Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 10:18 AM Jan 2021

Giuliani associate told ex-CIA officer a Trump pardon would 'cost $2m' - report

An associate of Rudy Giuliani told a former CIA officer a presidential pardon was “going to cost $2m”, the New York Times reported on Sunday in the latest bombshell to break across the last, chaotic days of Donald Trump’s presidency.

The report detailed widespread and in some cases lucrative lobbying involving people seeking a pardon as Trump’s time in office winds down. The 45th president, impeached twice, will leave power on Wednesday with the inauguration of Joe Biden.

The former CIA officer John Kiriakou, who was jailed in 2012 for leaking the identity of an operative involved in torture, told the Times he laughed at the remark from the associate of Giuliani, the former New York mayor who as Trump’s personal attorney is reportedly a possible pardon recipient himself.

“Two million bucks – are you out of your mind?” Kiriakou reportedly said. “Even if I had two million bucks, I wouldn’t spend it to recover a $700,000 pension.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/17/rudy-giuliani-associate-john-kiriakou-trump-pardon?__twitter_impression=true

5 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Giuliani associate told ex-CIA officer a Trump pardon would 'cost $2m' - report (Original Post) JonLP24 Jan 2021 OP
Can't federal prosecutors tap that money and take it away? no_hypocrisy Jan 2021 #1
There is nothing in the constitution preventing selling pardons. Kablooie Jan 2021 #2
Perhaps the Domestic Emoluments Clause of the Constitution. TheBlackAdder Jan 2021 #3
It doesn't have to be in the constitution to be illegal. MoonchildCA Jan 2021 #4
KnR Hekate Jan 2021 #5

no_hypocrisy

(46,119 posts)
1. Can't federal prosecutors tap that money and take it away?
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 10:20 AM
Jan 2021

Or would it be hard to find those assets if they were offshore?

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
2. There is nothing in the constitution preventing selling pardons.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 10:52 AM
Jan 2021

So technically it's not illegal.
Just immoral.

TheBlackAdder

(28,208 posts)
3. Perhaps the Domestic Emoluments Clause of the Constitution.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 11:30 AM
Jan 2021

.

"The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”


The meaning of the word “emolument” is contested in litigation challenging Trump’s alleged violations of both the foreign and the domestic clause. But most dictionaries from the era of the US’s founding define the word broadly. John Mikhail, a Georgetown law professor, looked at 40 different dictionaries published between 1604 and 1804 to try to determine how the word was understood at the time of the Constitution’s framing. He found that 37 of those 40 dictionaries give it a meaning that “would encompass sort of the profits of ordinary market transactions.”

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/22/20925403/emoluments-clause-trump-g7-resort-impeachment-businesses



Let's see how a Right Wing site describes this:

Compensation
Article II, Section 1, Clause 7

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

This clause accomplishes two things: it establishes that the president is to receive a “compensation” that is unalterable during the period “for which he shall have been elected,” and it prohibits him within that period from receiving “any other emolument” from either the federal government or the states.

The proposition that the president was to receive a fixed compensation for his service in office seems to have been derived from the Massachusetts constitution of 1780, which served as a model for the Framers in other respects as well. The Constitutional Convention hardly debated the issue, except to reject, politely but decisively, the elderly Benjamin Franklin’s proposal that the president should receive no monetary compensation. Perhaps the Framers feared that if Franklin’s proposal were accepted, only persons of great wealth would accept presidential office.

As Alexander Hamilton explained in The Federalist No. 73, the primary purpose of requiring that the president’s compensation be fixed in advance of his service was to fortify the independence of the presidency, and thus to reinforce the larger constitutional design of separation of powers. “The legislature, with a discretionary power over the salary and emoluments of the Chief Magistrate, could render him as obsequious to their will as they might think proper to make him. They might in most cases either reduce him by famine, or tempt him by largesses, to surrender at discretion his judgment to their inclinations.” For similar separation of powers reasons, Article III, Section 1, provides that federal judges “shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation,” although that provision only forbids Congress from diminishing the judges’ compensation, not from increasing it. The distinction, as Hamilton noted in The Federalist No. 79, “probably arose from the difference in the duration of the respective offices.”
.
.
The meaning of the Compensation Clause also arose in the context of President Richard M. Nixon’s papers. As authorized by the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974, the government had taken or seized President Nixon’s papers after he had left office. President Nixon (succeeded by his estate) sued for compensation for the taking of what he alleged to be his property under the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment. The government argued that the Compensation Clause precluded payment of compensation on the theory that the presidential materials were the product of President Nixon’s exercise of powers conferred on him by the United States, and that therefore he could not sell them for his personal profit, even after his presidency, without impermissibly receiving an “Emolument” over and above the fixed compensation to which he was entitled. The district court rejected the government’s argument, relying in part on a prior appellate determination that President Nixon was the owner of the materials in question. It found that President Nixon’s entitlement to just compensation had vested when the government took his property (i.e., after he had left office), and therefore that “the plain language of the Emoluments Clause would not be violated because Mr. Nixon would receive compensation subsequent to the expiration of his term of office.” The government argued that such a finding necessarily implied that a sitting president could sell his papers for profit during his tenure of office—to which the court demurred that “those are not the facts in this case.” The court also found, however, that the papers “were not transferred to [President Nixon] by the government as compensation for his service in office,” perhaps implying that a president could indeed sell his papers during his term. Griffin v. United States (1995). Under the Presidential Records Act of 1978, however, presidents no longer have title to their papers, 44 U.S.C. § 2202, and so cannot sell them, thus obviating the issue of whether such sales would be emoluments.

https://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/2/essays/84/compensation



Nixon was trying to profit from his papers after he left office. He probably would not have been able to do so in office.

It kind of looks like it's illegal: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/doj-investigating-potential-white-house-bribery-pardon-scheme-n1249609

.

MoonchildCA

(1,301 posts)
4. It doesn't have to be in the constitution to be illegal.
Sun Jan 17, 2021, 11:31 AM
Jan 2021

At the very least, it’s bribery, which is illegal, and there may be other charges involved.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Giuliani associate told e...