Can A Virus Mutate Itself Out Of Existence?...

[global1]

Just asking?

[Tanuki]

1. I wish Trump would!

[redwitch]

2. It would be nice if Covid AND Trump family did this. nt

[LeftInTX]

3. Sorta...it can weaken into something that our bodies can easily fight off, like a cold or mild flu

[mitch96]

21. I'm figuring that's what the 1918 flu did... just mutated to the point that our immune system

could fight it....
m

[BarackTheVote]

26. One of the contemporary seasonal flu varients

is a descendent of the Spanish Flu.

[The Blue Flower]

4. What's the evolutionary benefit in killing your host?

Something I've always wondered about both viruses and cancers.

[Hugin]

8. A virus only multiplies...

As long as replication and spread occur at a self sustaining rate the ultimate condition of the hosts doesn't matter to the equation.

So, fight the virus by not becoming a host.

[global1]

9. Interesting Question - What Happens To Covid-19 When A Person....

dies from it? Does it die within this person?

Are humans its only food so to speak? Can a synthetic host be created where covid-19 can attack and die?

[raccoon]

11. I've always wondered that about rabies. Nt

[mrs_p]

15. Viruses often have a reservoir host

That doesn’t succumb to disease. It’s the reason why we will always have certain pathogens despite our best eradication efforts.

[3Hotdogs]

5. I guess the question would be, Why did the 1918 Spanish Flu

wear itself out?

Would 'rona do the same if just left alone? (No Martha, I'm not suggesting this).

[panader0]

10. I watched the CNN show about the 1918 Flu and it seemed to suggest that

that is what happened. The virus mutated to a less powerful strain, and gradually faded.

[BarackTheVote]

27. It's still around to this day

just not as deadly for a variety of reasons.

[Stardust]

31. More information about the 1918 Flu...

There’s an interesting documentary on YouTube —Deadliest Plague of the 20th Century: Spanish Flu Of 1918

&list=PL1Xms62gcNBwpptkhELEXdgE8CaOjLQC2&index=9&t=0s

[Hugin]

6. Theoretically, yes.

I don't think you want to hear the most likely ways for such a thing to happen, though.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

7. I know it's science but...

I guess it’s being worked on this is from 2008

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081110154034.htm

It sounds like a science fiction movie: A killer contagion threatens the Earth, but scientists save the day with a designer drug that forces the virus to mutate itself out of existence. The killer disease? Still a fiction. The drug? It could become a reality thanks to a new study by Rice University bioengineers.

The study, which is available online and slated for publication in the journal Physical Review E, offers the most comprehensive mathematical analysis to date of the mechanisms that drive evolution in viruses and bacteria. Rather than focusing solely on random genetic mutations, as past analyses have, the study predicts exactly how evolution is affected by the exchange of entire genes and sets of genes.

From 2019...

https://www.hhmi.org/news/the-flu-viruss-ability-to-mutate-may-sometimes-be-its-downfall

One of influenza virus’s main weapons is actually a double-edged sword.

The virus’s ability to rapidly mutate lets it escape from the immune system’s memory and explains why people can be repeatedly re-infected with flu – unlike measles or polio. But those mutations can also blow the virus’s cover, Howard Hughes Medical Institute Investigator Jesse Bloom and colleagues reported May 8, 2019, in the Journal of Virology.

“We usually think of the flu virus’s ability to mutate and evolve as a bad thing for us,” Bloom says. It lets the virus jump from one species to another and evade the defenses provided by the flu vaccine. But, he says, “mutating has a downside for the virus, too.”

[handmade34]

12. my non-scientific thought...

mutation usually happens in order to survive, not to self-destruct

but I suppose there are good educated answers out there

[Hugin]

14. Mutations are random...

Via natural selection (AKA evolution) the resultant attributes of the mutation either promote the survival of the mutant (in the case of a virus by enhancing it's ability to spread) or by being unsuccessful (less ability to replicate and spread).

The trouble with this being, the pre-mutated strain is still present in the system and unless the mutant out competes it, the original strain soon overwhelms the mutant.

You are correct with your statement, but, survival is selected for from outside pressures. The self-destructing mutations are still there all the time and only result in evolutionary misfires of a few individuals who soon die out when put under pressure.

[BarackTheVote]

28. But it's important to note that

“out-compete” in this context doesn’t mean “kill as many people as possible.” Viruses need a host to survive and replicate. A virus doesn’t “want” to kill its host because the longer it gets to be around, the more it can replicate and spread. If it kills the host, that’s a dead-end for it; that more deadly strain will eventually burn out because it won’t have any hosts to infect. It’s the less deadly strains that will ultimately be around longer and therefore outcompete rival more deadly strains.

Pathogens that have humans as their primary host are relatively benign—seasonal flu, the cold, etc. The reason why zoonotic diseases like Rabies, Ebola, Malaria, etc, are so dangerous is because we’re NOT its preferred host; it gets into us almost by accident and burns through us because it’s adapted to handle the immune system of the animals that serve as its reservoir—faster metabolisms, tailored-immune systems, higher body temperatures, etc.

[Sgent]

34. Umm

Smallpox and Polio are not relatively benign and only exist(ed) in human hosts. Also something like y pestis (plague) can kill 1/3 of the population before burning itself out.

[mitch96]

23. "mutation usually happens in order to survive, not to self-destruct "

It seems thats what cancer does.. It kills it's host.. Yes I know cancer is not a virus, just say'in...
m

[mrs_p]

13. Yes. It happens all the time.

Depending on the virus, mutations frequently occur with changes in the genome that make it unable to infect a cell or replicate or leave a cell to go on to infect another cell. This happens all the time and we call them viral strains. But the opposite it true, too, as we see with the virus associated with COVID. Mutations can render a virus better equips to infect a cell or replicate or exit a cell.

[exboyfil]

16. A mutated virus that isn't as lethal as its pregenator

has a competitive advantage which is how I think viruses become less lethal to their hosts. The less lethal a virus, the less steps a "herd" takes to prevent transmission. Pretty soon the opportunities to pass it on are diminished as more and more are infected and develop a resistance.

When you deal with a virus with a 1% mortality rate and incalculable medical and long term health impacts, you don't want to do that. Just ask Sweden (and the US).

[LuvNewcastle]

19. Also, as with the flu, if the less lethal virus can mutate fairly often,

it can make the virus hard to tamp down. We have different strains of the flu that afflict us every year, so they adjust the vaccine accordingly.

[kirkuchiyo]

17. I don't think it can mutate itself out of existence.

But certain mutations could affect its ability to transmit itself. One, if a mutation made it less likely to infect others it could die out without infecting enough people to survive. I doubt this would happen as evolutionary pressures just don't work that way.

Any mutation that increases it infection rate will be selected for in that that particular strain will become more widespread. The other option I see is that it becomes much more deadly. In which case it would kill off its host much quicker and not allow for as widespread of transmission. But obviously we don't want that either.

So yay vaccines, can't wait to get one, wish we would stop all flights from the UK but we won't cause trump.

[nuxvomica]

18. Only if it's limited to a host species that dies out

More likely it would mutate into a form that coexists better with the host, possibly even becoming a beneficial virus. Another way it could die out is that it's basic genetic structure exists long enough to be targeted and eliminated by other rapidly mutating viruses, bacteria or fungi. There's an epic battle ongoing at the microscopic level.

[Klaralven]

24. The host species need not die out completely. Just become sparse enough to reduce R0 to less than 1.

[nuxvomica]

29. Good point and a reminder how masking and distancing work

By doing both we are simulating a species with widely separated individuals.

[beachbumbob]

20. Spanish flu did

[Demsrule86]

22. The 1918 flu disappeared and they had to

Go to the Arctic to find find virus infected frozen tissue for DNA sequencing. There was some preserved lung tissue but not enough. The virus was gone. But Covid is like the cold... doubt it will happen.

[quaker bill]

25. a virus is not so much a single thing

as it is trillions or quadrillions of things each independent of the others. A viral particle may mutate, but they do not talk to each other and all mutate in the same direction. Now if one mutates and because of the mutation propogates more efficiently, it may come to replace previous strains for the larger part. The prior variants will likely continue to exist. So not so much...

[BannonsLiver]

30. My advice: if you want the real answer seek out verified experts in their field.

There is a lot of material on the web on this subject from actual scientists, rather than those who think they are on an anonymous Internet forum.

[Blue_true]

33. A lot of information on the Web is skewed. Better for the person to ask his or her Doctor,

and if that Doctor doesn’t know the answer, the Doctor can ask around.

The question is a good question, so it surely has been asked and answered numerous times.

[Blue_true]

32. I believe there have been cases where it has gone both ways.

Viruses survive long term by either infecting new hosts, or becoming less problematic for a host.

[usajumpedtheshark]

35. Laurie Garrett wrote an excellent book, The Coming Plague, which provides a large amount of

Last edited Wed Dec 23, 2020, 04:39 AM - Edit history (1)

information about viruses and other emerging threats. One theme in this book was the decline of public health system and she expanded on that theme in her later book, Betrayl of Trust. Both books are an easy read but also include citations and references for those who want to dig deeper into these topics.

Sorry! I didn't mean that to soundso much like an advertisement

[ansible]

36. I'd be more worried about the bioweapon research that's going on now

2020 just showed the whole world how devastating a pandemic is to the global economy. Now imagine something just as infectious as covid but with ebola's death rate. Probably cheaper to make than a nuclear weapon.