What Kind of Sex Do Real Men Have?

[MineralMan]

Here's my definition of the kind of sex real men have:

Real men have completely consensual sex when they have sex with a partner.
Solo sex, since one is always a consensual number.

Real men don't have:

Coercive sex of any kind.
Sex with people who are temporarily unable to make a good decision.
Sex with people who are otherwise unable to make a good decision.
Unprotected sex with casual partners.
Commercial sex, because prostitutes are not completely consensual partners.
Sex with under-aged partners as adults.
Sex that has to be wheedled out of an otherwise unwilling partner.
Fraudulent sex, where false assurances are made.
Secret sex when they have a life partner or are married.
Sex where consent is obtained through power, as in sex with a person they are supervising.
Sex with partners who have consulted with them on a professional basis about personal problems.
In academic situations, sex with students of theirs.

As always, this is just my opinion...

[MineralMan]

1. Real Women, too, of course.

[seabeyond]

2. no one wants to touch this with a ten foot poll, lol lol

and ya, meant the pun

i am so damn funny. tell boys all the time. they just dont see it.

and yes, i get what you are saying and know it is your opinion. good job.

[MineralMan]

3. I think there may be a few replies, eventually. Thanks!

[seabeyond]

8. and then sometimes

i am pleasantly surprised.

[WingDinger]

4. Toward that end, I think Women should take half of the responsibility for first encounters, and woo

wooing. Of course, men should take half of contraception too, but women could not trust them.

Spend five minutes observing nature, and it is apparent why there is so much confusion and cluelessness.

Nature makes males ACT, to gain the females attention. Women choose amongst those suitors. A male cannot

reliably determine whether a female will be impressed, or repulsed by his display. Leading to charges of unwanted advances.

Those that do command the attention of a female have acted in ways that would get a less suitable mate incarcerated.

So, the simplest way to impliment that list, is to implore women to take on more responsibility than does nature in general.

[seabeyond]

6. Women choose amongst those suitors.

patriarchy fucked everything up. now women are performing for me.

but i agree. women need to take as much responsibility. hard in a culture that conditions the opposite.

[WingDinger]

73. I wish you would start a thread on how patriarchy got women to compete so vociferously aganst each o

other.

[WingDinger]

78. Perhaps, it is to make women do some displaying. Otherwise, like in nature

men are the colorful ones.

[MineralMan]

9. Well, in my experience, women do woo, too.

At least half of my sexual experiences have not been initiated by me.

As for your other points, they have nothing to do with my list. Human beings act voluntarily with regard to sex, or should.

[WingDinger]

14. You must have quite a display. Judging from those huge tweety feet.

[MineralMan]

18. I'm told it's my eyes and smile that do the trick.

But, who knows. It could be my feet, I suppose.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

56. I'd just like to explode the myth

about big feet.

personal experience; an ex from long ago.

[RadiationTherapy]

21. I am with you MM. I too have been "initiated upon", as it were. Many times.

It had little to do with "displays" and more to do with what I actually did with my life. When I lived a dull, predictable life, I didn't get laid too often. When I went out and lived adventures and took risks and made stories worth telling, then I got laid. Easy-Peasy.

[redqueen]

29. I never went for exciting or adventurous.

Well, outside of one year, ahem.

Anyway, I like nice. Nice, kind, thoughtful, considerate. Those were the kind of guys that got my serious attention.

[WingDinger]

34. So, you like a nice, kind, thoughtful, considerate display.

[redqueen]

37. No. "Display" = feathers, dancing, etc.

Character traits are not "display". They are part of who a person is. They define us as people.

If there's anything those traits 'display' it is values. Pretending that people are no different from animals is a massive logic fail. Biologically, we are animals. We have these huge brains, though, see...

[WingDinger]

42. Personaliity, and character traits, are largely what has WORKED for you.

Your behaviours, mostly are the repetition of those displays that have gained you positive attention on average.

Starting when you were a baby. Just like animals. How you perceive yourself , is the reflection others give you.

Your display, is the sum total of these lessons, reflected in your persona.

[redqueen]

43. Oh lord.

[KansDem]

83. What happened to "good sense of humor?"

I thought "good sense of humor" was always high on the list...

[redqueen]

86. Too cliché.

Everyone likes that.

[RadiationTherapy]

84. Oh, I am nice, kind, thoughtful considerate and adventurous and edgy and exciting.

[WingDinger]

87. I'm sorry, I logged into Eharmony by mistake.

[RadiationTherapy]

89. If you need any tips thinking outside of your box, lemme know.

Hint: It doesn't include listing your favorite TV shows or why you love living in the same place you were born and raised in. hahahaha

[WingDinger]

31. I dont think you are cognizant of what constitutes a display.

The trapppings of your lifestyle ARE part of your display.

[RadiationTherapy]

85. I don't think you are cognizant of what I wrote. ALL personas/identities are displays.

[RadiationTherapy]

13. This all seems very old fashioned and a bit whiny.

First, it isn't only women and men who have sex. There are a lot of possibilities between bio-sex, gender performances, sex preferences, etc. Second, all people who pursue sex, act. Third, all personas and identities are acts based on perceived rewards and punishments by various groups upon individuals which shapes these performances.

[WingDinger]

17. Fighting nature, instead of redirecting it, is a fools errand.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. I am not fighting nature. I understand the act of pursuing and the act of attracting.

I just don't see what bio-sex or gender performance has to do with it.

[WingDinger]

27. here.

http://animal.discovery.com/

[RadiationTherapy]

30. No thanks. If "humans are just like animals" is as subtle and as granular as

your thinking goes on this topic, let's just conserve our energy, shall we?

[WingDinger]

36. Maybe this is more your speed.

http://www.amazon.com/Prophet-Kahlil-Gibran/dp/0394404289

[MineralMan]

49. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

Can you explain?

[WingDinger]

59. Kahlil Gibran talks about sublimating desires.

And how they find a way of displaying themselves, often in worse ways than those you intend to curb.

Buddhism, talks about when hungry, eat. When tired, sleep.

Crushing nature has unintended consequences. Like war, when not enough females exist, in a region for mates.

[redqueen]

67. Sleep and food are not 'desires', they are needs. Sex is not a need.

Release is a need, which can be met using masturbation.

Having access to another person's body for sexual release is. not. a. need.

[WingDinger]

75. You WISH that were true.

Tell a teenage boy that. Tell a rethug that masturbation is not sex.

[redqueen]

77. Their perceptions do not change facts. (nt)

[WingDinger]

79. Nor do yours, or anyones.

[MineralMan]

19. Yes. I deliberately did not specify any partner's gender in my list.

[redqueen]

28. I agree with this very strongly.

I always make the first move. (Well, I did, before I found my love.

[WingDinger]

45. I will use my hitch hiking analogy.

When I used to hitch hike, I would choose who would give me a ride. NEVER would I accept a ride from anyone that stopped for me, without my telling them to.

those that stop for hitchers, can have any number of negative motivations for doing so.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

63. interesting idea here!

Well explained, too.

Definitely worth thinking about.


Because we have animal instincts, but are, in the end, human, we DO have the ability to make decisions about out behavior. Everything goes better when we wisely make decisions rather than have them made for us. (whether by force or by our own abdication, which leads circumstances to decide for us.)

[WingDinger]

101. Civilized culture, is selecting for those wise decisions.

And enforcing against those we want to deselect.

[hlthe2b]

5. K&R

Always nice to see men who are secure enough in their masculinity that they don't need to resort to the kind of demeaning and derisional talk, "jokes," or flippant attitude towards sex. I know they are the majority among DUers- but, unfortunately, not always the ones we most often hear from

[MineralMan]

10. Thanks. I thought it was time to hear from at least one.

I know I'm not alone in this approach.

[RadiationTherapy]

7. I reject the moniker "Real Man", but I am an advocate of Enthusiastic sex.

If you have to convince, cajole, bribe, drug, or assault, then you are doing it wrong. If you "get lucky" you are doing it wrong. Enthusiastically given and received, please. Thanks.

[MineralMan]

11. "Real Men" was deliberately chosen.

It's not a term I normally use. It seemed appropriate here, somehow.

[RadiationTherapy]

16. Yes, but living up to the notion of a "Real" anything is an artificial construct leading to

oppression of the self and others. I understand the tone of DU right now makes your use of the term more ironic, but there is much in your list that simply applies to healthy sexual encounters for all people.

[Fawke Em]

93. I don't see any healthy sexual encounters in his list.

Sure, you can be enthusiastic. It wouldn't be fun, otherwise, but healthy sex is consensual sex that is not harming someone else.

[MinervaX]

12. What exaclty is an "Unreal" man?

This?

[url=http://spongebob.wikia.com/index.php?title=SpongeBob_SquarePants_(character)&image=SpongeBob_SquarePants-svg][img][/img][/url]

[seabeyond]

20. people who use sponge bob as an example?

i jest....

[MineralMan]

22. I think that's a good example, for sure.

Does Sponge Bob even have sex? That's a frightening concept.

[emulatorloo]

32. Depends on whether or not you are "sponge-worthy"

[redqueen]

38. Hah, nice one.

[emulatorloo]

64. One of my favorite episodes!

[TheKentuckian]

92. That is ROLF-worthy and thank you!

[MinervaX]

35. I guess they do

"Most species use sexual reproduction, releasing sperm cells into the water to fertilize ova that in some species are released and in others are retained by the "mother". The fertilized eggs form larvae which swim off in search of places to settle. Sponges are known for regenerating from fragments that are broken off, although this only works if the fragments include the right types of cells"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponge

[MineralMan]

60. Kind of impersonal, it seems to me.

I think I prefer being human.

[Lance_Boyle]

51. Rule 34

applies to (quite literally) everything, no matter how disturbing.

[LeftinOH]

15. Well that doesn't leave very much --as far as some men are concerned.

Actually, quite a lot of men would be "out in the cold" if they weren't able to resort to at least one or two items on that list. Worldwide, that is. Consider the parts of the world where rampant prostitution, rape 'culture', and child brides are the norm.

[MineralMan]

24. The solo option is always available.

However, I've been a lot of places in the world, and in all of them, I've seen people who have found willing partners.

[MineralMan]

40. Wow! Stereotype much?

"So many gays from Cuba?" WTF?

Romance does not equal sex. Romance is something entirely different, although it sometimes includes sexual activity.

[WingDinger]

52. Yes, the women wouldnt give the native males the time of day.

[MineralMan]

58. I must say, "What a crock!"

I'm willing to bet you can't corroborate this in any way.

[WingDinger]

61. The stats bear this out.

How else to explain how a relatively constant demographic{ratio of heteros} can change drastically, in a few years?

[MineralMan]

68. What stats? Link, please.

Show me the stats and their source.

[WingDinger]

76. I have studied this in sociology many years ago. I will search.

It may be later brought up in a thread, If I gain the courage. Liberals dont like those that tell them that is how nature is.

[MineralMan]

90. Good luck with that. I did some searching myself, and found demographic

data that differ from what you said. If you find something, please let me know.

[WingDinger]

94. Unfotunately, the bulk of my education occured pre-internet. and hasnt been popularized for the inte

internet.

[MineralMan]

99. Well, if what you said about Cuban men is

true, there will be information about it on the internet. I maintain that Cuban men are not gay in any larger fraction of the population than anywhere else. You're the one who claimed they are, so it's up to you to provide evidence of that. I do not believe that you can provide any such evidence.

Your sociology studies in the pre-internet days nonwithstanding. So, either there are data or there are not. If the data exist, surely they would be interesting enough to appear on the internet.

[uppityperson]

110. I realize you are blocked from replying here, but are you really saying that Cuban women

have sex with American men who pay them, so Cuban men have no choice but to be gay?

Have you the slightest inkling what sexual orientation means?

[redqueen]

44. So if a man can't find a partner, he turns gay?

Seriously?

[WingDinger]

47. How do you think prison sex works?

and you dont TURN gay, you adapt to the possibilities. Often reverting to your proclivities, after your environment changes.

Are you aware that, In Mexico proper, the girls are devoutly Catholic, and do not engage in premarital sex. Thus, many, MANY boys perform what WE would consider homosexual acts? As long as you are the DOeeee, and not the Do to, you retain your masculinity, and your heterosexual status?

And yes, I have checked this with many Mexican males. And yes, some of them admitted to non homosexual male to male sex.

[MineralMan]

55. Prison sex is coercive sex, based on power.

It has nothing to do with being gay or heterosexual, in most cases.

In any case, what makes you think that Cubans have a higher percentage of gay men? That, my friend, sounds bogus to me. Can you produce some information to corroborate?

[WingDinger]

81. Always coercive?

[MineralMan]

88. Nothing is always anything.

Prison sex is overwhelmingly coercive. Are there cases where it is not? I suppose so, but that's not the norm, by any means.

Here is an excellent resource on the issue, if you have the time:

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/

If you do not, try this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_States

[Spazito]

48. Whoa...

and

This whole post is appalling, imo.

[WingDinger]

50. Only if sociology is appalling.

Nature is not how you would LIKE it to work.

[Spazito]

57. Your post shows a lack of understanding of sociology among other things...

if you can't see that, I can't help you.

[eShirl]

102. "Nature is not how you would LIKE it to work. "

Right back at you.

[WingDinger]

105. YES

[Gold Metal Flake]

25. Agreed.

For me, sex is not about wielding power. For me, sex is about sharing power. You give, you get. Now, exactly what that means, in terms of details, is the possible subject of a possible future Lounge thread where some adults with impulse control might exchange hints and tips in a way that will not get the thread locked.

I am all about collaboration and learning. I eagerly take to suggestion and direction. What pleases my partner pleases me.

Now, is there any way we could have a future discussion from this standpoint? One that starts out assuming both partners share complete respect, care, compassion, equality and a desire to be kind to one another (and no kids in the house or pets to intrude or places to be or fatigue or knocks at the door or phone calls of unwanted facial hair)?

[Whisp]

33. whatever anyone says, rape is not sex

and that should be evident but apparently it is not and I'm not going to 'splain anything more to some of the Quest for Fire imbeciles here

[redqueen]

39. "Quest for fire imbeciles"

Seriously... first belly laugh of the day... thank you.

[Whisp]

46. I'm sure I'm getting alerted on that

because gosh darn I may have hurt the sensitive Ron Perlemans here.

[redqueen]

71. Ha,

but... Ron Perlman is nice though.

[Whisp]

95. I'm sure he is a nice guy but

even nice guys act like Neandrathals sometimes.

[MineralMan]

41. LOL! on the Quest for Fire stuff.

[Odin2005]

53. K&R

[msanthrope]

54. Well said, MM. As always, you are a gentleman, in the truest sense of the word. nt

[MineralMan]

62. That's kind of you to say.

Sadly, I'm not always a gentleman. Sometimes I am rude, which I regret after the fact. I try not to do that, but...

[redqueen]

69. You're human...

you can't 'always' be anything but human.

IMO you are always a gentleman, because after you've acted in an uncivil manner, you do regret it. I'd like to think I do the same.

[bvar22]

65. Dear MM,

I applaud you for posting these values,
and AFIC, they can be pinned to the top of the page.



I am profoundly grateful to have known a few "Real Men" in my life time.
In my experience, not a single one of them would ever claim to be a "Real Man",
not privately, but especially not in a public venue.
Instead, when given the opportunity to speak publicly,
they would talk about their shortcomings, and failures to live up to the codes that define "Real Men."
To the man, they would exclude themselves from the group called "Real Men".
THAT is one of the values that MADE them "Real men."

The same is true of "Heroes".
No "Real hero" would EVER claim to be one.
Instead, they would discount their acts, and focus on their fears and difficulties.

My personal favorite is "Humility".
As soon as someone claims "Humility" as one of their virtues,
they lose it!

There IS a paradox here.
You might want to take a look at it when claiming to belong to that group you describe as "Real Men."



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green][center]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[MineralMan]

72. I claimed nothing.

Thanks for your reply.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

66. Well said MineralMan

very good post, indeed.

Thank you!

[ddeclue]

70. HIghly infrequent?

[MineralMan]

74. No, that wouldn't be on the list at all.

And so, it wasn't.

[SomethingFishy]

80. While I agree with the sentiments expressed...

IMHO "Real Men" don't feel the need to express how great they are. They allow themselves to be judged by what they do not what they say.

But like I said, that's just my opinion.

[MineralMan]

91. You're right. That's why I didn't

self-identify as that. Have a nice day.

[BiggJawn]

82. Masturbation.

It's the only way to be sure you're not taking advantage of or raping somebody else.
And even then, only after you sit down and have a long, heart-felt talk with yourself to be sure you really want to fap yourself off.

Oh, I forget, it makes Jeebus cry and Gawd kill kittens.

[jeff47]

98. I admit to spending a few minutes trying to figure out how coercive masturbation would work. (nt)

[Yavin4]

96. What About Men Who Are Disabled?

And sex with a prostitute is the only intimacy that they can get. Are they not real men?

[WingDinger]

107. What about men who are not selected? For WHATEVER REASON?

No problem. Sex is not a NEED. Just a thing you get if you are good.

[uppityperson]

112. WTF? Why would being disabled prevent you from having sex with someone other than prostitute?

I don't understand the connection between being disabled and prostitution.

As OP said, prostitution is not entirely consensual, so that goes for anyone using them, not just disabled.


Disabled men, even those quite disabled, are capable of sex with non-prostitutes.

Please clarify what you meant here.

[Yavin4]

113. I Know of A Severely Disabled Man

and the only intimacy that he can get is with a prostitute. What more do you need to know?

[uppityperson]

121. What can a prostitute do that a non-prostitute can not do?

I know non-disabled men and the only intimacy they can get is with a prostitute.

I know of nothing a prostitute can do that a non-prostitute can not do. If a man is unable of having a relationship with someone, it goes far beyond being disabled or not.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

97. Wouldn't it help to define "real man" before eliciting opinions about what makes one?

[MineralMan]

100. "Real Men" is just a figure of speech.

It is being used in that sense. Have a nice day.

It's used all the time in that sense. It's a commonplace. See the link below:

http://bit.ly/xzk3sQ

[WingDinger]

104. Dont you think this Thread is a little like right wing pledges of abstinence, by preteens?

[MineralMan]

108. Uh, no, I don't.

It's a list of attributes. Nothing is pledged, and no pledge is demanded. How about those gay men in Cuba. Did you find anything to support your contention that there were more Cuban gay men than elsewhere? I'm still waiting.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

106. it's used in all sorts of contexts, including the refusal to eat quiche

When you said "real men", you actually meant the idealized standard of what a man should be. Now I understand, no link needed.

Thank you.

[MineralMan]

109. Yup, that was it.

[tjwash]

103. lulz....thread of the day!

[Kellerfeller]

111. "... people who are otherwise unable to make a good decision. "

That excludes much of the US population

[MineralMan]

114. No, it does not.

It means people who are developmentally disabled and do not have the intellectual capacity to make such decisions. It's very simple.

[Kellerfeller]

115. Sigh

That was supposed to be a joke.

[MineralMan]

116. OK. It got a serious answer, anyway.

It happens. I'm in a serious mood today, for some reason.

[Kellerfeller]

117. No problem

I need to learn how to use emoticons and the sarcasm tag.

[Canuckistanian]

118. And what kind of sex do true Scotsmen have?

Just wondering.

[DavidDvorkin]

119. Ha!

[MineralMan]

120. As one such True Scotsman™

I'm pleased to report: Very satisfactory sex, thank you very much.

[Canuckistanian]

122. Ach, yer a lucky maun!

[Prophet 451]

123. Devil's advocate here

I have a couple of hypotheticals that I'd be interested to hear your reasoning on.
Firstly, when you say "people who are temporarily unable to make a good decision", I presume you mean those who are drunk/stoned. Now, presuming both partners are drunk/stoned, you seem to be placing all the onus on the man to make a sensible decision and none of the woman.

Secondly, with regard to "Sex with under-aged partners as adults", please define "adult". What I'm thinking of is the situation (which I know I did and I'm sure many others did as well) where both partners are of a similar age but one is slightly over the age of consent and the other is slightly under. For example, the 18-yr old guy having sex with his six-months-underage girl/boyfriend.

[justiceischeap]

124. The question we'll never get honestly answered...

How many men have had either of these types of 'sex' in their lifetime (which isn't sex at all Mineral Man--not trying to hijack your very positive post but thought I should at least point out that the acts below aren't sex but rape):

Sex with people who are temporarily unable to make a good decision.
Sex with people who are otherwise unable to make a good decision.

[Froward69]

125. No Worries Mineral man

I say that stuff too when I am desperate to get laid.

Adapt, evolve or Die-out, Darwin would agree... Real men have a Penis, after that it is all window dressing and placating an angry Woman..