@chrislhayes We should be clear about what's happening here. For two weeks, people like @senatemajld

[riversedge]

I imagine Hayes is responding to trump putting out crazy Rudy today?? Not sure. But whatever, this shitshow is just that!! A GOP shitshow.


@chrislhayes
We should be clear about what's happening here. For two weeks, people like @senatemajldr
and @TedCruz
and the rest have hidden behind the notion that the president has the right pursue legal remedies and to allow the process to play out.

Link to tweet

?s=20

Link to tweet

?s=20

Link to tweet

?s=20

[SoonerPride]

1. Eveyone just assumes these "extra-legal means" won't work.

I am not that certain.

But whatever.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

4. if those two racist Republicans changed their votes to certify,

I have hope that the majority will win out over a dangerous maniac.

[cab67]

20. they tried to retract their chaged vote.

Didn't work, thankfully. But people will still try to come up with quasi-legal arguments to reverse the results.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

2. Heads Up for the Wrecking Ball

[maxsolomon]

3. What extra-legal means does Hayes mean?

Calling Canvassers?

Using the Military?

[Sogo]

9. Exactly.

[maxsolomon]

10. No I am really asking.

It's a pretty broad term.

[Sogo]

24. I guess it wasn't clear, but I was agreeing....

I have the same question.

[Mr. Ected]

19. Declaring a national emergency after ginning up a conflict?

Dropping bombs on Iran in the middle of the night without forewarning?

At this point, it's not just Trump trying to cover his ass from future criminal liability. It is the Republican Party collectively and most, if not all, of its adherents individually.

[TeamPooka]

28. I think he means by any means neccesary. Nothing is off the table now. The whole GOP

is now complicit

[intheflow]

29. Yes.

Calling canvassers, Graham calling SoSs in NE and GA asking them to lose some valid votes, riling up his base to reject a Biden presidency (aka, fomenting sedition), etc.

I don't think he'll call the military up because they might refuse him, but I'm bracing myself for heavily weaponized ICE, BP, and maybe the ATF to do his bidding when all legal recourses are exhausted and Biden is sworn in.

[wnylib]

30. Plus his RW militias.

This is making me think of the Medieval period when there were two popes, one in Italy and one in France.

Would Trump stage his own inauguration, claiming to be the "real" president?

Another example from history comes to mind. During the Salem witch hunt, as the accusers added more and more people to their list of witches, some prominent accused people filed slander charges in court. The accusers backed down.

So, secretaries of states and election officials who have been accused of election fraud should file slander charges against the accusers. Or, Biden should sue for slander and defamation of character.

[Marthe48]

31. trump invited MI gop leaders to the White House

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/11/19/shirkey-chatfield-set-visit-white-house-amid-election-fight/3777657001/

It is being suggested he'll try to get them to appoint electors who will not honor the majority.

I am so sick of the crap.

[soldierant]

32. Yeah. Some work and some don't.

using the military might work if the military would go along - and he might be able to get in enough "acting" civilians to make it thinkable. But generals don't get to be generals without knowing an unlawful order when they see one. I've seen nutjobs get up to Colonel (and even then, not that kind of a nutjob More of an eccentric) I haven't seen a nutjob General. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but i truly do not believe it could happen to all of them, or even enough of tehem.

Bombing another country might be possible. But successful?

Sending out Rudy? That's pretty lame.

[BeyondGeography]

5. Only the paranoid survive

I'm with Hayes. We need to start sounding some alarm bells from our side, loud and from high up the food chain. A standard Trumper line is, well, Biden's not saying anything, so he obviously knows he lost. Do we really need any more lessons on the credulity of the average American? Biden's presidency is being undermined every day this continues.

[mvd]

6. While this absolutely should not work..

We still have to watch Trump like a hawk and take it seriously. I can’t believe more media isn’t calling this the sedition attempt that it is.

[marybourg]

8. The media have read the definition of sedition.

[mvd]

11. Which media?

I really want a widespread telling to the public how against democracy Trump’s behavior is.

[better]

26. Sedition. There is no "attempted". An attempt IS sedition, whether effective or not. (nt)

[mvd]

36. You are right

Looking at the actual definition, just an act is sedition.

[malaise]

7. +1,000

Rec

[world wide wally]

12. Just because a rich guy can keep tying up the courts doesn't mean there is one grain of validity to

his case.... Not one!

[regnaD kciN]

13. He doesn't need "validity"...

...all he needs is to drag the process on until the day all electors must be chosen – at which point, the state legislatures can declare, with the outcome “still in doubt,” that they have “no choice” but to choose the electors themselves.

[leftieNanner]

16. I don't believe that all R run states can do this

Our friend catbyte instructed me this morning that Michigan legislators cannot just change the law of the land in order to please The Orange One. So it's not such an easy fix for those states. And Governor Whitmer would certainly not sign such legislation.

[treestar]

35. If the people in a state know their vote went to Biden

The legislature is going to infuriate them by doing that. Still don't see how any legislator can expect to ever be re-elected again. Even Trump voters, some of them, might realize it could happen in reverse. And the majority having voted for Biden in the state - they will be enraged at such a legislator.

The two idiots in MI realized just that - if they did not back off, they would be pariahs of that state.

[NJCher]

17. agreed, but he's not rich

He's a con and he's using his cult following to donate to the cost of staging these lawsuits.

Also, late last night I saw a statistic that says 54% of Republicans think the election was stolen. I think it was on Brian Williams, but it was late and I might be wrong on that.

[world wide wally]

23. No, he is not rich, but he gets to use "our" money to spend on his ego.

[Mr.Bill]

18. He's not rich. He's broke.

That's why he is doing this.

[William769]

14. K&R.

[hibbing]

15. He's probably the most "progressive" host on there n/t

[Mr. Ected]

21. Democrats with swagger telling us that "we've got this" scare the shit out of me

Under any other circumstances, I would have faith that our institutions and our constitution would provide us a clear path to the proper outcome. BUT: We have never before dealt with an entire political party scorching the earth and pissing on the founders like the GOP has since 2016. They are not working off the same set of "facts" that we are. They have 70+ million people in their corner. They don't give a shit. They just want control and are willing to sacrifice everything to retain it. Yes, we have more, but we're relying on the system to prevail. They're sabotaging the system so it won't. We simply cannot afford to be complacent.

[cab67]

22. I'm not very frightened....

...but only because the Trump team's efforts have been comically incompetent. That leads me to suspect anything else they would try to pull would be bungled to the point of being unintentionally funny.

But we must still be vigilant. The efforts may have been ham-handed so far, but they're ongoing, and way too many Trump supporters are well-armed.

[Salviati]

25. And even when they ultimately fail...

... that doesn't mean we're out of the woods long term. We've seen how many people are on board with an authoritarian not-so-crypto-fascist. It's inevitable that later on others are going to try again, and you better believe they've been taking notes about what mistakes not to make. We need to harden our systems against this sort of thing, and not just rely on people within the system to operate on good faith.

[Evolve Dammit]

27. Sedition. Help us Congress.

[Solly Mack]

33. K&R

[wnylib]

34. I remember watching C-Span in 2000,

as VP Gore presided over the submission of certified votes to the Senate. A few people called him President Gore instead of VP Gore. They brought up challenges to the outcome and Gore asked them if they had signed statements from a Senator, which was required to legitimize the challenge.

Now, picture Pence in that role, and the number of Senators who would eagerly sign anything to challenge Biden. I predict that this is what will happen when the states submit their certified votes. There will be several signed statements from Senators to challenge Biden. They will send it to the House for a vote. The House will confirm Trump because the R's will have the votes to do it. (The House vote is not based on a simple vote of representatives and the method used favors R's.)

Trump opponents will take to the streets when this happens. Trump will clamp down hard and viciously on protesters.