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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:50 PM Feb 2021

It's odd seeing people hammer Dems for not questioning a witness in 2-3 weeks instead of hammering

the GOP for acquitting Donald Trump today.

Especially since Democrats got that witness' testimony into the record and it wouldn't have made any difference at all to the outcome even if Jesus Christ Himself stood next to her nodding and giving thumps ups while she testified.

The focus should be on the Republicans not on the Democrats who busted their asses and did a brilliant job in putting together and presenting their case.

Why is it that some Democrats are so intent on tearing down their own?

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
It's odd seeing people hammer Dems for not questioning a witness in 2-3 weeks instead of hammering (Original Post) StarfishSaver Feb 2021 OP
Nicolle Wallace just said that all the witnesses went cold. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #1
LOL. What kind of standard is that? servermsh Feb 2021 #5
You want to call witnesses who won't testify? TwilightZone Feb 2021 #19
actually if the DA doesn't think you will be a good witness and aren't needed dsc Feb 2021 #31
Wrong on several counts servermsh Feb 2021 #2
You could say that about anyone StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #9
"You don't know what else she would have testified to. " TwilightZone Feb 2021 #10
It wouldn't have made a difference BainsBane Feb 2021 #35
If they knew he'd be acquitted, why even impeach? leftstreet Feb 2021 #3
They didn't have any choice. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #6
Why didn't they have to impeach Trump on emoluments? leftstreet Feb 2021 #13
With this Senate? I don't think so. The construct of the Senate no longer serves to KPN Feb 2021 #14
Would have had the same result. TwilightZone Feb 2021 #15
We weren't going to get a conviction, but we did a great job Just_Vote_Dem Feb 2021 #4
IMO, Trumps problems ARE over. blueinredohio Feb 2021 #18
Letitia James may disagree n/t Just_Vote_Dem Feb 2021 #21
I'm not holding my breath. blueinredohio Feb 2021 #24
I'm old enough to remember StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #20
I think your last sentence sums it up for many Just_Vote_Dem Feb 2021 #25
Thanks StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #26
My pleasure! n/t Just_Vote_Dem Feb 2021 #28
Was just thinking the same thing betsuni Feb 2021 #32
I suspect some folk were frustrated this week StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #34
Question regarding the witnesses testimony, was it a sworn testimony? KPN Feb 2021 #7
There was no chance in hell 17 pukes would convict with two weeks of testimony fearnobush Feb 2021 #8
Sociopaths always like to get the victims fighting amongst themselves. Irish_Dem Feb 2021 #11
the entire proceeding did not gain us the exact outcome we wanted yellowdogintexas Feb 2021 #12
Isn't that what always happens? The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2021 #16
There will be plenty timms139 Feb 2021 #17
But but but a congresswoman we never heard of until yesterday isn't going to testify StarfishSaver Feb 2021 #22
She won't have timms139 Feb 2021 #30
Yeah, everyone has really been taking it easy... SergeStorms Feb 2021 #23
Weakness and foolish lack of conviction in too many is why we lose elections. Hortensis Feb 2021 #27
They fought as hard as any army ever did Generic Other Feb 2021 #29
Witness testimony rules take 60 votes crimycarny Feb 2021 #33

TwilightZone

(25,562 posts)
1. Nicolle Wallace just said that all the witnesses went cold.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:51 PM
Feb 2021

That likely ended any ongoing discussion of having witnesses.

I agree entirely on where the fury should be directed. Blaming Democrats for a result that was preordained is silly.

servermsh

(913 posts)
5. LOL. What kind of standard is that?
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:53 PM
Feb 2021

If witnesses don't want to talk to the DOJ or DA's, do we just give up? Wow.

TwilightZone

(25,562 posts)
19. You want to call witnesses who won't testify?
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:03 PM
Feb 2021

Sure, that makes sense.

By the way, your motivations are quite clear. You're not fooling anyone.

dsc

(52,188 posts)
31. actually if the DA doesn't think you will be a good witness and aren't needed
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:30 PM
Feb 2021

they do refuse to call you. and just how long would you be willing to wait for stimulus money while this was being litigated.

servermsh

(913 posts)
2. Wrong on several counts
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:52 PM
Feb 2021

- You don't know what else she would have testified to.

- You don't know what is in her contemporaneous notes.

- Raskin reserved the right for more witnesses if her testimony led there. You don't know where that would have led.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
9. You could say that about anyone
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:54 PM
Feb 2021

Should the impeachment trial just gone on for a few months or so just in case a witness might say something no one anticipated?

That's not how it works. And I will bet you that Raskin, et al knew EXACTLY what she would and wouldn't say.

TwilightZone

(25,562 posts)
10. "You don't know what else she would have testified to. "
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:54 PM
Feb 2021

False. She said she would testify no further than what was already noted.

leftstreet

(36,121 posts)
3. If they knew he'd be acquitted, why even impeach?
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:52 PM
Feb 2021

...and these long term serving pols knew exactly what would happen

where are our checks?


TwilightZone

(25,562 posts)
6. They didn't have any choice.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:53 PM
Feb 2021

They had to impeach him. The target audience then became the American public because everyone knew the GOP would ensure he was acquitted.

leftstreet

(36,121 posts)
13. Why didn't they have to impeach Trump on emoluments?
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:56 PM
Feb 2021

Which is oddly the one thing they could have gotten him on


KPN

(15,699 posts)
14. With this Senate? I don't think so. The construct of the Senate no longer serves to
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:58 PM
Feb 2021

support Democracy, at least not with the values many hold today (most of them on the R side of course).

TwilightZone

(25,562 posts)
15. Would have had the same result.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:59 PM
Feb 2021

In fact, we probably got more votes on this than we would have on emoluments.

blueinredohio

(6,797 posts)
18. IMO, Trumps problems ARE over.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:03 PM
Feb 2021

He knows he can do anything and get away with it. No one is going to do anything to him. He'll even get to live at Mar a Lago.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
20. I'm old enough to remember
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:03 PM
Feb 2021

folks here insisting that Pelosi needed to impeach him even if a conviction was impossible because we had to hold him accountable.

And then I remember them insisting that Pelosi needed to send the article of impeachment over to the Senate immediately even if that meant McConnell would either bury it or do a sham trial, because we had to hold him accountable.

I also remember their complaining loudly at the possibility the impeachment trial would be delayed a few weeks because, as they said this needed to be done and disposed of immediately.

But now all of a sudden some of these same folks are throwing a fit because the trial wasn't dragged out indefinitely in order to accommodate live testimony of a witness whose statement was entered into the record and wouldn't have affected the outcome anyway.

Sometimes I think that these folks just want to find something to complain about and for some reason the target of those complaints are always Democrats

Just_Vote_Dem

(2,838 posts)
25. I think your last sentence sums it up for many
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:15 PM
Feb 2021

Some people also don't really understand that in politics you need huge majorities in order to get everything you want. Otherwise-and this happens most of the time-you have to compromise to get even part of what you want. In my personal life I've had to make compromises so I was lucky to understand this at an early age.

And thank you for posting. I enjoy reading your take on things

betsuni

(25,996 posts)
32. Was just thinking the same thing
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:23 PM
Feb 2021

Months of demanding impeachment to hold him accountable, conviction wasn't the point, then wails about a few weeks delay, and now this. Keeping up the Dems-are-weak-spineless-cave-don't-fight drumbeat.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
34. I suspect some folk were frustrated this week
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:26 PM
Feb 2021

at the overwhelming praise at the awesomeness of the House Impeachment Managers' performance - what fun is that - and they were just looking for an excuse to run the "Democrats are Weak" flag back up the pole.

fearnobush

(3,960 posts)
8. There was no chance in hell 17 pukes would convict with two weeks of testimony
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:54 PM
Feb 2021

They all believe Trump won pure and simple.

The treasonous 45 will spend the rest of his life and money in court.

Irish_Dem

(49,089 posts)
11. Sociopaths always like to get the victims fighting amongst themselves.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:55 PM
Feb 2021

Rather than look at the bad guys.
Typical strategy.

yellowdogintexas

(22,308 posts)
12. the entire proceeding did not gain us the exact outcome we wanted
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 05:55 PM
Feb 2021

but a lot of information is now public which can be put to good use by the Georgia team (as well as others)

The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,228 posts)
16. Isn't that what always happens?
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:00 PM
Feb 2021

It seems to me that far too many Democrats have internalized the Democrats are weak notion that the media have been propounding for decades, and as a result see every action or result that they either don't like or don't understand as more evidence of that falsehood. It's almost like the abused wife whose husband has told her for years that she's ugly and stupid to the point where she believes it herself, and so she'll never leave because she doesn't think anyone else will have her. Similarly, Democrats have been told they're weak for so long that at least some of them believe it.

We are not weak. We should not take every setback or every misunderstood tactical move as evidence of weakness; that behavior itself contributes to and strengthens the lie.

Just fucking stop it!

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
22. But but but a congresswoman we never heard of until yesterday isn't going to testify
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:05 PM
Feb 2021

in a few weeks about something she's already talked about publicly and is already in the trial record, so the Democrats failed and we're DOOMED!!!!

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
27. Weakness and foolish lack of conviction in too many is why we lose elections.
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:21 PM
Feb 2021

The right doesn't have this weakness, and oh how I wish I could send LW weaklings to subvert their conviction.
Unfortunately, they always "know" who they must fear, fight, hate, and that they must hang together to defeat their enemies. No confusion.

Generic Other

(28,979 posts)
29. They fought as hard as any army ever did
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 06:28 PM
Feb 2021

They are my heroes. They fought against Bannon, Rove, Stone and Trump.

I believe in ma'at, the principle of truth in ancient Egypt. Truth will prevail. One's heart is weighed against it. And if one is judged wanting, one's soul is lost.

I appreciate you for helping us all better understand process and procedure.

The rest of us only have anger and emotion today. Tomorrow we will have new resolve...

crimycarny

(1,351 posts)
33. Witness testimony rules take 60 votes
Sat Feb 13, 2021, 07:23 PM
Feb 2021

That’s why Lindsey Graham voted to allow witnesses, he wanted to be able to use the threat of tying up the Senate forever.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/senate-acquits-trump-for-second-time-as-seven-republicans-join-democrats-in-guilty-vote-211230767.html

“For roughly two hours on Saturday morning, it appeared that the trial would extend for more than one day, and possibly for weeks or longer. House managers proposed calling witnesses, and the Senate approved the request by a vote of 55 to 45.

But after it became clear that it would require 60 votes to actually approve the rules for calling witnesses, the managers backed off. Hardline Trump loyalists such as Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., had made it clear they would seek to bring the Senate to a grinding halt and not allow It to do any other business other than the trial, turning it into a partisan circus and blocking any progress on a COVID-19 relief bill.”


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