I think I just pissed off my new dentist's office.

[AirmensMom]

Last edited Fri Dec 11, 2020, 10:39 AM - Edit history (1)

They called from a phone number that is not the listed one and wanted my social security number. I told them I'd be glad to give them my insurance ID numbers but no social security number over the phone. Then they said forget it, they'll get it all when I come in.

I'm nervous now. They didn't say to wear a mask or stay in the car until called. And they didn't ask if I needed pre-treatment meds.

My dentist of almost 15 years died last year and his widow had been unsuccessful at finding another dentist to work there. Otherwise, I wouldn't be switching.

This whole thing has me going nuts over how scary the simplest things are.


Update:
I talked with my husband and we decided to cancel our appointments. Now the search continues. I found a dentist who is recommended by my old dentist's widow. He only takes one of our plans, but the other plan will still pay some out of network. There are not many dentists who take both, so we were really spoiled. The one we cancelled takes both. But at what price? Offices like that are why we can't get COVID under control.

[hlthe2b]

1. Do they have a website that outlines their COVID-19 protection policies? I'd check

Also read the yelp (or other) reviews if you haven't.

[AirmensMom]

15. A website?

Surely you jest. The only use people around here have for computers is to post their conspiracy theories on FB.

I did read some google review and they were mixed.

[hlthe2b]

17. I have no idea where you are. Frankly, even the smallest dentist, veterinary, general health care

office has at least a minimal online presence where I am and that includes small communities outside Denver.

BTW, no way would I give them a SS number. If they insist give them the last four digits which CAN be used along with your name and address for searching relevant databases for health care purposes.

[AirmensMom]

19. I'm sorry.

I have an attitude about this place and I didn't mean to sound snarky to you. I'm in eastern TN.

There is no online presence with most of the dentist here, except for the fancy ones who don't take anyone's insurance.

Thanks for the info. I've been getting a lot of phone calls claiming to be from the social security office, which I know is a scam. I'm very protective about my social security number and won't put it on another form.

[CurtEastPoint]

2. I would give them a chance and nix it if (1) no masks and (2) they insist on SSN. I had one doc

do that and it caused such a hubbub that a patient would refuse to give a SSN.

[AirmensMom]

39. It's not just the SSN.

The fact that they have no COVID protocols in place AT ALL is scary as shit. So, no, I'm not going.

[RobinA]

46. How Do You Know

they have no COVID rules in place? Around here they post all that stuff on the door. I haven't had a doctor's office actually tell me that stuff since summer. It seems like if you have a shortage of dentists you ought to give them a chance before you dump them.

[NoRoadUntravelled]

3. I've called new providers and cancelled appointments when I discovered they weren't taking

proper precautions re: mask wearing, etc.
Call and speak to the receptionist and ask her to outline their procedures for keeping themselves and their patients save during this pandemic. If you're not comfortable with the answer cancel your appointment.
Also, you are not required by law to give them your social security number. I always leave that part of the form blank. They don't need it. One of the reasons Medicare no longer uses social security numbers as an identifier is due to fraud.

[AirmensMom]

16. They have no procedures.

That part was clear. And it's the reason we can't get this nightmare over with.

I did not know I wasn't required to give my social security number. Why do they still ask for it?

[NurseJackie]

24. Make up something. They don't need it.

Flip the middle two digits. Flip the last two digits. They'll never know the difference.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

4. I think you were the victim of an attempted scam. n/t

[OLDMDDEM]

13. I agree

[obamanut2012]

22. I agree

[AirmensMom]

26. I called them back.

Well, I called the number I had for that dentist, not the number they called from. They were the ones who called. But I won't be going there or calling them ever again.

[Cicada]

5. My wife's dentist said she won't get vaccinated, needs more proof of safety

The dentist’s assistant chimed in, incorrectly, that the vaccine used fetal cells in its production. I guess that is a deal killer for her. Looking for a new dentist.

[hlthe2b]

8. Idiot. She is confusing the monoclonal antibody development with vaccine. NOT THE SAME

[Peacetrain]

9. Precisely.. the thing that the privileged around Trump are getting to fend off the virus

[Ms. Toad]

37. At least some of the vaccines use fetal cell lines.

At least five of the candidate COVID-19 vaccines use one of two human fetal cell lines: HEK-293, a kidney cell line widely used in research and industry that comes from a fetus aborted in about 1972; and PER.C6, a proprietary cell line owned by Janssen, a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson, developed from retinal cells from an 18-week-old fetus aborted in 1985. Both cell lines were developed in the lab of molecular biologist Alex van der Eb at Leiden University. Two of the five vaccines have entered human trials (see table, below).

The fifth vaccine, which has shown promise in monkeys and is headed for human trials as soon as this summer, is what is known as a protein subunit vaccine. Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh use HEK-293 cells to manufacture the coronavirus’ spike protein—a vital part of its structure—which is used to trigger an immune response. The vaccine is delivered through a skin patch with 400 tiny needles.

The fetal cell lines are key to producing both types of vaccine. “HEK-293 [cells] are essential for making protein subunit vaccines,” says Andrea Gambotto, a vaccine scientist at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine and the vaccine’s lead developer. Their human origin is important, he says: “Cultured [nonhuman] animal cells can produce the same proteins, but they would be decorated with different sugar molecules, which—in the case of vaccines—runs the risk of failing to evoke a robust and specific immune response.” (Among the developers of the five vaccines, only Gambotto responded to a request for comment.)

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/abortion-opponents-protest-covid-19-vaccines-use-fetal-cells

[hlthe2b]

50. mRNA vaccines were being discussed as they are furthest alone so, NO. THEY are not remotely

produced with fetal cell lines, but you believe what you wish. Yes, testing older method, traditional vaccines in cell line cultures is routine, but it does not apply to the mRNA vaccines. That said, defending these insane anti-choicers at the expense of saving millions of people is not something I feel kindly about engaging with. I believe in Science, Public Health and saving lives.

[Ms. Toad]

53. Whether you believe that the use of fetal cell lines matters or not

is irrelevant. You're entitled to your own opinions - as are the idiots who won't use a vaccine because it used fetal cell lines in its development.

You are not entitled to your own facts.

As a matter of fact, fetal cell lines are used in in the development many of the vaccines. Nothing in your original statement limited your assertion to mRNA vaccines. I've linked to an article from a reputable source that confirms the use of fetal cells in teh development of many of the vaccines. Their use is remote, but the vaccines would not exist without the use of the fetal cell lines.

Facts matter, and correcting factual misstatements is not defending a political position that relies on those facts.

[hlthe2b]

55. I stated that they are in TRADITIONAL vaccine development. NOT in mRNA. YOU ARE NOT

entitled to YOUR own facts.. Nor are you entitled to misrepresent what I posted.

[Ms. Toad]

57. This is the sub-thread I responded to.

Post to which you responded

5. My wife's dentist said she won't get vaccinated, needs more proof of safety

The dentist’s assistant chimed in, incorrectly, that the vaccine used fetal cells in its production. I guess that is a deal killer for her. Looking for a new dentist.

Your response:

Idiot. She is confusing the monoclonal antibody development with vaccine. NOT THE SAME

I don't see a limitation in the post to which you responded suggesting the dentist was ONLY discussing mRNA vaccines (as you LATER suggest was the case), nor do I see the word traditional in your response, to which I responded.)

Correcting factual misinformation is completely unrelated to taking a position on vaccination. The starting point is a common body of facts. It is only after the facts are clear that it is even possible to have an informed discussion about the political/moral consequence of those facts.

[hlthe2b]

58. I'm not taking your abuse nor bait. Welcome to ignore

Your misrepresentations of what others post have become commonplace and thus I'm done giving you attention.

[Ms. Toad]

60. I quoted you directly, and exactly,

and provided the post to which you responded for context - since you later claimed the conversation was limited to mRNA vaccines, when it was not.

Here is the first thing I said in this thread in this post

All I did was to make a neutral statement that some vaccines do use fetal cells, quote an article proving the point, and provide a link.

I think any fair reading of the posts that follow my neutral, factual, response make it clear that nothing I said was abusive or baiting - an, in fact, were a pretty restrained response to the accusations you made against me.

[Chin music]

10. But dead Americans are ok everyday?

Ones who lived entire lifetimes paying taxes and supporting our country?
Here we go w the standard pro life bullshit from these people.
Science saves lives. Some stem cells etc come from frickin umbilical cords. For the love of gods.
Sorry...we aren't just in a new admin...we are in a whole new world. tr&mp broke everything and for the right to act like we are going back to general order re rules/policy positions etc etc. AND SCIENCE, they are kidding themselves.
We outnumber them. A majority...even by one vote...is a majority. That's what they'd say. And they do.
Fuck their feelings was a t-shirt much bally hoo'd by the right wing....I say, DITTO.
PS..Used to care about even the misguided on the right, but they broke that too.

[MaryMagdaline]

6. It's up to them to make you comfortable

Both on the issue of securing your SS and other personal information and in Covid safety measures.

I hope you find someone who puts patients first.

[AirmensMom]

40. Thanks.

I'm looking.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. A Question Based On Agreeing With You

Why would the dentist's office need the SSN?
The insurer has it. Last 4 numbers should suffice. If they need that. I know I never gave that info to our dentist.
If someone has an insurance card, and the last 4 match in the insurer's computer, why would the dentist need the first five numbers?
This amplifies the concerns you raised. They asked for info they don't even need.

[MaryMagdaline]

49. So they can sue you if you do not pay your bill?

It is actually normal for a doctor or dentist to have a full SS for ID purposes. I don't have any problem with that.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Apparently Not Here

We've had to give the last 4 a couple times, but our dentist has never asked, and we both use the same GP, and not there either.
That's why I asked.
We've never had to give a doctor/DDS that information so I honestly didn't get it.
When she had surgery, we gave it to the hospital. But, I guess I thought that completely different circumstances.

[Peacetrain]

7. My son had to spend 10 days in quarantine after a dental visit

turned out someone who worked there and who had been in close contact with him had tested positive for the virus.. so trust your instincts would be my advice.. I mean I would have all kinds of alarms going off too..

[AirmensMom]

41. OMG That's horrible!

I assume your son didn't get infected? Hoping he didn't.

Yes, alarms all over the place.

[Peacetrain]

61. No he did not get infected..but he still had to quarantine

sigh.. he was not a happy camper

[madaboutharry]

12. I would go to a different dentist.

What you described is very unprofessional.

Ask friends, neighbors, or co-workers for the name of their dentist. Your primary care doctor may be able to give you a referral.

[AirmensMom]

31. The one I preferred wasn't available

until February and that wouldn't even include the cleaning.

I'm overdue because of COVID and because I didn't know that my old dentist's widow had closed the office and cancelled my December appointment. I found that out quite accidentally just a few weeks ago.

Most of the dentists around here won't take both of our plans. But the preferred one does. Now I have a toothache so I'm worried because dental issues can affect my knee replacements. One of my friends says that dentist is the best around. The reason I can't get in is because he's so good. And everyone there wears masks and gowns. Patients are asked to leave if they come in without being called. I'm going to try to get in to see them, even if it's just to get on the list for cancellations.

I'm exhausted from all of this. I don't know how I ever got any real stuff done.

[madaboutharry]

33. I know it must be frustrating.

It is a good idea to get on a waiting list for the dentist you want.

I hope it works out for you.

[safeinOhio]

14. Bad dentist are not any cheaper than good ones.

I’d fire em in a minute.

[AirmensMom]

43. He was recommended.

My husband went to a different dentist to get a crown glued on, but that one wasn't on our plans. So I told him we have to find someone who is. That dentist where he went recommended this one. But there's a world of difference in their behavior and how seriously they take a pandemic.

[Hortensis]

18. That's what we would have done. Just have to stay safe some months longer. nt

[AirmensMom]

44. Might have to do that.

I'd be ok with it if I didn't have a toothache ... likely caused from clenching my teeth because I'm so stressed out. But I'd like to be sure.

[Hortensis]

48. Oh! Yes, that does make a difference. I JUST went out and

established with 2 new specialists due to a serious problem developing. So I went out into the holocaust and am now waiting to be assured I didn't bring anything home.

Occurs to me that, since you don't know if you have to have care now, maybe you could set an appointment you could cancel if home options relieved it while you were waiting.

[AngryOldDem]

20. If you're that concerned...

Can you maybe call the state licensing or medical board to get more info on this dentist? Or just to report your experience?

It’s odd they’re not taking even the simplest precautions. My daughter had her wisdom teeth pulled this summer, and both times we were there (for consult and procedure) we had to call to be let in, had our temps taken, and were asked the usual health questions. On the day of the procedure, we couldn’t even stay in the waiting room. I waited in my car.

I’m paranoid too anymore about sharing any kind of info. If I piss people off, I really don’t care.

[AirmensMom]

21. I'm in TN.

This state generally doesn't take it seriously. I posted last week about another appointment I went to where people were wearing their masks under theirs noses or chins and basically taking few precautions. Sure, I could call and report to someone, but it wouldn't matter. Even the medical professionals think it's a hoax.

Most dentists offices around here are closed on Fridays, so I can't even call another one to see what precautions they're taking. It's so frustrating.

[AngryOldDem]

25. Wow.

Don’t blame you at all for your concerns.

This is exactly why we need national protocols, especially for health care providers not directly involved with COVID. This has never been seriously treated as a public health emergency. More like “do what you want.”

[obamanut2012]

23. I doubt it was your actual dentist's office calling

It sounds like a complete scam to me. Did you call the office back and ask to speak to the office manager/dental nurse and see if they called? This has classic scam on it, either external or someone associated with the office culling info to scam.

I refuse to give anyone except HR or a governmental agency my SSN -- I even refused to give it to my apt. complex, ATT, and my electric company. Most places have ways to have you not give it. Too much ID theft. You do NOT have to give anyone your SSN, even on a job application.

[AirmensMom]

27. Yes, I called back.

Frequently the medical offices here (and maybe everywhere?) call from a phone number that is not the one listed. But I still won't give them any info until I call back at the regular number.

I probably would have put my social security number on paperwork they gave me to fill out. But now I know I don't have to, thanks to DU!

[obamanut2012]

28. Good luck with your new doc!

[UTUSN]

29. Under the COVID circumstances, *any* dental is potentially scary.

[AirmensMom]

35. You are right.

All the more reason to make sure they're taking plenty of precautions.

[LeftInTX]

30. Dental insurance isn't really "insurance" anyway

It seems to be more of a discount.

A good dentist can provide discounts for procedures not covered by dental insurance

[AirmensMom]

32. I pay nothing.

One of my plans is through Medicare and the other one is through my husband's work. They each offer checkups and cleanings twice per year. And they both have a generous allowance for crowns and such. I haven't had a copay for quite some time.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get in to see someone soon. A big problem is that they all seem to be closed on Fridays, when shit seems to prefer to hit the fan.

[Ms. Toad]

38. The most common dental insurance

covers preventative care at 100% and 50-70% for most other things. (I've had the same plan offered by the same provider by at least 4 jobs from 1978 to present)

It's sas much insurance as a medical insurance plan is.

[LeftInTX]

45. That's what my plans are

But if you have major work, they will quote you 2 different rates.

Medical can save you millions of dollars. And there is a cap on out of pocket.

Full dental restorations are about $30,000. All of my molars are crowns now. It took them years to convince me to do it and I finally went along with it when my fillings started to fall out. (It was time) 50-70% really isn't much. And the dental insurance had the lowest reimbursement for crowns. I saved money on fillings, but the expensive stuff was still expensive.

I remember in the 90s, I had to pay like $800 for a crown, despite having insurance. I had an old crown that fell out. I think without insurance it would have been a little over $1,000 and it really didn't offset our annual premiums. We dropped dental insurance for about 10 years and picked it up again when we figured we would need it again.

One insurance refused to pay for my son's routine orthodontics, despite the fact that the plan covered it. They put us through so many hoops, that I had to go through the state board of insurance and the thing dragged on for years. I could not believe what they put us through. It was really bad.

Because my son was having so much trouble, I didn't bother to file when I had a retainer made for myself by the same orthodontist. It cost me about $1,000 including all visits etc.

[Ms. Toad]

51. You are aware that full medical coverage, with a cap on out of pocket

is a very recent phenomenon, right?

Dental was not pulled under the ACA - so it still operates on the old insurance model. That doesn't make it not insurance - it just means it is not regulated in the way the the ACA has regulated insurance for the past decade or so.

[LeftInTX]

52. We've had medical caps since the late 80's

We may have had maximum out of pocket in 1986, with my first born, but it was like $25,000.

A few years later with a PPO the maximum out of pocket went down to $3,000 per individual.

[Ms. Toad]

54. You were lucky, then.

Many people did not until after the ACA.

[PCIntern]

34. I'm a dentist, as many of you know here:

In the old days, SS number was required. Insurance companies are not using them anymore with the possible exception of MetLife, and there are ways around that.

Any dentist who doesn’t get vaccinated is risking catastrophe IMO. I am getting vaccinated the first minute it is available to me.

It’s all very tricky these days. I wish you well

PC

[AirmensMom]

36. Hey! I was hoping you'd chime in.

I totally agree about getting vaccinated. Meanwhile, they should at least be taking some precautions, not just, "well, if you want to wear a mask, you can."

How are you handling things pre-vaccination?

[PCIntern]

47. Full PPE And

air purifiers, social distancing, double mask for me and gown and head covering and room cleansing and no waiting room as it were.

And more....

[AirmensMom]

63. That's what they're doing

at the place I'm trying to get into now ... and might have to wait until March for an appointment. He's on my plans and supposedly the best dentist in town, which is why he's hard to get an appointment with. I just hope I can get squeezed in on a cancellation for a quick check for my toothache.

[LAS14]

56. I have a different take on this from most of the thread.

1 - They seemed to be OK with your reluctance to give your SOC SEC.

2 - Why would they arrange to call you in your car if you have an appointment for a specific time?

3 - None of our medical providers (eye, dentist, dermatologist, hearing) mentioned COVID precautions at the time of making an appointment, although all required masks to enter the office, as explained on a sign. We live in MA, where mask wearing is pretty universal... at least in the Boston area, so I wouldn't expect extra mention of it.

If you can't find a dentist that takes both of your plans, I'd give this place another try.

[AirmensMom]

62. Interesting.

However,

1) They should not be asking for my SSN over the phone.

2) Most medical offices do not open their waiting rooms now. They want you to sit in your car, call to tell them you're there, and wait for them to call you in. It's to avoid contact with other patients. This is how my optometrist is doing it and how my old dentist office did it.

3) This was not at the time of making the appointment. I had an appointment for coming Monday. They were calling to confirm my appointment, I guess, but started with the SSN request.

I live in TN where mask wearing is mandated in some counties but largely ignored anyway. Cases are growing very fast in my county.

I appreciate your take on it, but I will not give this place another try when they are doing nothing to keep from spreading this horrible disease.