General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMy humble opinion. CDC is lifting Mask and social distancing too soon.
Full disclosure. I am an introvert. I do interact when I have too and I fell in love working from home. I think I was more productive. I am strongly thinking of leaving a job I love it I have to go back to the office. My husband and worries I am becoming a border line agoraphobic if I absolutely have to I will go out but if there is no need I won't.
Honestly I believe we are opening too quickly and relaxing mask and distancing. At least in my area too many covididiots. I also worry about the variants. Sooner or later we will find a variant that the vaccine can't protect. We keep moving up the goal post just so wall street and comport America can get their way? The rich can protect themselves easier than working class. They get better healthcare.
Sorry on tablet .
brooklynite
(94,559 posts)Personally, I'll go with the science experts.
beaglelover
(3,484 posts)I'm fully vaccinated and will not wear a mask any longer unless it is required by the particular establishment I am patronizing.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)Now they can just claimed they are vaccinated.
Native
(5,942 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)BGBD
(3,282 posts)They just didn't wear one and most places I've been to didn't make them.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Now they will all just lie and act like they are part of the vaccinated.
BGBD
(3,282 posts)But never were.
I went in a wal mart last week it might have been 40% masked.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)Bev54
(10,052 posts)but just tested positive. He is a-symptomatic but can still give it to someone else. It is those not vaccinated that should be worried because those who are vaccinated can still spread it.
PortTack
(32,767 posts)Without a mask, but I dont. I will continue to wear a masK, will not be going to restaurants or other crowded places where many will now not be masked.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Demobrat
(8,977 posts)but local businesses still require masks so really not much is different. If I still need it on public transportation and in stores, salons and restaurants I still need it.
The biggest difference is I can ride in a car with other unvaccinated people. Thats nice.
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)The CDC guidelines - are only just guidelines.
Don't let anyone else tell you what makes YOU feel safe and what makes YOU feel comfortable. I'm fully vaccinated and yet I still wear a mask when I go to places like grocery stores, gas stations and restaurants. When I walk my dog on my street or cut my grass, I don't have to wear a mask. When I'm around people I don't know, I will still wear one.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)LisaL
(44,973 posts)There are still bunch of un-vaccinated people running around. I don't trust them at all to tell the truth about their vaccination status.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)That is what the science is saying.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)You are not protected a 100 %. Some people have died after being fully vaccinated.
BigmanPigman
(51,591 posts)of not getting infected after both shots. If you do get infected you are likely only getting a very mild case.
I think I'll wear mine as a political statement if I feel the situation is appropriate since I drew/wrote "tRump" inside of a red circle with a red slash through his name on 3 of my original, white N95 masks. I live in a blue area and everyone likes it, even my doctors.
Big Blue Marble
(5,080 posts)95% change of getting infected would keep many of us at home
!https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-first-nationwide-data-from-israel-shows-95-protection-from-infection-after-two-doses-of-pfizer-jab-12298002
BigmanPigman
(51,591 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)shots also get breakthrough infections. No vaccine is 100% effective. But if you are fully vaccinated your chance of getting a breakthrough infection is so low that you would be more likely to have any number of other things happen to you first. If you are afraid of something that insignificant then you had better stay at hone at all times hiding under your bed,
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)That is coming close to one in a million chance.
Those odds are no reason to keep changing our lifestyle if vaccinated. If they were none of us would drive a vehicle.
I_UndergroundPanther
(12,470 posts)And I think some of the things are opening too soon too.
It's because we got a damn republican as governor.
I never trusted hogan to care about the poorer and working people.
And obviously he listens to business owners at the expense of everyone else. Because he's a godamn republican.
I hope Maryland tosses out all republicans in power to the curb next voting cycle.
But sadly business people and skaredy magats and fundie people will keep voting for fucking republicans.
48656c6c6f20
(7,638 posts)I will wear a mask even though I am a Pfizer alumni 2021 as of yesterday. It's been a long haul. I need to find my humans again and be part of life.
Grasswire2
(13,569 posts)Blue_playwright
(1,568 posts)I'm going to continue to wear mine (I work in a restaurant) and hope that the rest of the relaxing of preventative measures doesn't bite us in the ass. But I think it will.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)will bite us in the ass? Are you anti-science?
Blue_playwright
(1,568 posts)And I know my state. They didnt want to wear them to begin with.
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)aerosolized particles (a year after that scientific reality was well established)?
The same CDC that said people shouldn't wear masks months after we knew they were protective?
The same CDC that said masks did not provide protection for the wearer months after we knew they did?
The CDC does not have a good record about being right as ot aerosolized transmission and - in every instance - has erred on the wrong side (that more likely to promote transmission than to prevent it).
HUAJIAO
(2,385 posts)In much of the US infection rates are still considerably higher than the same time last year. They are pretty low in my county in Up-State NY, but still 8-10 times higher than May of last year when the county of 110,000 had only 1-2-3 per day.. As you mention, CDC was saying masks were not important last year.. Did they ever hear of, oh say, TAIWAN !!! Singapore!! Hong Kong??? DUH!!!!
I spent hours and hours and days last year studying the science of it all on my own, still do quite a bit...I had 3M N95 masks ready to go a couple months before the 'shutdown last March. So I'm with you. I take the CDC with a grain of salt.
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)But I had already started making (and wearing) masks - based on the scientific research I had done by early March of last year.
I've been right on COVID issues pretty darn close to 100% of the time. The day before our university shut down I was desperately trying to convince our department's administration to take this seriously. They pretty much laughed me out of the room. Then, less than 24 hours later . . .
The CDC - not so much.
HUAJIAO
(2,385 posts)I hope we don't get stomped for "not believing the science."
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)I just tell them to go search what I was saying here, when I said it. In fact I've been stomped within the last few days when I said the CDC was late to the game as to transmission by aerosolized matter.
I'll put my public record up against the CDC as to COVID transmission, rate of infection growth, etc. any day.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)That last graph...
Bahahahahahahahahahaha
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)You won't be able to because as to transmission of COVID I have a near perfect record, and the CDC's record has been flat out wrong.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)Nitpick the phrasing.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)Youve said you know more about the virus than epidemiologists and others at the CDC.
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)Including, but not limited to:
The growth rate (including specific predictions as to when infections would reach certain levels)
Masks prevent transmission
Masks protect the wearer, not just those around the wearer
COVID transmits as aerosolized matter
COVID can be transmitted by asymptomatic individuals
The vaccines not only prevent severe disease but also prevent infection and transmission.
I have been anything but silent on COVID 19, so there's a significant record here. On each of these points (and I'm sure others I've forgotten) I've been right and the CDC has been either wrong (e.g.masks prevent transmission), or significantly later than I have been (e.g. aerosolized transmission).
I am not claiming to be an expert. I am claiming that I have been correct as to virtually every statement I have made about the transmisson of COVID 19 - and the CDC has been wrong, or enough later that it likely contributed to the development of dangerous behavior. It doesn't take being an expert. It takes paying attention to peer-reviewed literature (when it is available), reading the research from multiple sources that is too early to be peer-reviewed, a basic knowledge of mathematics and science, and a healthy dose of skepticism about new pronouncements by an agency which has (repeatedly) proven itself wrong or late to the game
Sympthsical
(9,073 posts)This whole, "Are you against science?!" angle of attack. Jesus.
I trust science that hasn't fucked up as much as the CDC has during all this.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)Of course he also loves Trump, thinks Fauci is a crook and a liar and doesnt trust the government either.
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)and backed by science (unlike most trump lover's).
I trust the science. Anyone who blindly trusts the government after they have been wrong on virtually every pronouncement during the pandemic on transmission - including during the Biden administration (by failure to correct prior misstatements for more than 3 months).
Shame on you for suggesting that those of us who actually do trust the science, do our own science-based research, and have a proven track record on things the CDC has gotten wrong are like your Trump-loving dad because we are calling out specific pronouncements that are inconsistent with what we currently know about transmission and risk.
BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)Except when I think I have some special insight no one else has...
Ms. Toad
(34,070 posts)Just scientific research in peer-reviewed and medical literature.
The CDC's pronouncements have been, and continue to be, influenced by politics. In this instance, the driving force seems to be rewarding those who have been vaccinated, without regard to the impact this decision has on the number of breakthrough cases encouraging abandonment of masks will cause, or the impact this decision will have on the risks posed for individuals who cannot be vaccinated (under 12, those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons) or those who cannot develop imunity even though they are vaccinated (people who are immune compromised, for example).
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)expect at least 6 more months?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/13/upshot/epidemiologists-coronavirus-masks.html
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)If the science says that fully vaccinated people can be safely maskless then that's good enough for me. If a new variant comes along that is not affected by the current vaccines we can revisit the guidelines, but for the time being studies are showing that the major vaccines are effective against the variants we know of. But of course you are free to continue to wear a mask even if you are fully vaccinated if that is your choice. And yes there are a lot of covididiots, but remember that people who are not fully vaccinated yet must continue to wear masks,
PA_jen
(1,114 posts)totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)Your chances of catching it from them even if they are maskless are nil. And even if you did catch it because you are fully vaccinated you are virtually 100% protected from a severe case or death. If you deny the veracity of this science then you are as bad as right wing science deniers.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)Basically now the anti vaccine people will blend in with everyone else
Before ending the mask mandate it was easy to tell who the idiots were
Rebl2
(13,507 posts)babylonsister
(171,065 posts)on people like us to be extra-cautious. Hopefully we're weeding the covidiots out.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)People with colds or flu should wear masks from now on. Japan has been way ahead of us on mask wearing.
Of course they have had terrible air quality in the past.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)oregonjen
(3,337 posts)Its so puzzling to watch NHK news and see the atrocious rollout. The citizens are getting fed up with their government and I dont blame them.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)They seemed to depend on their healthcare system, which in normal time may be great. But cant handle the entire population in a short period of time.
The US, using our typical ingenuity has far outperform most other nations. I think most European countries have less than 25% of their population even having one dose.
Quakerfriend
(5,450 posts)Indian immunologists say that they think rapidly spreading variant 1617 is more virulent AND the vaccines do not protect against it. Right now, ~ 28% of all cases in India are believed to be due to this variant. We only stopped in coming flights from India last week. 🙄
Trueblue1968
(17,218 posts)i think it's too soon.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Since CDC says we don't need masks, why shouldn't I protect myself and be comfortable?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)liberal_mama
(1,495 posts)HUAJIAO
(2,385 posts)Last edited Fri May 14, 2021, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)
a valved mask will protect you but NOT others...
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Since people won't be wearing masks, I want to protect myself.
HUAJIAO
(2,385 posts)marye50
(19 posts)We are both vaccinated but my husband is ESRD and will need dialysis/kidney transplant.
TomSlick
(11,098 posts)My wife and I am both in good health (for old folks) but we are in an area with a low vaccination rate and a high Trumpster rate. I've been too careful too long to blow it now.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(107,985 posts)According to the CDC I can go mask free in 12 days but what's to prevent others who haven't been vaccinated from not following their guidelines? How is this enforced?
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)magicarpet
(14,150 posts)They categorically refuse masks, social distancing, or any vaccine, and remain believing the pandemic is a hoax.
Once the vaccinated crowd lowers their guard, that will be a signal to the Covidiot group to unleash and party hearty.
The summer of 2021 will be the Covidiots chance to kick off their shoes,... mix and mingle with all their friends, and make up for lost party hearty times that were on hold or cancelled due to the pandemic.
Right wing nut jobs and the alpha macho man crowd are going to get pounded by the Coronavirus real bad this coming summer and fall.
Stand back,... wish them well,... look upon it as 2022 & 2024 fascist, white supremacist, and Christian Nazis voter suppression.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Now I can be with vaccinated family and friends without a mask. Ill still avoid crowds or places where people are unlikely to have gotten the jab but other than that, Im happy with the CDC today.
Evolve Dammit
(16,733 posts)ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)beaglelover
(3,484 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)yes indeed
ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)But then, Dr Fauci agrees. Still, Im not changing anything the mask stays ON for me.
bucolic_frolic
(43,161 posts)The illness is treated well now, even in severe cases. We have no choice but to join the optimism and move forward to as much normal as we can grab.
If there are variants, we'll deal with them when it happens. It's a sad pandemic. We wanted to save everyone and prevent suffering. Life doesn't always work that way.
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,231 posts)Idiots who are not vaccinated can just catch the virus and suffer the consequences of their stupidity.
Link to tweet
Quakerfriend
(5,450 posts)FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines both require 2 shots, but you're 95% or higher immunity. These guys who got the J&J knew the risk, that they could still get sick.
So the good news is that they are asymptomatic and their Covid infection is (so far) minimal and they probably won't have to go to a hospital. The men are young, healthy and in good physical shape, and we're hoping they will be OK.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)Not that it entirely prevents all infection
IronLionZion
(45,442 posts)because it will be milder than if they were not vaccinated
moondust
(19,981 posts)Last edited Thu May 13, 2021, 11:58 PM - Edit history (2)
Even after full vax you can still get the virus as happened to members of that baseball team. And even if asymptomatic I assume you can still transmit it to kids and others who may not be vaxxed.
Sanjay Gupta just addressed this with Don Lemon. He said the chances of someone fully vaccinated getting infected and then transmitting it are "really, really low" due to having a very low viral load.
Oh yeah, what about India variants?
~
Earlier, Prime Minister Boris Johnson did not rule out reintroducing regional restrictions, saying: "It is a variant of concern, we are anxious about it."
~
Indian variant: Next steps considered amid India variant concern
Raftergirl
(1,285 posts)and I cant be worried about what the antimaskers/antivacxxers do anymore. If they dont care if the get sick or worse, Im certainly not going to waste the bandwidth to care.
Im protected as much as any vaccine can protect one, and Ill continue taking the precautions I feel are necessary to stay healthy.
Im also fortunate that I live in a high vax area and everyone I know is vaccinated (friends and family) and would only go unmasked around them. I also dont expect most businesses here will be getting rid of their mask requirement anytime soon.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)100 million fully vaccinated Americans. Less than 10 thousand breakthrough cases. That a one in 10,000 chance. Less than 150 deaths. That approaching one in a million.
Unless the data changes it would be dishonest to tell fully vaccinated people they need to keep living this crazy life we have been. And politically devastating.
If you are fully vaccinated and still afraid to go out you really should not drive a vehicle. Because the data proves it more dangerous than dying from Covid.
I dont really care if people keep wearing masks. I expect about 5-10% of Americans will well after Covid is gone. Fine by me. Hell, I might in flu season.
But I wont be one of them.
If the data changes so will my decisions. But the main reason I like DU is because it is normally a science based site. Current science does not justify mask mandates for vaccinated people.
The unvaccinated? They will keep dying and getting sick. A year ago that would have bothered me. Today I could give a fuck.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Im starting to realize that.
Here in Florida we have no mask mandates. If you are unvaccinated and go out anywhere you will be around unmasked people. Have for months and months. So the only thing that changes is that fully vaccinated people dont have to mask if they have been responsible enough to follow CDC guidelines. Which the wife and I have religiously. Unfortunately many dont and the state does nothing to stop them. Nor penalize businesses that dont require it.
I can see how Blue states it could be a different kettle of fish. And people will have different perceptions on this issue.
Nevertheless, I fully expect quite a few states will never get much above 50% vaccinated. Even 5 months from now.
Have a good weekend.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)This new guideline from the CDC is for fully vaccinated people.
questionseverything
(9,654 posts)Which will lead to more live virus so even though children are masked more will get sick this way
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)I repeat. This only applies to fully vaccinated people. Unvaccinated people are still required to wear a mask. Of course not all will but that has always been the case.
StarryNite
(9,444 posts)I'm in no hurry to eat in restaurants and still don't intend to be in crowds. Time will tell how this works out.
TomDaisy
(1,870 posts)Demobrat
(8,977 posts)for the space they would take up in hospitals and the extra work they would create for doctors and nurses. Health care workers deserve a break.
If they would just stay home when they got sick they could just all cough on each other for all I care.
it is AMAZING now many people leave front line workers out of the equation when referring to KARMA for the unvaccinated
TNNurse
(6,926 posts)TN had very few mask mandates. Our idiot governor left it up to cities and counties and they punted.
I will change my behavior some, but in stores, restaurants until I get my food, I will continue to wear a mask.
TomDaisy
(1,870 posts)I'm not going into any situation where there's a packed crowd.
Will fly because I have to but we should all be masked on a plane.
If people aren't masked at stores, I'll be shopping very early or very late when few people are there.
marble falls
(57,081 posts)former9thward
(32,006 posts)If you do not wish to follow the science that is fine, wear a mask until the end of life. Up to you. But no mask for me and others who follow the science.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)former9thward
(32,006 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)But Im not surprised.
Just weird to see so many people here who for a year have preached follow the science suddenly rejecting it.
As you know, data tells us that if vaccinated you have just under one and a million chance of dying of Covid. There is no justification for the government to have mask mandates with those odds. Otherwise we could not drive!
And politically it will kill us!
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The CDC is making a good call based on the data we have. Just under one a million chance of dying of Covid if you are vaccinated based on the data of 100 million Americans who are vaccinated. 100 million vaccinated, less than 150 deaths among them.
Ive got no problem with people who decide to continue wearing masks. I may during a big flu outbreak.
But the facts dont support continued government dictates or even recommendations for vaccinated people to wear masks.
Of course people who choose to continue to have every right.
Fully vaccinated peoples decision not to mask now is no longer a sign of being an anti-science nut.
Ive worn the damn thing religiously for over a year. As Ive watched the data over the past 2 months Im not surprised by this decision. And welcome it.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)I will follow the advice of the experts.
If some place I visit requires a mask I will wear one. Other than that, i have two does of the Moderna....
Solomon
(12,310 posts)Some of us are old with serious health issues like copd and heart disease. I wouldn't want even a mild case of covid. It's not fair for you to imply that wearing a mask is not following science. It is, because science says you can still get infected even if vaccinated.
mgardener
(1,816 posts)I live in NY state.
I wonder what Cuomo will do. He already stated that COVID vaccine will be required for SUNY colleges.
Risk for getting COVID in my county was just downgraded from Very high to high today.
mgardener
(1,816 posts)I live in NY state.
I wonder what Cuomo will do. He already stated that COVID vaccine will be required for SUNY colleges.
Risk for getting COVID in my county was just downgraded from Very high to high today.
Ford_Prefect
(7,897 posts)I think what they have said is probably true, for now.
However there is not enough data regarding the evolution of the disease elsewhere. Some of the identified variants seem to be resisted by current vaccines so far.
I've read that the long-term concern is that it will morph into a form that will bypass our current vaccines and we will then need an improved or even different version, if that indeed will be enough.
I agree with several of you that the anti-mask, anti-vax crowd will not comply and will fake it when they can. I've heard some disturbing commentary while waiting to check out at the grocery or shopping in the hardware store. More to the point is that they will keep the disease alive among us, and they will require care, or burial, or both. That will consume not only medical resources and time, but it will also damage my town, and this valley, and this part of the state I live in. It will also feed the terrible culture war that Trump, the GOP, Koch et al, and FOX have visited upon us.
I think we need a very different approach to it all. When I was a child we got the SALK vaccine and I remember going to the public school to get it along with my family so that everyone would be safe. I'm not a political strategist and right now I don't give a damn about politics as such. This is a national emergency on a scale with war and famine. Why the fuck isn't that our approach?
Bmoboy
(270 posts)any future setback, variant, breakout, surge and the "all clear" announcement will be on spin repeat.
Our problem is we let politicians run our political system.
Maybe we shouldn't run things politically.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)We can only use the data we have. Not fears about what might happen.
If you are vaccinated you have just under a one in a million chance of dying. 100 million fully vaccinated Americans. Less than 150 deaths.
With those numbers it would be dishonest to tell vaccinated people to keep living like we have been for the past year.
If someone chooses to, good for them. No problem with it. But science does not dictate mandatory usage.
Marcuse
(7,480 posts)speaknow
(321 posts)Because of the them moving slow, people that
got fully vaccinated started wondering if the
vaccine work at all. People got vaccinated so they
don't wear a mask can visit family and friends, and
didn't want to get sick or worse.
People that don't get vaccinated and lie that's
there choice and that choice can become deadly
for them.
MLAA
(17,289 posts)Im stilling wearing a mask to show Im not a Republican!
ecstatic
(32,704 posts)When you really think about it, unless you're wearing an N95, is your mask really doing much?
My point is, the masks kind of feel like a security blanket and now the CDC has abruptly snatched them away like a used Band-Aid. But maybe it is time to rip the masks off and move forward. To get on with life. Maybe it will be okay. I never once donned a mask during the swine flu outbreak. Hell, I went on a cruise that year.
Maybe the unspoken part of the CDC's announcement is that the risk level now is similar to what it usually is with regard to flus and other outbreaks. Some people are more vulnerable than others, obviously.
If or when I decide to go maskless, I will feel pretty vulnerable at first. It will take some getting used to, just like it took time to get used to going out with the mask on. I will miss the ability to walk around almost completely incognito. The masks make it easier to make quick trips to the store without getting dolled up.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)The CDC is not preventing anyone who wants to wear a mask from doing so. And if you will miss some of the aspects of wearing a mask, just don't stop wearing one. It's not rocket science.
blogslug
(38,000 posts)We had a full year to acclimate to mask-wearing, social distancing and WFH. Long enough for practice to become habit. Take your time. You are here and whatever you've been doing, that's what got you here.
BobTheSubgenius
(11,563 posts)We've stuck it out this long - what's another couple of months to make sure the job's done right?
Polybius
(15,411 posts)Masks not only help to prevent Covid, but also colds, the flu, and a host of other bad things you can catch without wearing one.
beaglelover
(3,484 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,387 posts)They dont.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)If not, your opinion doesnt hold much weignt.
People can choose to do what they want here, but we either trust the experts or we dont.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)people are protected from contracting the virus about 97% of the time. And on the very slim chance that you do get it the vaccine will prevent serious illness and death virtually 100% of the time. So why would a vaccinated person need a mask? I think you are peddling in fear mongering.