words like defund and socialist are used to mean something other than defund and socialist.

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
9. No disagreement there at all. It is my whole point. They need
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 12:25 AM
Nov 2020

to stop using false labels and slogans and stop with the hubristic thinking that they can just snap their fingers and not only redefine completely accepted, hundred plus year old definitions, but also expect people to completely understand what they are doing and accept it.

It is shooting yourself in the foot for no good reason and it is hurting the party as a whole by giving the RW fake ammo (that fake as it may be, still works on upon tens upon tens of millions of voters, especially the low info ones.)

Cheers

Sogo

(4,986 posts)
10. When we are explaining ourselves, we are losing....
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 12:28 AM
Nov 2020

Rs are usually miles ahead of their opponents in defining them, and that is half the ballgame in most races. People remember slogans and catch-phrases, and that is usually enough to inform their vote. Trump knew that by coming up with his cute little nicknames....

Celerity

(43,357 posts)
11. Exactly. When you have to explain what you actually meant, half or more of
Sun Nov 15, 2020, 12:41 AM
Nov 2020

the battle is already lost. I have been banging on about thia entire subject more or less since I joined DU. Many of my American non DU friends (and some who are not American as well) in my age cohort (18 to 30yo I am dead in the middle at 24yo) who are Bernie leaning types are just as stubborn, but I have made progress over the years with many. It is heavy lifting at times. The Swedes here instantly grasp it, as there is a large and clear difference between actual socialists and then the ruling Social Democrats. S (what we use for the Social Democrats as shorthand) has never been in a government with any of the historic actual socialist or communist parties. The most that is done is that they will enter into a 'confidence and supply' scheme with S at times. S has often been pretty hostile to the actual far left paries, including some clandestine spying operations over the decades that caused multiple controversies.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
6. The title alone reveals this as a dishonest hit piece.
Sat Nov 14, 2020, 11:19 AM
Nov 2020

Our party is overwhelmingly liberal and progressive, always generally united by ideology, and currently very strongly so. Only nuts and wannabe revolutionaries hoping to benefit from it are unconcerned by the giant threat of authoritarian destruction from the right.

Both of the house's large ideological caucuses, approximately 200 strong in total, are both liberal AND progressive. They disagree on how much to try to accomplish, how, and how fast, but are in strong agreement overall in ideals and goals. The third largest ideological caucus is the blue dogs, membership in the 20s out of 235 total, and even almost all of them support progressive government, just to a lesser degree but enough to cooperate.

Disagreements in our party are only deep divisions when dysfunctional extremists are the disagreers. There are no extremists among our Democratic senators. (I-Sanders' unproductive self-isolation has no effect on the work of Democratic senators.)

As for the house, and "AOC's side," you can count the members of her dissident group on one hand and have fingers left over. This isn't a "side." Massive puffery through hostile media, left and right, does not change their almost nonexistent power among their house colleagues, where they're much too few even to qualify for political analysts as a caucus.

As for divisions among Democratic voters, we overwhelmingly elect liberal progressives and reject those pushing socialist and/or anti-Democratic ideology, most apparently unfooled by the massive and very offensive dishonesty required to support both. Big surprise there.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What Democratic Unity Wou...