Liz Cheney secretly organized move to block Trump from using military to overturn election: report

[JohnSJ]

"Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) was the organizer of an open letter by all living former Defense Secretaries against the military intervening in election disputes.

The revelation was made to Susan Glasser of The New Yorker by Eric Edelman, a friend of Cheney's who served as an advisor to her father.

.......................

""Little noticed at the time was another Cheney effort to combat Trump's post-election lies, a twenty-one-page memo written by Cheney and her husband, Phil Perry, an attorney, and circulated on January 3rd to the entire House Republican Conference. In it, Cheney debunked Trump's false claims about election fraud and warned her colleagues that voting to overturn the election results, as Trump was insisting, would 'set an exceptionally dangerous precedent.' But, of course, they did not listen. Even after the storming of the Capitol, a hundred and forty-seven Republican lawmakers voted against accepting the election results," Glaser wrote.

The joint letter was signed by Ashton Carter, Dick Cheney, William Cohen, Mark Esper, Robert Gates, Chuck Hagel, James Mattis, Leon Panetta, William Perry and Donald Rumsfeld.

American elections and the peaceful transfers of power that result are hallmarks of our democracy. With one singular and tragic exception that cost the lives of more Americans than all of our other wars combined, the United States has had an unbroken record of such transitions since 1789, including in times of partisan strife, war, epidemics and economic depression. This year should be no exception," the former defense secretaries wrote.

"Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived," they explained. "As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, 'there's no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.' Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic."

https://www.rawstory.com/liz-cheney-trump-military-coup/

We may never know, but I have always wonder just how close we came to a military take-over

I don't know how many remember, but Flynn was suggesting that the military take over the voting machines, and other un-Constitutional manuevers, in a speech:

https://news.yahoo.com/flynn-suggests-trump-deploy-military-080204111.html

[TreasonousBastard]

1. We would be Myanmar.

[JohnSJ]

2. I was thinking that very thing at the time, and I wonder how close we really came to it

[MarineCombatEngineer]

12. There was never any danger of a military takeover,

Gen. Miley and the SecArmy made that very clear on numerous occasions.

Look, I spent a very large portion of my adult life in the military and the Oath of Enlistment that each and every recruit takes is taken very seriously by the vast majority of the military and it was hammered into our heads that it is the responsibility of each and every Officer, NCO and Enlistee to refuse an unlawful order.

And Flynn? He's nothing more than a traitor who should be recalled to active duty and prosecuted to the full extent of the UCMJ and if found guilty, sent to Leavenworth for the rest of his miserable fucking life.

[Irish_Dem]

15. But there is a military Trumper coalition. From brass to lowest rank.

They could have formed a group and assisted in the insurrection?
Risking court martial of course, but they are crazy enough to have figured it might work out for them.

Flynn is not the only general who likes Trump.
Yes they should face a military court.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

21. That doesn't change the fact that the danger of a military coup

was non existent, the commanding officers, and especially the NCO's would never have gone along with such an illegal order.

[Irish_Dem]

23. I was thinking rogue group, not chain of command.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. True,

but just how long would they have lasted against the FBI's HRT? Or the Secret Service SWAT teams? Or other LE's SWAT teams?

Not very long I would think, they would cause some damage but they wouldn't live to see the results.

[Irish_Dem]

33. Trump would have used them and let them hang.

Insurrectionists the world over willingly take the risk to overthrow governments.
It is a huge gamble and you can pay with your life.

My read of the situation is that the top brass knew that Trump was attempting to use the military if he could to overturn the election with the coup. And the brass knew there was Trump support amongst some of the generals and rank and file.

If you recall the Joint Chiefs made some extraordinary public written statements about the military not getting involved in the election results. So I think they were trying to reassure the public, send a message to Trump, and also trying to clamp down on any rogue military groups.

I think the situation was more dangerous than we know.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. Unfortunately,

I don't think we'll ever know just how close we came, but it is still my firm belief that the vast majority of the military would have refused such an illegal order.

[Irish_Dem]

41. I agree with both your comments.

Yes the vast majority of troops would have refused such an order.
I am thinking smallish rogue group.

And yes, of course, the military will never reveal their dirty laundry about this.

( I am a military brat, Dad was career AF, combat veteran of three wars.)

[stopdiggin]

85. I too, agree with your comments

and (hopefully) your analysis as well. I was heartened, and proud, when the military (quite publicly) refused to go along with the seditious nonsense. But I do have to point out how many of our citizens (both in and out of the military) -- are completely on board with the 'Stolen Election' narrative. Still today! Completely convinced that the actions of Jan 6th -- both by the protesters, and by the legislators -- were absolutely right, and supremely patriotic. And in that context -- I'm not sure if 'illegal orders' would have been as black and white (to many) as you suggest? Indeed, there appear(ed) to be a surprising number of (former?) military on hand that day -- demonstrating that a number of them saw no problems ....

The Trump cult, by very definition, is imbued with a heavy disdain for 'rules and regs.' We could hardly get a clearer picture ....

[lindysalsagal]

92. Agreed. But, as it stands, no one is impeding the prosecution of the Jan 6 attackers

as far as we know. So, in a painfully damaging way, that's showing any future hopefuls what awaits them if they seriously attempt another coup. Full prosecution without relief from congress.

[Dan]

94. But how many of our citizens (both in and out of the military)

REJECTED the lie and the Bullshit that is Trump.

[stopdiggin]

95. also true

----- -----

[Tommymac]

89. Unfortunately Coups usually only involve small numbers of military supporters.

The issue is we normal people just can't get the fact that some people WILL not care about breaking laws, traditions or lying to get what they want. And they WILL resort to Violence, not Reason.

They will do ANYTHING necessary; peaceful legal or rational reasoning means shit to them. Might makes Right.

See Vladimir Lenin and the takeover of Russia - it was a tiny percentage of men who outsmarted and thumbed their nose at Russian law, tradition or reason. They overcame tens of millions and World opinion because they JUST DIDN'T CARE.

I think our military COULD have been compromised, but enough was done by efforts such as the one in the OP to forestall the planned violent coup.

IF the Insurrectionists had been able to take hostages or kill some pols on 1/6, I think things would have been vastly different and we would be living in a dictatorship right now.

[Smackdown2019]

101. There was a rogue group....called Jan 6

We are still hunting them down!

They took over the Capitol and lives were lost.

Make no assumptions about it, the chief leader was Trump!

[JohnSJ]

17. It is obviously hypothetical, but it seems to have concerned some people enough to issue not

only this letter, but also that General Miley and Sec of the Army came out to make that clear as you pointed out.

[patphil]

63. I've also said that to family and friends. Flynn can be prosecuted if he is active duty.

[llashram]

66. I just wish

so many from our military, ex-military, police, and other first responders had not been in the mob of insurrectionists bent on taking over our government by force...they were ready to KILL pence. That's all I needed to know about the seriousness of their murderous, treasonous intent.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

71. I couldn't agree more with you. nt

[PortTack]

76. Right...General Miley made that very clear

[BobTheSubgenius]

80. I don't think there was a serious danger of that, either.

As I said in an earlier thread, I believe that the vast majority of military members, from private to the Pentagon believe in the mission of their service, and take seriously the oaths they swore.

[calimary]

88. Greatly appreciate your perspective, MarineCombatEngineer.

I hope you’re right. Lifelong civilian here but Dad and father-in-law were WW2 veterans.

I don’t know that much about military justice procedures but whatever the stiffest punishment is - seems to me he’s earned it. Many times over.

[DENVERPOPS]

54. How close???????????

About one millimeter John. They were about one millimeter from obliterating the U.S. Constitution and Democracy.

They were that close to implanting a Corporate Fascist Tyranny.

We would have no longer been the U.S.A., but the newly C.S.A. Corporate States of America.....

The dictionary defines Fascism as the merger of Government and Corporations.....We are scary close to that and have been for years.

Let it be known, next time, they will be much better organized, and more heavily armed.

AND, after having seen what happened last time with a segment of the Police and Guard Members actions, based on THEIR personal political beliefs, I wouldn't depend a lot on a segment of them standing ground against the insurrectionists and seditionists.........

I remember when W/Cheney/Rumsfeld tried to get the Posse Comatatus Act thrown out. That was a very frightening comment on where the Republican Party was going.......It was not surprising to me that 99% of the people I talked to about it, didn't even know what that act was, or what it was about.........

[JohnSJ]

62. I think one thing is certain, on January 6th there were people in that crowd who wanted to kill our

elected leaders in the House and Senate. They chanted as much

[DENVERPOPS]

73. In countless other countries

They would have been rounded up and shot. (China? Thiamin Square?) They can thank goodness that we are living in a law abiding democracy except for the likes of them.........

[MarineCombatEngineer]

74. I'm against the DP,

but in this case...................it really stretches my opposition to the DP.

[DENVERPOPS]

77. MCE

I am right there with you...............and not by some court, but by armed LEO's as soon as they came through any door or window....
Too damn bad that none of them went after Pence, the Secret Service would have dropped them on the spot........the SS is definitely a "game over" group.........

[Moostache]

68. As a child of the 80's and a trained biochemist...

I say, in the words of their fantasy saint John Rambo..."Don't push it. Let it go or I'll give you a war you won't believe."

Fuck these miserable traitors. They are chicken hawk assholes and talk big and bad until the shit hits...then they are the guys from the rear with the gear to a man.

[DENVERPOPS]

75. Moostache

what do you think of this idea:

Since they love to play soldiers....Round them all up, with all their military gear and military assault weapons, give them some food, and transport them to Afghanistan to replace the soldiers we are bringing back from there........

The world would all get to see just how tough they are fighting a force that isn't a group of defenseless demonstrators......

[Moostache]

82. I think we would have an AWOL problem really fast...

But the thought is good...they want to act like they're itching for a fight, send them to a real one and see how few actually show up.

There were a few thousand on the 6th in DC. If the DC police had opened fire on them instead of allowing them to first breach the barriers and then the building itself, they would have scattered into the wind and claimed it was tyranny.

I act the idea of sending them to the Taliban though, those people in the caves and tribal areas have been fighting for CENTURIES...the redneck brigades and Michigan Militia toy soldiers would not last a single fire fight with those bastards.

[DENVERPOPS]

90. LOL

Did you see where the family of the woman who was shot by the guards is suing the Federal Gov't for MILLIONs????????

WTF ????????????

If the guards hadn't stopped the mob at those doors, they would have reached the members of congress including Pelosi who was one of their major targets to kill...............

Did they think, that all those men aiming weapons at them wouldn't fire to protect the lawmakers???????????

[MarineCombatEngineer]

107. And leave us not forget

that earlier, 2 pipe bombs were found at the Democratic Party Hdqrs and at the Republican Party Hdqrs, this woman was halfway through the broken window, WITH A FUCKING BAG that could have had a bomb in it.
What were the Police to think?

[DENVERPOPS]

113. Those seditionist insurrectionists

have no idea how lucky they were that she was the only one......

[CrispyQ]

81. I don't recall any of the moderate repubs, who are speaking out now about the extremism of the

Republican Party, speaking out when Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld tried to get the Posse Comitatus Act thrown out. I don't recall any outrage when Bush joked it would be easier if this were a dictatorship, as long as he was the dictator. I'm glad they're finally saying something, but the Republican Party has been heading this way for a while, now & they were all A-OK with it until they lost control to a TV show host buffoon. And now, here we are in a battle for our government.

From Wiki for those who've forgotten:

Posse Comitatus Act
The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law signed on June 18, 1878, by President Rutherford B. Hayes which limits the powers of the federal government in the use of federal military personnel to enforce domestic policies within the United States.

[uponit7771]

4. +1, the brother of an admitted traitor LITERALLY was involved in the slow down of troops to help

... hold back the Trump Terrorist and is still in the military.

If we don't pass HR1 or win in 2022 we'll .. NO DOUBT .. be Belarus

[exboyfil]

11. Why he hasn't appeared before Congress yet

is a question to me. I hope the DoJ and the DoD are moving towards answering that question. At a minimum he needs an office in a closet with no security clearance and no command responsibility. Pay him if you have to, but keep him away from any actual operations/administration.

[uponit7771]

48. +1,

[blm]

3. When letter was released I assumed it was a response to certain intel

that Trump intended to use military to commandeer the election process.

Dangerously close.

[JohnSJ]

5. That is what Flynn was pushing at the time

https://news.yahoo.com/flynn-suggests-trump-deploy-military-080204111.html

and with the republican party pushing the same lie, along with what is happening in Arizona, it is very disturbing

[exboyfil]

9. And it sure appeared that his brother was running interference

inside the DoD. I hope we are pulling on that thread as well. The active General Flynn lied about his presence in the meeting regarding Guard protection. He should be cashiered out as well.

[JohnSJ]

13. That is why I really hope we have a hearing this, and what happened on January 6 in Congress

[MarineCombatEngineer]

14. Flynn, I refuse to use the title Gen.,

is retired, but he is subject to recall, so the DoD can recall him to active duty and prosecute him under the UCMJ and if convicted, sent to Leavenworth.

[exboyfil]

22. Charles Flynn

He is still active as far as I can tell.

https://www.ausa.org/people/lt-gen-charles-flynn

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_A._Flynn

On January 25, 2021, the Department of Defense announced that Flynn will be the next commander of the U.S. Army Pacific at Fort Shafter in Honolulu.[6] His nomination for promotion to general was submitted to the U.S. Senate on 30 November 2020 and confirmed by voice vote of the full Senate on 20 December 2020.[7] President Joe Biden has not yet signed his commission and appointed him to the post.


We already know about the pardon receiving Michael Flynn, and I agree he should be recalled and subjected to UCMJ.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

26. Thanks for the links,

didn't know this, but I don't see Pres. Biden actually signing off on this.

[2Gingersnaps]

64. He should be charged for his part in the coup attempt

instead of promoted. I susect we are still a Constitutional Republic because Demented Don didn't have as much military support as he thought.

[TheRealNorth]

67. Why can't he be sent to some small outpost in Alaska?

If Trump can do shit to the Vindmans, why should this traitor get a cushy job.

[DENVERPOPS]

79. How about a Court Marshall

in a Military Court????????????? Then off to Leavenworth........

[stopdiggin]

93. I don't think that Charles Flynn

ever denied being in that meeting. As I recall, it was some mouthpiece for the Defense Dept. that attempted a clumsy cover-up -- because 'bad optics.' Whether Flynn was complicit in that attempted cover-up is another question -- but let's not put words in mouths ....

[Lovie777]

6. Honestly I don't the Military would have .....

but every little bit helps.

[JohnSJ]

8. We probably will never know, however, with what is going on in Arizona right now, hiring a

Qanon hack voting firm to "recount the ballots", along with what happened on January 6th, sure implies that was and is on the mind of some high powered people in government, starting with the former president and his hench people

[Chakaconcarne]

7. so then maybe she deserves a little credit?

not a fan of hers, but I respect the move.

[JohnSJ]

10. If she was the motivating force behind this, then yes

[johnthewoodworker]

16. The Republican/Nazis have taken over states (Ariz., Texas, Wis.,Flor.) they will change voting and

democracy. About 40% of our country is Nazi. I'm sure things will go well.

[JohnSJ]

19. I think about 30%, which is till alarming

[Irish_Dem]

18. She was only preserving the Cheney brand and her future run for president.

Do the Cheneys really care about this country? NO

They care about power and money.

[malthaussen]

44. Granted, but at least she links preservation of that brand with preservation of the Union...

... whereas it appears that most of the GOP do not.

-- Mal

[malaise]

20. The military also told the coup plotter in chief that

they would not get involved in the DC protests last summer.

[UpInArms]

24. When Darth Vader Dick and Rummy

get concerned .... I never thought there would be any place of common ground with me and them ...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

27. Weird isn't it?

I never thought I would be in agreement with the likes of D. Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.

Strange bedfellows.

[malthaussen]

45. Well, Dick is her dad, after all.

She probably used her girlish wiles.

-- Mal

[Marie Marie]

105. I think she is getting much advice from Daddy and his friends.

Daddy knows how to do things behind a veil of secrecy. Maybe it helped but I do not think the military would have stepped in to help that former guy hang onto power.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

108. You are correct,

there was never a possibility of the military going along with Trump, the vast majority of the Officer's Corp, the NCO's and the Enlisted ranks would have refused such an illegal and any rogue elements of the military would be put down PDQ.

[DENVERPOPS]

114. Sad

that the same can't be said about the police departments across the nation......

[TheRealNorth]

70. They could never control Trump

Last edited Fri May 7, 2021, 03:24 PM - Edit history (1)

They realize if they gave someone like Trump dictatorial powers, he could have their heads on pikes (literally or figuratively) if they said something that His Orangeness didn't like.

[NYC Liberal]

86. Only because they wouldn't be the ones in charge.

Let’s not we forget that they were planning ways to “delay” the election in 2004 because TERRA!

[woodsprite]

104. They were only concerned because they weren't running the show. nt

[global1]

28. Is It Time For Some MSM Outlet To Run A Special News Show Featuring This Letter.....

organized by Cheney and signed by the Defense Secretaries.

Given the controversy over L.Cheney and the Repugs right now - wouldn't a good news analysis of this letter and its contents go a long way in helping to dispel the 'big lie'?

Come on - MSNBC - here's an opportunity for you!!!

[MarineCombatEngineer]

30. +100. nt

[dlk]

29. It looks like we escaped a coup by just a hair

And it's not over yet.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. No, we didn't escape a coup by a hair, at least where the military is concerned,

there was never any danger of a military takeover of the Govt., Gen. Miley and the Sec. of the Army made that very clear on numerous occasions.
The Commanding Officers, NCO's and the vast majority of Enlistee's would never have obeyed such an illegal order.

You are right that the danger is still there and needs to be rooted out and destroyed.

[dlk]

37. Not a military coup, but a takeover just the same

As I understand it, not all coups are military in nature. And as much as I disagree with Liz Cheney about pretty much everything, her move to have the letter written was brilliant.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

39. +100. nt

[Joinfortmill]

31. Holy shit

[colsohlibgal]

34. This Is an All Hands On Deck Time

Hate needing to give any credit to Liz Cheney, her Dad, and Rummy but any port in a storm and we are in a real storm threatening our Democracy.

[H2O Man]

36. Recommended.

How close? Very, very close. We were at the edge of the point of no return.

[dlk]

43. When I see state legislatures rebelling against DC and the voters

As they have in Missouri, where voters approved Medicaid expansion and the legislature refused to put it in place, or the red states now cancelling extended unemployment benefits from the federal stimulus, I fear we are still on the precipice. The sad truth is, the Republican party no longer believes in democracy, is actively working to end our current system, not just in Washington, but across the country, in states where they control the legislatures.

[H2O Man]

83. Well said!

And absolutely on target. You've nailed it.

We simply do not have the luxury of waiting for the 2022 election season to open up next year. It has already started, on the local, state, and federal levels. If we at the grass roots are not fully engaged now, we can lose everything Good in this country. I've said for a long time that this country is headed for an updated version of "the Troubles" in Ireland. The only way to prevent this is to be full participants in exercising the social-political muscles that the Constitution attempts to provide for.

[dlk]

84. You are absolutely right!

Democrats can't afford to waste a single day. By the time 2022 rolls around the Republicans' authoritarian cancer will have metastasized

[Kid Berwyn]

38. It doesn't take a lot of agents to make a successful coup.

Just a few well-placed traitors will do the trick.

NOW IS THE TIME TO FIND THEM, IDENTIFY THEM, INDICT THEM, TRY THEM, AND FRY* THE GUILTY.

If we don’t, the traitors will just try again.

* Throw the Book at them.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

40. +100. nt

[JohnSJ]

42. +++. I would like to think that is what the FBI is doing

[C Moon]

46. One of them heads the USPS.

[samnsara]

47. may not agree with her policies but i like her tactics

[marble falls]

49. For an extreme RW extremist, she still 'gets' the Constitution and the concept of rule of law ...

... she gets points for that, but not my vote for any office a Democrat is running for.

[Botany]

50. I wonder if Trump's planned civil war/violent coup was a bridge too far for even Barr too

If Cheney helped in anyway then yes, she deserves some credit.

[ScratchCat]

53. It is my belief

That the "bridge too far" for Barr was when Trump wanted him to contact SOS's and Election Supervisors in Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan and run the routine Trump ended up having to run with the Georgia officials that we heard on the taped phone call. He wanted Barr to tell them they would face federal prosecution if they didn't change the results. The timing of Barr doing that interview, saying there was no widespread fraud that would have changed the outcome of the election, is too coincidental. He wanted Barr to do something unquestionably illegal, and I imagine it involved using the power of DOJ against any State official Trump wanted it used against.

[Botany]

56. I think Trump's failed coup and trying to get Barr to strong arm state offical to change the ...

... election outcomes are one in the same.

"He wanted Barr to do something unquestionably illegal, .... " I don't think breaking the law to
keep republicans in power or out of jail ever bothered Barr. BTW Time Jeffery
Epstein died 1 week after Barr visited the Fed. Prison in NYC where he was kept.

ScratchCat

[Jon King]

51. There was not going to be a military takeover.

The Generals came out quite early and said they would not get involved. If anything, they made sure to send the signal to Trump not even to try it.

The military is 43% non white. Of the whites, a bunch are blue staters. So no way in heck was a 50-50 military going to do a dang thing in terms of illegal orders.

[ScratchCat]

57. "illegal orders"

This is important.

There isn't even a method for a POTUS to "give an order" to the Military to "overturn" the election. This was discussed ad nauseum in November. The US Constitution specifies that his term would end on 01/20/2021. What exactly could a POTUS "order" the military to do? I said back then, the NYSE crashes overnight under any type of "marshal law" proclamation. And so does every other financial market in the world. Neither the POTUS, nor any other Federal body, has any jurisdiction over the certified State election results. There is nothing he could have "ordered" the military to do. A POTUS has no power to tell the "military" to stand in front of the WH and kill anyone who attempts to come in. There is no power to use the military domestically and no General would follow such an order.

Its not that they would have simply "ignored" the orders. They would have "laughed" at the order and then detained Trump as an enemy combatant or insurrectionist.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

59. +100. nt

[Jon King]

61. Exactly, the Generals were never going to do a thing.

No General would have done a thing to help Trump. For all the reasons you said, there was no order he could have given that would have been taken seriously.

[David__77]

52. The Capitol incident seems to have obscured the broader coup attempt.

The Capitol business was not the most serious part of it.

[Jon King]

55. Military leaders and boxers actually look to avoid fights.

There was never going to be a military takeover because the majority of the leaders would not have gone along. These Colonels and Generals have seen war. They knew what a 50-50 military or any sort of split in the military, would do. They knew the country would be at war. Their kids and grand kids would have their worlds destroyed. For Donald Trump? Hell no.

So its the civilian cowards that do all the talking. The internet warriors. The politicians. But no, the military was never on board. They well knew what that would have led to.

Same with guys who threaten to fight at a store or during road rage. Its rarely the trained fighters, boxers, MMA guys. Those are the calmest guys in public who seek to avoid conflict. Because they know what can happen in an actual physical fight. And its all bad. The big talkers are the ones who have never actually been in a real fight.

[Champp]

58. Why do the republicans hate America?

Thanks Liz.

[CaptainTruth]

60. This is why the DC Guard ("Trump's Troops") were disarmed.

"the Commanding General of the D.C. National Guard is subordinate solely to the President of the United States"

From:
[link:https://dc.ng.mil/About-Us/|]

Given the normal chain of command for the DC Guard, Trump coild have ordered them to occupy the Capitol & stop certification of the vote.

I'm convinced that's why the Pentagon wrote the letter of January 4, disarming the DC Guard & removing Trump from the chain of command.

[aquamarina]

65. Can't stand her political viewpoint

But she is a true patriot- I’ll give her that.

[Andy Canuck]

69. A headline I'd like to see

Dick Cheney invites Kevin McCarthy and Ted Cruz to go pheasant hunting.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

72. LOL.

now that's funny.

[DENVERPOPS]

87. Have you all seen the video

Of LaPierre and his trophy wife going on an "Elephant hunt"??????????

Walking right up to an elephant that is just standing there curiously watching them, shooting it five times and still not killing it??????


It will make you physically sick to watch................

His wife then kills another one and is gleeful at her accomplishment, even cutting off it's tail as a memento........

Way beyond despicable.......I can only imagine if the NRA members watched the video that more than half of them would drop their membership to the NRA........

At some point, the Justice people will realize that the NRA has become nothing more than a Russian/Putin money launderer and money distributor to the President's campaign and many Republican Senator's campaigns........

[Hekate]

100. Not exactly off-topic, but I read a memoir of a *real* big-game hunter from over a century ago...

Last edited Sat May 8, 2021, 03:35 AM - Edit history (1)

I disapprove of the practice, but that is beside the point; I was mainly interested because it was about the exploits of two women who had to overcome all the usual obstacles to entering a man’s world, including the snickers about how cute they were as they were setting out in Africa, before they left all the men in the dust.

That said, the author and friend went about the business of stalking and slaughtering creatures that fought back. It was fascinating, in a blood-soaked sort of way. Their trophies were many and acquired at real risk of death to themselves. Then I shut the book and was glad that times, in part, had changed, that most safaris these days are made with tripods and cameras.

The LaPierres and the Trump Boys as hunters? — yes, they are disgusting, but they are also laughable. They like to kill things, but do so at no risk to themselves or their expensive outfits. How fitting for the man who enables mass slaughter of schoolchildren and churchgoers. How fitting for the spoiled sons of a rich man who wants the government overthrown, but will in no sense appear on the barricades themselves.

[speaknow]

78. Liz is no different than the rest of them, did she

vote in favor of the last rescue plan? No. Remember above
all else, the bottom line she is a repub. No one should feel
sorry what ever happens to her, after all she doesn't care
about you or me or anybody else, if she did she would've
voted for the last rescue.

[brooklynite]

91. As someone who lived through a military-backed government overturning democracy....

...I can say this wouldn't happen here.

First, we don't have a corrupt Officer Class which would buy into what Trump was doing.
Second, our military is too large for a handful of supportive Officers to act illegally.
Third, we don't have an uneducated Enlisted Class which would blindly follow illegal orders en-masse.

[JohnSJ]

98. What would have happened if the January 6th mob killed the Democratic leaders in the House and

Senate?

That is not a far fetched hypothetical, it almost happened, but thankfully the timing of events barely saved us

What happened in Michigan to Governor Whitmer shows that there are very dangerous people out there

[brooklynite]

99. Answer: new Leaders would be appointed.

How was the mob going to control what the House and Senate did outside the immediate period they were there?

[JohnSJ]

102. I appreciate your optimism, but if something like that occurred, we would be in uncharted territory

It isn't what "the mob" would do, it is what the republicans who controlled the executive branch and Senate would do. If something had happened to Pelosi and Pence, that is a very open question, and looking at what the republicans are doing in the House, and states like Arizona, Florida, etc. I wouldn't be so optimistic.

In a situation like that, if the speaker, VP, and most of the minority party in Congress were killed, it would be a very real possibility that martial law would be imposed, and where it would go from there, who knows.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

109. Do you have any idea of the massive protests that would erupt in this country

if that had happened, it would be unstoppable.

[JohnSJ]

111. It would be more like a Civil War

[MarineCombatEngineer]

116. You are correct. nt

[TheRealNorth]

103. New Reps and Senators wouldn't be appointed immediately.

Meanwhile, The Republican left in Congress could do what they want. In addition, you would have States like Arizona and Texas that could replace their Democratic senators with Republicans. Republican governors could also slow-walk elections for the replacement house members.

[SWBTATTReg]

96. and the My Pillow guy advocated the imposition of martial law too, in an attempt to overthrow the

results of the Nov. 2020 election results.

[Hekate]

97. So this disagreement the GQP has w Liz is not some petty spat over an uppity woman. At all.

They are in every sense trying to overthrow the US government — then and now. And using her lifetime of connections, Liz Cheney blocked a military coup, for which I for one thank her.

No wonder they are trying to get rid of her. They must hate her with the heat of a thousand suns.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

110. She didn't block a military coup,

there was never any danger of the military attempting to interfere in the election, nor go along with Martial Law, the vast majority of the military would not obey such an illegal order.
She does deserve credit with organizing the the letter, but she did not block a military coup.

[Hekate]

115. Okay

But I still think we were on the edge — and are still in the edge, with or without the military.

[JCMach1]

106. +1000 for helping preserve democracy against a coup attempt...

Points how close we were to the Trumphole Putsch succeeding

[quakerboy]

112. mmmhmmmm

She voted against impeachment until trump lost an election despite the worst cheating her allies could arrange to help him.

Actions speak louder than words.