General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPoll: Covid-19 came from a lab leak in Wuhan or from bats like Mers and Sars did?
trumpers and other republicans are pushing the lab leak, which is possible, over the more probably precedent to prove trump was right in spreading anti-Asian slurs.
What's your take on it.
22 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Bats or other animal? | |
9 (41%) |
|
Wuhan lab? | |
10 (45%) |
|
Dr. Fauci? | |
0 (0%) |
|
Democrats? | |
0 (0%) |
|
Other? | |
3 (14%) |
|
0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
jpak
(41,770 posts)ornotna
(10,866 posts)boston bean
(36,245 posts)Sickening millions.
Crunchy Frog
(26,752 posts)The people doing the investigating need to keep political agendas out and only focus on finding the truth, whatever it is.
exboyfil
(17,880 posts)His response was pathetic. On the other hand origin matters a lot in preventing future outbreak. It is quite a coincidence that the lab was located at the origin location.
WarGamer
(12,851 posts)I believe we'll find a Wuhan to Milan first transmission, then to the West Coast, USA... etc, etc...
LisaL
(45,037 posts)Lab was studying bat viruses. One could have escaped accidentally, but either way it originated in bats.
womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)a little different than just studying them. Actually Dr. Barik of UNC and the director of the Chinese lab wrote a paper together.
WarGamer
(12,851 posts)womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)Including .....the main gain of function UNC guy himself ... Dr. Ralph S.Barik.
WarGamer
(12,851 posts)That's what Science says.
We don't know... yet.
DURHAM D
(32,634 posts)We don't know yet. Actually we may never know - like ebola.
brush
(54,513 posts)There's a lot to learn from DU polls, and lot to learn about DUers.
DURHAM D
(32,634 posts)about the origin at this point. We can only learn their "opinions". An opinion right now is based on conspiracy theories. Take it to the Q.
brush
(54,513 posts)You seem to have dodged that question.
gopiscrap
(23,821 posts)his people created it so that he could "save" the US from it, but fucked up (sarcasm intended)
brush
(54,513 posts)RegularJam
(914 posts)Meowmee
(5,164 posts)It originated from bats then most likely jumped to another animal first. It seems unlikely to me that it was a lab leak. Of course it should all be investigated. As I recall none of the people at the lab who became ill tested pos for sars cov 2 / covid 19.
womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)Zero - so now they are looking to the lab
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)The dna testing was revealed early on, and stated it was a bat origin virus originally. I read several articles/ excerpts about all of this early on. In addition, as I mentioned, no one from the lab was ever proven to have contracted sars cov2 / covid 19. Of course it should be investigated anyway imo.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)and I read about something I forgot about!
https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop
"The US stopped funding gain-of-function research. Then it started again."
..."in 2017, the government under the Trump administration released new guidelines for gain-of-function research, signaling an end to the blanket moratorium. And the news from 2019 suggests that dangerous projects are proceeding."
So how do we know the restarted viral research under Trump did't do this?
I'm not entirely kidding.
If we made a "bat" virus more lethal and then released it in Wuhan to hurt the Chinese and the rest of the world... in some badly planned attack, it would explain some of Trump's moves...
2017 Trump Admin restarts Viral Research
May 2018 The Trump Administration disbands the White House pandemic response team.
July 2019 The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) epidemiologist embedded in Chinas disease control agency left the post, and the Trump Administration eliminated the role.
Almost as possible as the virus escaping from the Wuhan lab.
Granted, it's more likely he just did is stupid incompetent routine, but anything is possible.
Also, remember there is evidence of the virus being in Europe months before the Wuhan outbreak!
EDIT: Oh My Gawd, I also remember a lot of people think they had a covid like virus in America long before it hit Wuhan!
Hmmmmm
womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)Because Ft Detrik had to close down around this time for breaches of security. It makes more sense that it accidentally escaped from the Wuhan Lab. I think the NIH is powerful and not going to listen to a president. When Obama stopped gain of function research in the US - all research was stopped except for Dr Barik at UNC because he held all the specimens. So - when the research was paused in US by Obama, EcoHealth Alliance funded the Wuhan lab so research could continue.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)Generic Brad
(14,284 posts)I am sure Trump only blamed the Chinese because they probably wouldn't give him money; not because he had evidence. If he stumbled on the actual cause as a result of corrupt bumbling, it only gives his supporters a continued rationale for acting out.
womanofthehills
(8,910 posts)People dont realize how closely our US scientists were working with the Wuhan scientists. Our Dr Ralph Barik and the director of the Wuhan lab wrote a research paper together.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)Klaralven
(7,510 posts)The 2019 Military World Games (Chinese: 2019年世界军人运动会; pinyin: 2019 Nián shìjiè jūnrén yùndònghuì), officially known as the 7th CISM Military World Games (Chinese: 第七届世界军人运动会; pinyin: Dì qī jiè shìjiè jūnrén yùndònghuì) and commonly known as Wuhan 2019, was held from October 1827, 2019 in Wuhan, Hubei, China.[2][3]
The 7th Military World Games was the first international military multi-sport event to be held in China and also the largest military sports event ever to be held in China, with nearly 10,000 athletes from over 100 countries competing in 27 sports.[4][5] The multi-sport event included 25 official and 2 demonstrative sports. Six sport disciplines such as badminton, tennis, table tennis, women's boxing and men's gymnastics made their debuts in the event.[6]
It was also the second biggest international sport event to be held in the year 2019 in China after hosting the 2019 FIBA Basketball World Cup. The Games were organized by the Military Sports Commission of China, Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China and the military commands (Army in accordance with CISM regulations and the rules of the International Sports Federations.[7] For the first time in the history of the Military World Games, an Olympic village was set up for the athletes prior to the commencement of the Games.[8] The village was officially opened for the athletes following the flag-raising ceremony.[9]
Host nation China sent a delegation consisting of 553 participants for the games, which marked the record number of participants to represent a nation at a single Military World Games.[10] Around 230,000 volunteers were recruited for the event to be staged in China.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games
Mosby
(16,562 posts)greenjar_01
(6,477 posts)Let's have an opinion poll on this question of scientific fact.
LiberalFighter
(52,121 posts)mvd
(65,202 posts)Now I think it is looking more like lab, but as long as experts like Fauci remain skeptical, the bat theory will be very viable in my opinion.
roamer65
(36,752 posts)It will always be conjecture just like the theories of where 1918 flu virus originated are now.
I know one thing that is a solid fact.
GET VACCINATED.
vanlassie
(5,732 posts)Opinions on science are what the Republicans encourage their dumb followers to embrace. Asking what our take is is asking our opinion, and we know the facts are not in yet.... right?
Rstrstx
(1,409 posts)I can envision a number:
1) natural occurrence, somehow jumped from bats to an intermediate to humans in Wuhan or somewhere in the general vicinity
2) natural occurrence, lingered for years around Mojiang where its most similar relative was discovered in 2012/13 and it slowly or suddenly mutated to SARS-Cov2, makes a jump to human(s) who then travel to Wuhan in 2019
2a) same as 2 but it somehow evolves in the body of a human without an intermediate host (it had about 7 years to do this). I believe the Mojiang Miners Passage hypothesis is similar to this but could be wrong.
3) similar to #2 but nobody traveled to Wuhan and instead samples were sent from Mojiang to WIV after abnormally high numbers of sick people start popping up in the area. Upon arrival or while being studied it escapes from the lab
3a) the person who delivered the samples from Mojiang to Wuhan was unknowingly infected
4) samples from Mojiang or other undisclosed strains were being studied using Gain-of-function experiments, lab accident occurs and it escapes
5) similar to 4 except it is intentionally released by a rogue mad scientist instead of accidentally escaping
5a) it is released with the blessing of the Chinese government
6) virus from Mojiang is intentionally redesigned as a bio-weapon and released in Wuhan, again either by a rogue element or as a government effort
7) the Chinese government version: Americans got ahold of Mojiang virus, turn it into a bio weapon and intentionally release it at Wuhan Olympic Games or some other event in order to make China look bad, or something
To me the first 3 or 4 are the most likely scenarios, 5-7 go against Hanlons razor (never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity) and are probably not the cause, at least not IMO. And explanations 6 and 7 have been pretty much ruled out by scientists, it has none of the signatures a bio-weapon would have.
Explanations 3 and 4 require a certain degree of incompetence on the part of the Chinese government or the WIV and would go a long ways towards explaining why the Chinese are being less than cooperative. If someone at the lab or higher up effed up theyve probably decided that its best if it could just be swept under the rug, lest the country might be on the hook for potentially exorbitant penalties or retribution.
To further bolster this idea is that the government has thrown up roadblocks at every step of the way, and at times literally: last year a broken down van on the road to Mojiang was placed in the road mere minutes before a crew from the BBC was trying to get to the area to do a story. (So sorry about that guys, Im afraid the road is closed today. Pity you cant continue on).
These kinds of frustrating little incidents are why were hearing calls for a real investigation, the Chinese government just isnt being transparent about some of the most important details and it gives the distinct impression theyre hiding something. Do I think they released the virus on purpose? No, at least not at an organized level. Do I think this is somehow the result of someone just screwing up at some point? Possibly, maybe even likely. Incompetence is far more likely than malevolence. The Trump administration had political reasons to point the finger to China since they were in a difficult re-election campaign and jumped on to any reason to deflect blame from their ineptness.
Will we ever know the real answer? Thats a good question, if the Chinese ever fully cooperate Id say yes. If they dont, are there techniques good enough to come to a conclusion with a high degree of certainty? That I dont know, but Id be willing to bet the farm intelligence agencies around the world are working on how to find an answer without the help of the Chinese government, using everything from forensics to quietly trying to contact inside people who might know something. I suspect well have a pretty good idea of what went down within the next few years. Expect absolutely zero shock if it turns out that this whole tragedy was largely due to mistakes, incompetence and ineptness at many, many turns along the way from many people and institutions in many places.
Oh and about those reports of it being present in Europe much earlier: I believe this has been attributed to bad sampling, the confidence level is extremely high that this came from a virus with origins in the caves of southern China. To see it mysteriously appear out of the blue in Europe first makes absolutely no sense at all. If I didnt know any better Id say someone is trying to lead you down a rabbit hole.