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Fri Jan 29, 2021, 07:46 AM

Auto makers going electric - so why Keystone Pipeline again?

GM announced on Jan 28, and most of the world's car makers are all setting a target of 2030 for all-electric vehicles.
GM, VW, BMW, Ford, Chrysler-Fiat, Honda, Nissan, Peugeot have all announced an 'all-electric' goal. Most cars have smaller and smaller engine options. Any hybrid car has more horsepower and torque than a fuel-only based counterpart.
The fastest cars are electric only, or electric-assisted.

Once professional transportation, ie: the trucking industry, switches to all-electric, it becomes less clear as to what this pipeline is going to be providing. An 18-wheeled semi will use those non-driving wheels to keep recharging it's batteries. Almost all electrics use the braking systems for a recharging supplement. Batteries are getting better, 500 mile 'tank range' is common. Apple makes the longest lived phone batteries and has enough cash-on-hand to purchase GM & Ford outright.

Does TransCanada or the American Petroleum groups have any information on the electric cars affect on it's long term business plan or won't it 'go there'?

Why do we need the Keystone XL pipeline again?


Gasoline consumption will decrease annually as more electric cars are produced. This will also increase the price of gasoline & diesel fueled vehicles as they loose the models that will continue to use gasoline & diesel. This is simple business 101.

Many GOPs are screaming about 10,000 jobs with the pipeline. None have provided any actual proof for that 10,000 number.
Are there any professional studies or surveys, that support that 10K number over the next decade?
Are we really going to need that many grocery shopping bags?

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Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply Auto makers going electric - so why Keystone Pipeline again? (Original post)
SmartVoter22 Jan 2021 OP
Fullduplexxx Jan 2021 #1
Klaralven Jan 2021 #3
Fullduplexxx Jan 2021 #4
Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #17
WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2021 #2
SmartVoter22 Feb 2021 #25
Liberal In Texas Jan 2021 #5
2naSalit Jan 2021 #6
SmartVoter22 Jan 2021 #10
former9thward Jan 2021 #7
Progressive Jones Jan 2021 #8
former9thward Jan 2021 #9
Progressive Jones Jan 2021 #13
former9thward Jan 2021 #19
Progressive Jones Jan 2021 #20
msongs Jan 2021 #23
former9thward Jan 2021 #24
Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #16
former9thward Jan 2021 #21
SmartVoter22 Jan 2021 #11
Ron Green Jan 2021 #12
Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #15
scrabblequeen40 Jan 2021 #18
Demsrule86 Jan 2021 #14
Dem2 Jan 2021 #22

Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 07:47 AM

1. I thought the pipeline was canceled

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Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 08:03 AM

3. It's dead. The Canadians are expanding the Trans Mountain Pipeline to the ports in BC.

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 08:04 AM

4. Thank you

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Response to Klaralven (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 01:55 PM

17. Good. It benefits Canada (not really corrupt if you ask me) somewhat but us not at all.

Why should we take the risk?

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 07:50 AM

2. Petroleum products go far beyond motor oil and gasoline.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 2, 2021, 06:04 AM

25. We've run out of oil?

I keep reading about all these fracking sites shutting down, because of a glut of US oil, and the price is too low.

So, back to what do we need the Keystone oil for anyway, if we aren't needing the same crap oil we have here, which is closer to any shipping ports.

It's like ordering ice for your drinks from Switzerland, instead of your kitchen sink.

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 08:24 AM

5. That dirty crude isn't even for US consumption. It was going to be schlepped down to Houston and

shipped to China.



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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 09:37 AM

6. THIS!

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Response to Liberal In Texas (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 10:34 AM

10. Ok, this sounds practical.

Instead of making a pipeline, why not design and build oil tankers that can fit in the St Lawrence Seaway?
The Canadian sludge can then be kept, entirely in Canada, and sent out via boats, which is what they'd wind up doing from Texas.
or not sell China any oil, let them find it elsewhere. Oh wait, they're going electric too.

This pipeline is making less and less sense everyday.

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 10:00 AM

7. Consumers do not like electric vehicles.

That is why the auto companies said "goal' rather than reality. GM said it was "an aspiration" -- whatever that means. BTW they said 2035 in GM's case not 2030. The 2030 was a goal to power their car factories.

Electric vehicles only sell because of heavy subsidies from the federal and in some cases state governments. Even with those subsidies they are very expensive.

Keystone was for transporting oil not gas. Think you don't need oil? Most of what you typed your post on is made of oil products.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 10:10 AM

8. Well, yeah, old guys who still buy Buicks don't

want electric cars, but my daughter who will begin driving in two years does. So do her friends.

They are the future. They are the ones who will be buying vehicles in the future.
They are who matters.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #8)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 10:28 AM

9. When they find out their i-phones and laptops and ear buds are made of oil products

will they still want to get rid of oil?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 01:44 PM

13. I was arguing with your assertion that people don't want electric vehicles.

The trucking industry, for one, is very interested.

What we have now is not the future.

As far as plastics go, yeah, they're petroleum products.
We'll still be doing better by eventually ending the fuel aspect of petroleum.
Nobody is clamoring for "Not One More Drop Of Oil" !!!.

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Response to Progressive Jones (Reply #13)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 02:41 PM

19. I don't know if you are listening to them.

There are plenty of people demand all "green" energy now. AOC for one. Shut down anything oil related. Their posts appear on this site all the time. Interestingly they also do not want the cleanest and safest energy of all -- nuclear. Because they saw some Hollywood movie.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 02:47 PM

20. I wouldn't discount what they desire. I agree with them, but probably not on the time line. nt

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Response to former9thward (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 03:23 PM

23. chernobyl is a monument to the "cleanest and safest energy of all..." nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 06:33 PM

24. So you go by Russian standards?

Ok, I don't. Yes, the industry is the cleanest and safest for a mass population. If you want to use a paper fan to cool yourself go for it. But it won't work for 330 million people.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 01:53 PM

16. In WWII products that used oil were made from other substances...the same will happen here.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #16)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 02:48 PM

21. Well when you invent that you will be a billionaire

Congrats. And we did not have a shortage of oil in WW II. We supplied our own needs and that of the allies. Our shortage was in rubber which came from Japanese controlled areas. Gas ration stamps were used not to control gas but to minimize the use of rubber in tires.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/339#:~:text=Now%2C%20it%20cannot%20be%20stated,of%20oil%20from%20the%20U.%20S.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 10:58 AM

11. Consumers do like electric cars.

Electrics are the fastest growing sector of all vehicles.
That automobile sector should reach $1Trillion is sales by 2024-5.

The cost of the cars is not the issue for consumers, it's that there is not a universal charging infrastrutcure globally.
A battery can be charged using any current method. Battery technology for cars is very close to phone & computer batteries; in how they are made and how they can be charged.
There is too much money to be made in charging infrastructure to avoid it, for some generalization claim it's 'bad'.

It is estimated that in 2024, electric cars will be more profitable for car makers than gas/diesel cars.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/oct/21/electric-cars-as-cheap-to-manufacture-as-regular-models-by-2024

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Response to former9thward (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 12:12 PM

12. My wife and I haven't bought gas in 4 years

except for a rental car here and there when there was travel.

For 90% of private vehicle use, electric is best.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 01:52 PM

15. Actually untrue...a family member works in an industry that will produce electric vehicles...

They are sold out for two years...the first vehicle has not come off the assembly line.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 02:27 PM

18. Not True. Tesla out sold the other 3 luxury brands last year

and that trend will likely accelerate because once you drive an electric car, you'll never go back to a combustion engine again.

And, I'm saying this as someone who was really against buying an electric car -- until I actually bought one.

You can't pry it out of my cold dead hands now. LOL!

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 01:50 PM

14. We don't need it. There was never any benefit for us...even without electric cars...that

oil was always going to exported overseas... very few American jobs also...but we take all the environmental risks. For Shame Canada. you could never get Canadienne's to agree to something like this. Also, please note the path of the pipeline was changed to benefit White people and harm Native Americans.

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Response to SmartVoter22 (Original post)

Fri Jan 29, 2021, 02:57 PM

22. We really don't need expensive poor quality tar-sands crude

Electric vehicles aside, we don't need this oil.

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