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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPardons for yourself, and others will not stand,
If a President is also involved with the crimes, I think, and trumps attempt to pardon his way out of going to jail will fail, I think. trump will have accountability for his crimes, like conspiring to commit election fraud. If not, we'll have criminals running for the position from now on.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,106 posts)the pardon itself.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)As unconstitutional.
jimfields33
(15,787 posts)Whoever trump pardons will be free from federal crimes. Pardoning himself may be the only question as its not directly stated in the constitution.
Response to jimfields33 (Reply #3)
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jimfields33
(15,787 posts)I still worry about juries though. We have to keep around 73 million off the jury for these trials. Not easy to do.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #8)
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PTWB
(4,131 posts)The only restriction is in cases of impeachment - a pardon cannot restore someone to their position when theyve been impeached and removed.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)the President cannot pardon himself,
From: https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download
It's an open legal question as the Supreme Court has not ruled on it, but I don't believe the framers of the Constitution intended to give a President the power to pardon his or her self.
PTWB
(4,131 posts)to allow the President to pardon himself, much of what was intended by the writers is completely at odds with the reality of the subsequent interpretations. We have a court full of self-proclaimed originalists and textualists (when it suits them). Theres absolutely no telling how theyd interpret the passage and the ancient DOJ opinion isnt worth the paper its printed on. It was crafted in another era with different rules and a different society.
I give Trump better than 50/50 odds that a self pardon holds. Its certainly not guaranteed but it isnt a pipe dream at all.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)Once pardoned they have no 5th amendment protection against being compelled to testify on the conspiracy. They can be compelled to testify and thrown in jail indefinitely on contempt charges if they don't. 5th amendment protections no longer apply because they can't incriminate themselves due to the pardon.
Prosecutors have used this tactic in mob and other large criminal conspiracies. Giving one person forced immunity even if they don't want it to remove 5th amendment protections to bring down the rest of the crime syndicate.
Solomon
(12,310 posts)case you can still plead the 5th.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)to pardon his co-conspirators.
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,784 posts)Trump has declared many a time that he is GUILTY of NOTHING. He will only be contradicting himself.
Response to ProudMNDemocrat (Reply #4)
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Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)without limitations.
Statistical
(19,264 posts)While untested it is very likely a self pardon will not stand. Also the President can only pardon people of federal crimes. Beyond that though the power is incredibly broad.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)Statistical
(19,264 posts)No rightwinger would ever vote for that.
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)He will probably pardon Pence before he resigns.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)allowing Pence to be President temporarily with power to pardon Trump.
From: https://www.justice.gov/file/20856/download
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)From Prof. Tribe and others https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-trump-cant-pardon-himself-the-constitution-tells-us-so/2017/07/21/f3445d74-6e49-11e7-b9e2-2056e768a7e5_story.html?utm_term=.a066d8b411f4
The Justice Department was right that guidance could be found in the enduring principles that no one can be both the judge and the defendant in the same matter, and that no one is above the law.
The Constitution specifically bars the president from using the pardon power to prevent his own impeachment and removal. It adds that any official removed through impeachment remains fully subject to criminal prosecution. That provision would make no sense if the president could pardon himself.
The pardon provision of the Constitution is there to enable the president to act essentially in the role of a judge of another persons criminal case, and to intervene on behalf of the defendant when the president determines that would be equitable. For example, the president might believe the courts made the wrong decision about someones guilt or about sentencing; President Barack Obama felt this way about excessive sentences for low-level drug offenses. Or the president might be impressed by the defendants subsequent conduct and, using powers far exceeding those of a parole board, might issue a pardon or commutation of sentence.....
President Trump thinks he can do a lot of things just because he is president. He says that the president can act as if he has no conflicts of interest. He says that he can fire the FBI director for any reason he wants (and he admitted to the most outrageous of reasons in interviews and in discussion with the Russian ambassador). In one sense, Trump is right he can do all of these things, although there will be legal repercussions if he does. Using official powers for corrupt purposes such as impeding or obstructing an investigation can constitute a crime.
But there is one thing we know that Trump cannot do without being a first in all of human history. He cannot pardon himself.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)SCOTUS, I think he will be allowed to do so.
diva77
(7,640 posts)way
spanone
(135,830 posts)diva77
(7,640 posts)Arne
(2,012 posts)is that this president Has been impeached.
That should play in some how.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Arne
(2,012 posts)I just thought he was Not Removed.