I finally talked myself into watching the 4th and final episode of "The Reagans"

[Solly Mack]

docu-series on Showtime. I've watched all four parts just not on the nights they first aired. I needed to prepare myself.

Yes, I still hate that fucker that much.

If you haven't seen it yet, do.

If you were aware during the Reagan years, you'll relive every sickening moment and the intense disdain you told yourself you had made peace with will come rushing back, bubbling over like a lava flow of contempt.

If you weren't - you'll learn something you probably didn't know.

I found Ron Jr's commentary annoying but then I guess I can make allowances for his being their child. If only because I don't know how he really feels or how he struggles, if he struggles, with those feelings.

My own father was well respected, well known, and a piece of shit. I make no such allowances for myself.

Anyway - if you get the chance to watch the program, do so.

I think you'll notice the many, many similarities between then and now.


Thanks! (for reading)

[elleng]

1. Have avoided it.

MAY now watch, after your suggestion, Solly Mack.

[Solly Mack]

2. Have a comfort mug of hot cider or hot chocolate handy.

If you're like me, you'll see the old familiar faces and snarl at the television.

[herding cats]

3. I have it in it's entirety on DVR to watch at some point.

I was a child when he was elected and an an older teen when he was termed out.

I'll be made angry, but my anger wasn't of the levels fiery hell back then I feel now as an aware adult at Trump. For me studying Reagan is a way to learn about the history which led us to this point.

[Solly Mack]

5. You'll enjoy it then. Enjoy it as a frame of historical reference, that is.

You'll note how the two, Reagan and Trump, both demagogues, feeding their followers on feel-good myths and lies about America. Both playing to their audience.

Reagan was smoother in delivery but no less delusional.

You'll see Reagan blurting out a secret to a national audience and then trying to take it back. And you'll hear his version of alternative facts when he tells how though the facts and evidence prove otherwise, his heart tells him that he wasn't trading weapons for hostages. (He was)

You'll get to see a young Dr. Fauci. (HIV/AIDS)

Lots more.

[Upthevibe]

4. Solly Mack - Over the Thanksgiving Weekend I had some free cable

channels. Showtime was one of them. I was able to see three of the four episodes of the Reagan mini-series. During most of the 80's, I was in my 20's and wasn't paying that much attention to world events. It wasn't until I moved from TX to CA in 1988 in the middle of the AIDS crisis that I discovered how horrible the Reagan Administration was.

When I arrived in CA, I ended up volunteering and worked on the AIDS hotline. That's when I realized that Reagan did NOTHING about this horrible situation. I know that the final episode in the mini-series brings some focus on his negligence regarding AIDS. I'll try to catch the last episode when I can.

[Solly Mack]

6. The 4th episode does get into Reagan's negligence re: HIV/AIDS

And many other things.

Hope you get to watch it soon.

Reagan was an actor, not a very good one, acting in the role of President - and not a very good one.

I see those who liked Reagan as no different than those who like Trump.

[PatSeg]

15. Republicans could never find a charismatic leader

like John Kennedy or Franklin Roosevelt, so they did the next best thing, hire an actor to play a charismatic leader. Like everything republicans do, it was all fake.

The kicker is after Reagan left office, they gradually transformed him into some kind of mythological hero. The Ronald Reagan that republicans politicians like to glorify today bears little resemblance to the man we witnessed in the White House for eight long years. Its all just a fairy tale.

[Solly Mack]

16. Those ideations of Reagan's sainthood became hereditary along lateral lines.

Adult children of parents who worshiped Reagan grew up to tell me that Reagan was the best President ever. Never mind that some of them weren't even born until after Reagan was out of office.

They now feel the same way about Trump.

It's mind boggling.

Still, children are growing up now who will believe Trump was the most incredible president ever.

[PatSeg]

32. But at least Reagan did play a decent president

on television. It was mostly an act, but not a terrible one. Trump is a terrible actor, an inarticulate speaker, has no impulse control, and the camera hates him. They will have to do a whole lot of rewriting and photo-shopping to pass him off as a great president down the road. I think such a myth would be hard to sustain for very long.

Of course, there will always be die-hards, but I don't think the right can ever spin Trump the way they did Reagan.

[Solly Mack]

34. I think the standards for a shared narrative of delusions have lowered.

Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2020, 02:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Reagan always said "us" even as he didn't mean ALL of "us". But the "us" that he did mean came together.

Trump speaks in terms of me, myself, and I - Alone.

I think maybe the me, myself, and I is the new standard. Just not in the same way Trump means it. Trump means only he can fix everything but his followers hear that they were right to feel that it was them against the world - and Trump can fix it.

Different degrees of ego between the two but still each with an ego that needed/needs feeding in excessive amounts.

[PatSeg]

35. Yes and I think Trump is much needier

than Reagan ever was. Maybe Reagan saw the world and his presidency as a Hollywood style movie and of course, he was the heroic president who saved democracy. I think there is plenty of evidence that he had a hard time distinguishing between reality and fantasy.

On the other hand, Trump has needs that will never be fulfilled, because he is such a dangerously damaged human being. He sold a bill of goods to a bunch of suckers, but he doesn't have the discipline, imagination, or intelligence to sustain it. He keeps repeating the same patterns over and over again, and when things don't go his way he becomes careless and impulsively reactive. Throughout his life, he destroys everything he builds. I think he is programmed that way.

[Solly Mack]

36. I agree.

I remember the times Reagan would be speaking and then recall some event - that came direct from a movie - of some point he was wanting to illustrate. While listening you realized he believed the event actually happened.


They both concerned themselves with the optics.

Trump scripting his actions , words, and scenery to the 30 minutes or 1 hour TV reality show. Dramatic conflicts and cliff-hangar included.

Reagan with his aw-shucks, homespun grandiloquent, larger than life, majestic, sure to be Oscar winning, masterpiece oratory. Painting a picture of red, white, and blue splashed across of field of happy, smiling faces. Hands over their hearts, singing the Star Spangled Banner, while American soldiers marched in perfect unison down the lane.

[PatSeg]

37. Oh yes, just like a 1940s movie ending

I think as his dementia progressed, he really did have trouble distinguishing between reality and the movies in his mind. He spent an awful lot of time watching old movies when he was in the White House and seemed to genuinely believe that his "Star Wars" plan was feasible.

[hlthe2b]

7. I have only watched the first episode. Actually, I thought Ron was forthcoming and acknowledging

of both Reagan's entire "made-up" life story he used to propel his political future and his not even thinly veiled racism that he used to advance and take over the party. Ron obviously does not hate his father, but I've always thought he was "clear-eyed" about him in adulthood.

BTW, Patti Reagan (also Reagan's biological child, in addition to Ron and the late Maureen) appeared in the series too.

I thought the series (what I've seen so far) aptly brought Trump comparisons to mind as well. Based (solely again on the first episode), I don't get the feeling this is any "whitewash" for Reagan at all.

[Solly Mack]

9. I didn't feel like it was a whitewash either.

Yes, I saw the other children. Ron, to me, did use some words of mitigation though yes, he freely admitted about the made-up life stories and other things about his parents.

I wasn't mad at Ron Jr. , just annoyed a few times when he says, "I don't want to say Dad was..." (whatever it applied to at that moment) when his Dad was so clearly just that.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

8. No way would I watch anything about that demented fascist pig

spawn of Hitler that laid the foundation for the destruction of our country.

[Solly Mack]

10. OK

[hunter]

11. Ronald Reagan was a U.S. American example of the banality of evil.

Whatever hell Nazis go to, that fucking meat puppet is in it.

I don't understand people who think Reagan was some kind of saint, no more than I understand Trump voters.

We don't have cable or satellite in our house, no Showtime, but even if the docu-series rolls around to Netflix I'm not sure I could stomach it.

[Solly Mack]

12. He truly was an example of the BoE.

I made myself watch. Simply because I don't want to forget. Too many people are too willing to forget about so many things. I had to do other - pleasant - stuff after watching to reduce the sick I felt all over again.


I don't really see any major differences between Reagan supporters and Trump supporters.


Now, a huge difference between the people around Reagan and those around Trump - but mainly that boils down to one group being more capable/slick and the other group being incompetent/obvious, but all of them still thugs. Still all willing to lie, cheat, and undermine our democracy. A bumpy ride as opposed to a smooth one - all on the same path.

[Cosmocat]

13. He put an affable, smiling face to hatred, racism and fascism

he did a lot of damage in helping so many channel that kind of approach, to convince themselves of how good they were as a person while having believes and taking actions that were negative toward others.

[Solly Mack]

14. Yes he did.

Exactly so.

[peggysue2]

18. Haven't watched the fourth installment yet

But I found the limited series interesting, a good reminder that Donald Trump didn't burst out of a briar patch brand new.

Saint Ronnie was able to package basically the same ideology in more attractive wrappings. But the dog whistling was there, the libertarian 'we don't need no stinking regulations' messaging/policy to comfort corporate interests while breaking the back of unions was at the forefront, and most certainly the attacks on government itself were constant, deliberate.

The whole idea of drowning government in a bathtub, churning distrust of Washington and convincing Americans to vote against their own self-interest was given breath by Reagan and his backers. Because of those people--the shirkers, the Welfare Queens, the chronic whiners, communist sympathizers, etc..

Reagan's wealthy backers, the so-called Kitchen Cabinet, just loved their Ronnie because he was affable, an attractive, down-home front guy for toxic policy. Though Melania is no Nancy Reagan (the power behind the man), I took note of the similarity of slogans:

Be Best vs Just Say No.

The simplistic, useless sentiment is on the same bandwidth. Nancy's penchant for extravagant goods--the addition of $1000 per setting White House china--isn't that far removed from Melania's new tennis courts/pavilion or her need to uproot Jackie Kennedy's rose garden.

But that's my take. I caught Morning Joe yesterday. He and his Republican guests were appalled by the series, called it the worst documentary they'd seen, a political hit job.

All in the angle you view it, I guess.

[Solly Mack]

20. Excellent summary!

If people pushed/supported those harmful policies and thinking, they would think the show a hit job. Like Joe.

[peggysue2]

24. My reaction exactly, Solly Mack

It's all okay if you can push the ideology in an underhanded, attractive manner. Donald Trump is a embarrassing oaf. That's what Scarborough and his friends detest.

But bring in a Ronnie clone? All will be right again.

[Solly Mack]

25. True. They would be OK with Trump if only he had been subtle and used the usual RW code words

instead of simply laying it all out there for the world to see. No room for plausible deniability. No wiggle room that scripted ambiguity allows.

It's not the anti-democratic, anti-government push, or abuses of office, and assorted other crimes they mind - it's the packaging.

[mnhtnbb]

21. Joe is a dyed in the wool Republican. Still reveres St. Ronnie. Not to be trusted.

[mnhtnbb]

19. I happened to see Jane Fonda refer to the series as about time the truth was told about Reagan

so I've watched it, too. Didn't intend to.

Yes, I lived through Reagan as Governor in California. His signature was on my BS from UCLA in 1973. I grew up with Republican parents and my mom had a photo of him hanging in her kitchen. I could hardly stand going home from the time I left for college until my husband and I moved from California in 1988.

My second husband was a psychiatrist. He saw--firsthand--the result of community mental health changes that resulted from Reagan years when they closed the psychiatric hospitals claiming how wonderful it was going to be having so many people cared for on an outpatient basis in community clinics. Only the clinics weren't funded. Hello, BIG increase in the population of homeless.

My first husband's father was a cameraman in Hollywood. One of his best friends was a very well known agent who--at one time--represented Reagan during his early career. So, of course, knew him quite well personally. One time we had gotten together for dinner with my in-laws and their friends (agent and his wife) and the talk turned to Reagan. This was in the mid '70's after his term of Governor. The former agent had nothing flattering to say about Reagan, particularly his level of intelligence. He was an actor. He played the role of Governor. And later he played the role of President.

And yes, we've had another sometime TV type celebrity--not even a B movie actor--playing the part of President for the last four years while hoping to upgrade his role and billing to dictator.

Reagan was personable, which IMO, led to much of his success. Trump is just an asshole, which is the main reason he hasn't achieved his goal of demolishing democracy. Both of them were not smart people. Both of them were fronting the well heeled organization of extremely wealthy individuals and corporations that want to turn the US into an oligarchy, preferably a theocratic one with the help of right wing evangelical phony Christians.

We've dodged a bullet for now with the election of Biden/Harris. But the forces that put Reagan and Trump into office are not going away. It remains to be seen what happens next.

[Solly Mack]

22. I agree. What happens next...

Because we won some breathing room but we didn't win the battle. I don't think we ever win the battle. We have to constantly fight against the thinking that makes government the enemy and all that entails.

With effort, and a little luck, we might increase the numbers against those toxic ideas.

[jalan48]

26. He was the Acting President. It became apparent to me that powerful forces behind him were

actually running the government.

[Solly Mack]

27. Reagan was a true believer in the toxic BS he spouted and supported.

He believed in trickle down, the welfare queen myth, drowning government in the bathtub, deregulation, profits over people - more.

And all in support of the delusional ideas he held about America.

Sure, he was surrounded by some truly scary thugs but Reagan was on board. He gets no quarter from me.

He was definitely a figurehead for the Conservative movement, but he wasn't just a figurehead. He was a full-fledged member.

Anyone can be manipulated and he was - but he was willing...until he was incapable of stringing two thoughts together. Then they covered for him and others did the job.

[jalan48]

28. I agree. I remember being in a constant state of rage during the Reagan years. American's didn't

understand what he was doing. He fired the air traffic controllers and got away with it and it only got worse for unions after that. He did believe in what he was doing but he had been saying the same thing for decades. He was giving the same anti-Communist/Socialist (sound familiar?) speech since the 50's when he was the public spokesman for General Electric. He made powerful corporate friends giving those speeches, and like Trump he was the perfect front man sell those ideas to the country.

[Solly Mack]

29. Oh, yeah. The parallels are there to trip over.

Going back to the 1950's is a fantasy of Conservatives. Back to white blinders in an America that never existed except in their heads.

The true "safe spaces" of white people, where they didn't have to see or hear about everyone else. Where the only Americans that mattered to them lived.

Boot-strap delusions of grandeur.

[jalan48]

30. Yep, I grew up near some Indian reservations and it was like they didn't exist. They didn't fit

Last edited Tue Dec 8, 2020, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

in the model of the Leave it to Beaver world we were living in.

[Solly Mack]

31. I was the child of a single mother, raised in the inner city -

then we moved to foothills and I got my first dose of culture shock.

I never adapted to the new environment. Haven't been back in decades.

The differences in thinking, in what was important were stark. Survival/navigating the two environs was based on vastly different elements.

My second dose of culture shock was when I came back to the states from Germany after almost a decade.

Oddly enough, never once experienced culture shock while living in Germany or traveling about Europe.

[jalan48]

33. It's difficult if not impossible for people to understand what minority groups go through in

this country. Unless a person has faced the daily discrimination there's no way to really get it. For most of white America I think it's like going on vacation to a third world country. You get exposed to a new culture just a little and then you go back home thankful you don't have to live there.