Maddow is going through ***RIGHT NOW*** what black people on DU have stated ...

[uponit7771]

... in the last couple of days; that lethal deadly force is ... NOT ... used against white people even when justified

vs

"... it was justified ..." for some is all that is needed to explain police killing black people even when less than lethal forces CAN be used.


America is better than "cause it was legal" or "cause they could" when it comes to policing.


We need to demand equal and better, no doubt

[panader0]

1. The racism in the police has always been there.

[Dawson Leery]

2. America's first police forces were created to hunt down escaped slaves.

[misanthrope]

31. Snopes

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-origins-of-policing-in-the-united-states/

[CrackityJones75]

28. It is the root reason for their existence!

[I_UndergroundPanther]

3. Fuck republicans

Fuck the right wing it needs to be amputated.

Watching Rachel and I am so pissed off.

Fucking right wing fascist, racist,homophobic,
transphobe control freak sociopath
pieces of shit
gotta be seperated from power permantly.

Fuck the assholes who voted in these monsters and thier stupid beliefs .

There is going to come a point when it's either us or them . The rethugs think they
own this country and can corrupt it to the point black people
and poc getting murdered is legal.

These right-wing narcissist
evangelical control freaks need to lose power permanently.
And if stupid
sociopath people
keep voting in these fascist pigs we are going to at some
point going have to say fuck your vote to them. Because they are traitors.

At some point we are going to have to take thier control of legislation
Away and say fuck you and the insane assholes who put
you there..to take
away others rights to exist.

They will make living in this country unliveable
For all the people these white monsters don't like if they keep abusing power.

And they'll never stop abusing power because of what they believe in. What they believe is evil. Divine right of kings,black and poc are inferior etc. etc.


I fear at some point these racist,sexist evangelical thugs will have to be removed from power,and it may come to that before this country goes totally fascist. They abuse power and the offices they occupy.

How long to we have to play nice with the minority fascists.

[Maraya1969]

4. People who are cheering for the guy who killed the girl with a knife piss me off and

asking if that same maneuver would have been used if it was a white girl is a good enough question for me. The answer is "NO" That would have found another way to get the knife off of a 15 year old girl besides shooting her to death.

The way people are defending the police about this is making my stomach sick. They are acting like the girl was flying around like Jackie Chan.

[Journeyman]

8. Peyton Ham. 16. . . .

The trooper, whose name was not immediately released, was responding to two 911 emergency calls about "a guy acting suspicious" and possibly armed with a gun in a residential neighborhood. He arrived to find the teen in a home's driveway "in a shooting stance, pointing a gun at the trooper," Jones said.

"The trooper fired at the male, wounding him," Jones said.

The teen, who was identified as Peyton Ham, 16, and who lived a few houses away, then pulled a knife, Jones said.

"The trooper ordered him to drop the knife before he fired again," Jones said.

The teen was rushed to a nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead, he said.

Investigators later determined the teen was carrying an airsoft gun, a toy that is a close copy of an actual weapon and used to shoot BBs, which Jones described as "a replica gun that represented a real weapon."

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2021-04-14/teen-shot-dead-after-aiming-toy-gun-at-maryland-state-police-trooper

Presented as illustration that the problem is pervasive and extends to all corners of our society.

[bdamomma]

10. More info

is coming out regarding this situation. The girl with the knife was the person who called Police for help. Also why do the police escalate these situations what ever happened to just getting the facts before shooting. Or shooting off a warning shot.

[Calista241]

14. Calling the cops doesn't mean anything.

Trying to kill someone in front of the cops is probably a bad idea.

[bdamomma]

19. Lawrence O'Donnell

was just discussing this with a retired police chief (I think) the cop acted by shooting the girl with the knife to protect the girl with the pink outfit.

[greenjar_01]

22. We have confirmation on who called the police?

I only saw something like that attributed to the girl's aunt.

[Maraya1969]

26. Yea, why don't they fire warning shots anymore? And he could have easily shot

her in the leg. But they are trained shoot to kill. That is so wrong. There is no reason that young girl should have been killed and I guarantee that if she was white she would still be alive.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

40. Warning shots?

Are you serious?
You do realize that that bullet has to come down somewhere and a leg shot?
A leg shot can be just as fatal as a head shot or a chest shot, especially if the Femoral Artery is hit, you would bleed out in seconds.

[betsuni]

27. Yes, like Jackie Chan. I was thinking, not as if she's a professional assassin well-trained in

techniques to take someone out with one one skillful thrust of a knife. If there's even one case of a white girl shot multipole times by police because of a knife fight where she's not directly going for the officer, I'd like to hear about it. I can't imagine it happening, because nobody would think she was a movie character with superhuman powers.

[kcr]

36. Cheering?

Come on. But let's not act like the lack of concern over the girl she attempted to stab wasn't a thing.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

41. Cheering?

That's a fucking lie, nobody here is cheering the death of a teen girl.

[Pachamama]

5. Wasn't justified lethal force used to shoot a white protestor on January 6th?

To say it isn’t used against white people is inaccurate....

Maybe not as often, but it is and if you are making reference to the shooting in Columbus Ohio, I think that is a situation that should not be pointed to as involving race in the decision that was made for a split second decision by a police officer using deadly force to protect a citizen.

[uponit7771]

9. 1. the capital terrorist weren't "protesting" 2. you're making my point for me by posting ...

... that ***a*** protestor was shot vs if 97% of the 1/6 terrorist were black a majority of them would've been shot or arrested.

3. "maybe not as often" goes without saying and I'm talking about more than just a couple of instances Maddow outlined like ... 6 of them in just the last month where the person of color gets killed but a person who is white gets let go on bail for instance.

[meadowlander]

11. One white protestor in a mob of 5,000+

If they had been black, the whole group would have been mowed down on the exterior steps.

[Calista241]

15. A fair number of armed black groups have protested in the last 6 months.

Not a single one of them was shot. The NFAC is the real deal.

[FailureToCommunicate]

17. "armed black groups" have protested in last 6 months, and none were shot ?!?

Unlikely. Got any way to back up your statement?

[uponit7771]

18. The armed black groups weren't protesting with BLM protestors on purpose IINM

[meadowlander]

21. Their comment on January 6th:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7apye/leader-of-not-fucking-around-coalition-on-capitol-riots-if-that-was-us-thered-still-be-body-bags

"If That Was Us, 'There’d Still Be Body Bags'"

[Skittles]

33. you're not following the narrative here

it's just always, you know, black and white

[Bettie]

54. How many of them forcibly invaded a government building

and assaulted police officers there?

How many erected a gallows to hang elected officials?

Oh. Zero, you say?

Weird, right? Also, that woman who was shot, was trying to climb through a window into an area where lawmakers were (or had been a few minutes before) and she was given multiple warnings.

Had she been Black, she would never have even penetrated that far into the building, she would have been dead on the steps, before so much as a window was broken. That's if they even got that far.

[FakeNoose]

16. I don't believe race becomes an issue for the January 6th insurrection

I do agree that it's a good example that whites who are misbehaving or threatening police CAN and DO get themselves shot. However there were very few black or brown Americans participating that day. At least I don't remember seeing them, and there are very few shown in the police evidence photos.

If more blacks or people of color had been entering the Capitol that day, who would have gotten shot? Who would have been arrested more often? It's hard to say, but I'd lay odds that more black people would have been locked up or shot. While side-by-side with white insurrectionists, the blacks would have been the ones put in handcuffs. The reason we didn't see that is because few people of color were even there that day.

When black people are involved it should be seen that white police are more likely to use lethal force, and less likely to use other non-lethal interventions. What needs to be addressed is the quick escalation to lethal force - when black citizens are present - that is where these incidents are ending up.

[backscatter712]

20. One would have to be a fucking idiot to be part of that racist lynch mob on Jan 6.

And they'd have to be even more of an idiot to be part of that while not white.

They literally put up a gallows in front of the Capitol.

[torius]

29. I knew a white guy

who was killed by police. Maybe an outlier. He was brandishing a knife against himself in a church. No threat to anyone (the congregation stated this except himself. Lethal force is disproportionately used against Blacks for sure. (This happened in very White Vermont.)
https://justiceforwoody.wtc7.net/story/shooting.html

[I_UndergroundPanther]

30. You'd be surprised at the rates

People with mental illness wind up dead.

https://namiillinois.org/half-people-killed-police-disability-report/

[torius]

32. It's just horrible

they need to send trained people to intervene, not to kill. Even when some callers to the police request that, people still end up dying.

[bdamomma]

39. Mental Health Professionals

should be consulted. There are many who are suffering from mental health issues.

[kcr]

37. Yes. There was that poor woman with dementia recently in the news

And kids with autism pop up fairly regularly as victims as well.

[malaise]

6. Excellent program

Love Rachel

[malaise]

7. Excellent program

Love Rachel

[HipChick]

12. Been going on for decades...What is new

are cell phones....

[malaise]

13. Technological developments

make a difference - those cameras rule. We'll soon have to hide them because you know they don't want to be seen.

[BobTheSubgenius]

23. Not exactly news to anyone paying any kind of attention at all.

[AZLD4Candidate]

24. Certain lives haven't mattered here for a long time, sadly. . .sometimes if ever.

Black people
Native Americans
The Chinese (The Chinese Exclusion Act)
The Japanese during WW2

This is just an abbreviated list.

[triron]

25. Rachel did good.

[Sympthsical]

34. Why do you post such a monstrous untruth?

Plenty of white people are shot and killed by police every year. There are literal statistics on this a Google search away.

You posted a blatant, verifiable lie.

What is the purpose of this? Not enough gasoline on a fire to taste?

If you have to tell lies, it means your arguments are rotten.

[uponit7771]

35. Why bring MAGA Media tripe here like you don't understand the word "disproportionate" and its

... not indicated multiple times in Maddow's segment tonight or the narrative in policing for the last 90 years when it comes to PoC and white people?!

Really?

If someone has to explain to you what recorded and statistical disproportionate policing means at this point you've not been paying half assed attention to reality based issues regarding equal rights in policing in this country.

Racial disparity in police shootings unchanged over 5 years

https://news.yale.edu/2020/10/27/racial-disparity-police-shootings-unchanged-over-5-years

Using information from a national database compiled and maintained by The Washington Post, researchers found that victims identifying as Black, Indigenous, or People of Color (BIPOC), whether armed or unarmed, had significantly higher death rates compared with whites. And those numbers remained relatively unchanged from 2015 to May 2020. The report appears in the Oct. 27 edition of the Journal of Epidemiology and Public Health.

Watch what you put in your head

[Sympthsical]

50. You claimed a falsehood, and now you double down and accuse me of being right-wing

Allow me to quote exactly you:

"Maddow is going through ***RIGHT NOW*** what black people on DU have stated in the last couple of days; that lethal deadly force is ... NOT ... used against white people even when justified"

Your words.

Here's some stats.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

457 white people killed by police. Are those lives a joke to you? You said, "Lethal deadly force is not used against white people, even when justified."

You have this idea that white people aren't being screwed by police. Even if you don't have that idea, it is real, real easy to interpret that you feel that way based on your language. No one here (I hope) disagrees that black people are being targeted and disproportionately victims of police violence. No one. (I hope).

But you and others keep saying these things, and I keep wondering, is this a reality you just built for yourself based on the dogma you're managing? White people are victimized and abused and killed by the police everyday. The objective statistics bear this out.

The police are a fucking problem for all of us, and black people are the canaries in the societal coal mine.

Instead, we get these stories. That viral a week ago of an armed old white guy getting away. Like that's every encounter with white people ever. Yes, we all get away with it. The extreme anomaly is taken as the common truth because it serves the narrative.

Stop with the fucking Narrative. It's dishonest, it speaks to no one, it makes you feel purposed and righteous, and the fence-sitters see it for the lie it is and shrink away. It's damaging.

You ask me to watch what is put in my head. I don't watch cable news, so I didn't see Maddow - I am responding to what you wrote. I don't think anyone should watch cable news. Seriously. It's garbage. Even if some of it is your candy, candy isn't great for you.

Watch your ideology and your dogma. You have picked a very, very illogical and dumb instance as a hill to die on. Not even Reddit - which is famously liberal and an echo chamber and backed far away from this case - is going along on this one. But suddenly, stab wounds aren't bad, and tasers are suddenly Star Trek phasers that can work magic.

The arguments look stupid on their face.

A black life was saved by a white police officer. That's what the vast majority of people are seeing here.

Your dogma is doing more harm than good. You're alienating allies when you could be gaining them. You're displaying an irrational desire for outrage where none is required. And then people will ask, "What are you about exactly? Except that white people suck?"

And then, you've lost.

I'm white. Gay, but white. So, I try as hard as I can to find black justice, to support BLM because it's important and not just a conversation, but a conversation long overdue.

But once you fall into the dogma pit, and it's all anti-cops, anti-white, you've lost. And not just on principle, but because demographics are rapidly overtaking it all.

[uponit7771]

51. You used a lot of letters to admit you ignored the word "Maddow" in my op title like the ...

.... other poster who is trying this bullshit.

Good try though

[Sympthsical]

52. You cannot admit you're wrong

Doubling down isn't a virtue. It's an admission of a lack of wisdom.

I used your words. Now you want to pretend your words don't exist. Maddow doesn't absolve you of your speech.

Rights have responsibilities. You exercised your speech. I'm holding you accountable for your speech.

You said an untrue thing. I provided evidence. Your best course of action - and it's the least damaging - is to pretend you didn't read any responses. Best internet response, IME.

[uponit7771]

53. This is false relative to the segment of that night, if you don't know what the segment was

... and don't care to know then of course you would think I was wrong

This thread doesn't have 70 recs because I was wrong

[Sympthsical]

55. "A couple of people on the internet think I'm right," isn't an argument

And you know that. (At least, I hope you know that).

I don't watch cable news. Again, it's the garbage bin of American thought. I used and quoted your own words and ideas. And those words and ideas have been repeated elsewhere here by other people. That white people aren't targeted by cops.

If you had said, "Black people are disproportionately targeted by police, and this is a massive problem," we'd not be having this discussion at all. Because it's an inarguable fact.

You didn't say that.

Take responsibility. Consequence culture, yo.

[Rhiannon12866]

38. Rachel Maddow video:

Police Killings Of Black Americans Continue Apace In Wake Of Chauvin Verdict - Rachel Maddow - MSNBC
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017653008

[TCJ70]

42. If black people are saying lethal force is not used against white people even when justified...

...they're wrong. And so is Maddow. You'll find instances where it isn't used on either group. You'll find cases where it is in disproportionate numbers. It is factually incorrect to say that lethal force is never used against white people.

Are you prepared to say that police have not killed any white people?

[uponit7771]

43. No one but MAGA Media is proffering this asinine assed strawman. The issue is disproportionality

... of one group being shot than the other REGARDLESS of justification.

Maddow even went through a CLEAR example of only one 1/6 terrorist NOT only not being shot when it was justified they were let out of jail without bond when there was premeditated expressions to kill police.

Please understand disproportionate policing is one of the reasons people AROUND THE WORLD marched last year.

[TCJ70]

44. Your OP doesn't say anything about proportionality...

...it says lethal force is not used against white people even when justified. That’s incorrect.

My response to you acknowledges that things are disproportionate but you’re responding to me like I didn’t say something that you didn’t even mention in your OP.

[uponit7771]

45. No one has to, that's been part of the argument forever. Do you really think people marched in ...

... the millions last year for only black people getting shot being part of the argument?!

Also

Does it has to rise to "only black people getting shot" before someone says something about it?

Thx

[TCJ70]

46. You're deflecting.

Do you think police never kill white people?

[uponit7771]

47. You're not paying even half assed attention and your question is shitty on its face

[TCJ70]

48. I'm just trying to figure out if you actually believe what you wrote:

that lethal deadly force is ... NOT ... used against white people even when justified

Do you think that’s true?

[uponit7771]

49. In the context of Maddow's segment of course I do, if you extract that statement away from her segme

... and stand it alone it's ridiculous on its face

But so is the notion of ignoring the word Maddow in my OP title