Police: Man who shot Colorado gunman was killed by officer

[In It to Win It]

AP via Yahoo News

DENVER (AP) — A man who intervened in a shooting that killed a police officer near Denver was shot and killed by a responding officer while holding the suspect's AR-15, police said Friday.

Johnny Hurley, who has been described by police as a hero who prevented further bloodshed, shot suspect Ronald Troyke on Monday after Troyke gunned down Arvada Officer Gordon Beesley with a 12-gauge semi-automatic shotgun.

After shooting Beesley twice, Troyke shot out the windows of police cars in the city's downtown district, returned to his truck to get an AR-15 and was confronted by Hurley, who shot him with a handgun. When an officer arrived, Hurley was holding Troyke's AR-15 and the officer opened fire, police said.

[WarGamer]

1. Police are TOO QUICK on the trigger, period.

Congrat's slick... you killed a hero.

Next of kin will own City Hall.

[3Hotdogs]

3. His survivors will never collect.

Even I believe the cops action was reasonable. Sad, but not unreasonable.


Reminds me of the shooting in the Colorado theater. A guy was in the theater, armed. He said he didn’t try to take out his gun and return fire because cops would not be able to differentiate between him and the shooter.

So much for good guy with a gun, Wayne.

[WarGamer]

8. That's just your emotions talking, with all due respect.

Perp took the AR-15 out of the car after killing cop with shotgun... wanted to kill MORE cops, that's what his note said.

Hero killed his ass before he could hurt anyone else with the AR-15. Hero took him down with a handgun... some people think that can't be done lol...

Hero got killed because of mis-ID.

Did cop identify himself? Order Hero to drop rifle?

I'll bet there's a large settlement.

[3Hotdogs]

13. First comes the call from cop assassins brother. Cops are probably now on alert.

Cop is killed.

Hero kills cop with pistol. Of course that is possible but not relevant to a civil award.

2nd cop arrives as backup. Since he is there as backup, can we assume he did not walk to the scene in plain clothes? Identification as cop, not necessary.

What is not clear to me, what information was the back-up cop given by dispatch? Did someone in the neighborhood report gunfire? Did the backup arrive at the scene and find his colleague on the ground? What state of mind was the 2nd cop in?

The key to a civil award is in what information the 2nd cop had before arriving at the scene. Arriving at the scene and finding someone with an AR in his hands, any cop's instinct is to protect himself.

Notice that Hurley's family's first response is to praise their family member and not blame the 2nd cop.

Unrelated to the topic: Open carry bullshit is gonna lead to more of these incidents of a cop being called to a scene and seeing someone holding such a weapon.

[gldstwmn]

19. He was concealed carrying.

[gldstwmn]

14. He has handcuffed and

left to bleed out on the pavement for 40 minutes. His relatives are being buttered up as we speak. If he was holding the shooter's AR why didn't they show that in the video? They're giving the cop a chance to get out of town. The cops story doesn't jibe with that of eye witnesses. And no body cameras in Arvada. This is the second shooter in six months with an AR the first being the Boulder grocery store shooter.

[Timewas]

2. First rule

Do not eb armed when the police arrive...Period, they are not going to ask questions or tell you to "drop it" they are going to shoot you

[WarGamer]

9. After the trauma of seeing a man with a gun and being forced to kill him...

I'm sure Hero wasn't thinking clearly.

[gldstwmn]

15. Except that's what they are supposed to do.

[Grokenstein]

4. Won't matter to the NRA.

Their motto remains unchanged: "The answer is always 'more guns.'"

[gldstwmn]

16. They've been highly successful in Arvada.

[USALiberal]

5. So the police shot a good guy with a gun? Nt

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Kind of predictable. How are the police supposed to distinguish a shooter from

a hero carrying a gun?

I think the real lesson is that the more guns there are in our society, the more deadly violence there's going to be. Armed wanna be heroes aren't going to change that equation.

[WarGamer]

10. Cops are supposed to ID and order to drop gun

ESPECIALLY if the guy is NOT aiming the gun at them.

Fast trigger fingers.

[gldstwmn]

17. They've f'ed this up royally.

And now they're trying to cover it up.

[WarGamer]

24. Unlike many... I Have no problems with cops using deadly force

WHEN their lives or the lives of others are threatened.

But there has to be a threat. Driving away in a car is not a threat (at that moment)

Carrying a rifle is not a threat (at that moment)

Running away from a cop is not a threat (at that moment)

[Kaleva]

29. And civilians who are armed are supposed to know what to do also.

A comment you made earlier:

"After the trauma of seeing a man with a gun and being forced to kill him...

I'm sure Hero wasn't thinking clearly."

Emphasis mine.

The purpose of training is so one doesn't have to think while in a high stress situation because, as you said, people don't think clearly and bad things can happen as in this case.


Picking up the AR15 was a bad move and indicative of a lack of proper training on what to do after a shooting. His killing of the bad guy suggests he spent time on the range practicing drawing his weapon and shooting but picking up the AR15 leads me to believe he had no training on what to do after firing his weapon.

Below is what I believe is the proper response that is commonly taught:

"3. INITIATE EMERGENCY RESPONSE: From a safe position or location, call 911. Request emergency medical services if they are needed for you, the suspect or others. Describe what you are wearing, and let the dispatcher know you will not have your weapon in your hand when the officers arrive. Tell the 911 operator something similar to, "I had to use the weapon in self-defense," "I was forced to defend myself," "I was in fear for my life," or "I was attacked." Do not give a detailed account of the incident. This is not the time.

4. PREPARE FOR RESPONDING OFFICERS: When you see police cars or officers getting close, or hear their sirens, holster your weapon. Officers responding to a shooting incident often have a heightened level of concern for their safety, so be prepared to follow their directions. Raise your empty hands above your head with the palms face forward, and listen to their commands. They will disarm you and may handcuff you."

https://ccwsafe.com/blog/what-next--what-to-do-after-a-self-defense-shooting

"You have to remember a person holding a gun is an imminent threat, before any questioning or explanations can begin, police officers will and must remove that threat. If you are holding a gun and refuse to put it down, you may get shot. And the officer would be justified in doing so based on the totality of circumstances and the information that officer had at the time. So, in the unlikely event that you are involved in a shooting, please do what the officers tell you as they secure the scene."

https://gundigest.com/gun-reviews/after-the-shooting-do-what-the-police-say

"10 things you should NEVER do after a self defense shooting

Have your gun in your hand when the police arrive. Police will be responding to a "man with a gun" or "shots fired" call and won't know who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. They will view anyone holding a gun as a threat and will deal with you as such. In short, reholster your gun or set it down if you don't want to get shot."

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/10-things-you-should-never-do-after-self-defense-shooting

While I have a handgun and CPL, I only need the CPL to make it more convenient to transport my weapon to and from the local shooting range. I do not carry off my property as I know I don't have the level of training I feel is needed to do so competently and I don't have the time or desire to achieve that level of training which is much, much more then putting rounds on target. I have general knowledge but not the time or desire to do the repetitive training needed to use that knowledge instinctively.

Police will arrive at an active shooting scene jacked up and will view anyone with a gun in their hand as an immediate threat so it is imperative that a civilian who chooses to carry in public to train on what to do after a shooting to lessen the chance of being viewed as a perp with a gun and end up getting shot themselves.

I'd be very interested to hear on what you were taught and how you train on how to act after a shooting incident.

[Elessar Zappa]

42. Cops should never shoot

unless there’s an immediate threat to life, like a gun pointing at them. Someone carrying a rifle is not a valid reason to kill someone. This cop is fucked and rightfully so.

[Kaleva]

43. The guy very likely would still be alive if he had the proper training.

He didn't follow the procedures recommend by most every reputable expert on the use of guns for self defense.

Can you cite a single source which advocates doing what he supposedly did?

[Straw Man]

28. The hero with the gun ...

... is the person that isn't shooting at them with it. Pretty easy.

This man was not a "wanna be hero." He actually stopped the active shooter. The cops fucked up by firing too soon. Unless the person is shooting, they're supposed to identify themselves and tell him to drop the weapon.

[MagickMuffin]

7. Never be holding a weapon when you hear or see enforcers

They have no clue if you are being heroic or are the perpetrator.

Sorry Johnny who didn't deserve to die, but never ever be holding a gun of any kind.

[WarGamer]

11. After the shooting, is it easy to think clearly and remember the rules?

[gldstwmn]

18. He shot the perp because there

weren't cops there yet. He literally saved them

[gldstwmn]

20. Except it was perfectly legal for

him to have a gun because he had a concealed carry permit.

[Straw Man]

12. Despite being the hero and all ...

... you never ever want to be armed when the police get there. Put the gun down before they arrive. Follow all their commands to the letter -- you can sort it out later. They teach this in self-defense classes. I wonder if Hurley had taken any.

Also, why did Hurley pick up the AR-15? That makes no sense, unless he thought there might be other gunmen.

It's sad that he was killed, but his actions almost certainly saved lives.

[gldstwmn]

21. I remain unconvinced

he was holding the AR. He had a concealed carry permit. He was not open carrying because open carry in Arvada would mean he would have to leave his handgun in his glove box . He knew better.

[YMB]

23. Most likely

he wanted to get it away from the shooter and/or make sure the weapon was clear and safe. Not the smartest thing to do when he could of just kicked it away or stepped on it, but then its hard to know what your brain is going to fully do when presented by a high stress situation.

[Ohio Joe]

22. Wait... WTF?

From the article:

In a separate statement, the Arvada Police Department said: “Finally, it is clear that the suspect bears responsibility for this tragic sequence of events.”

WTF? No, it is not clear at all. Certainly he has a lot since he started the whole mess but that does not absolve the cop who killed Hurley and for the Arvada PD to say such stinks of an attempt at coverup. Once someone starts a crime, the police are justified in doing whatever they feel like? Bullshit IMO. Lets see what this "team of other area law enforcement officers led by the district attorney’s office" finds but I'll bet the cop is cleared with little comment on what actually happened.

[WarGamer]

25. +1000 nt

[Kaleva]

31. What were you taught to do after a shooting incdient?

As a civilian, not as a police officer. Hurley screwed up by picking up the AR15 and I don't think his own training was up to par if he ever had any training. His actions go against what practically all reputable self defense organizations and experts teach. I'd be interested to hear what you were taught and how you train.

[Ohio Joe]

32. That does not address my post...

It simply excuses police killing the guy. Show me where the police tried even a little to do anything but kill Hurley? They released video right up to the real perp getting shot by Hurley then... Oh, no video... But trust us, we had to kill him. Police are not judge, jury and executioner and it is not ok to kill anyone not trained at a 'reputable self defense organization' (I expect NRA approved... No?).

Now... Care to address why we are expected to just take the word of the police that we don't need to see the video and they were completely justified? Based on what you said:

"Hurley screwed up by picking up the AR15 and I don't think his own training was up to par if he ever had any training"

You seem to agree it is his own fault he is dead and the police are innocent. Are you basing that entirely on the word of the police and you are good without the video?

[Kaleva]

34. Because your post doesn't address the fact the guy screwed up

And he's dead because of it.

Did your training teach you to do what he did?

[Ohio Joe]

35. My training says...

Don't believe the police when they hide video evidence. Besides the word of the police, how do you know what he did or did not do?

[Kaleva]

37. I'll ask again. What does your training say about what to do after a shooting?

Did your training even cover that? Have you had any training?

[Ohio Joe]

38. What does my training matter?

It does not, I was not there... Neither were you so your training does not matter either. Now... If we say... Knew what happened by seeing the video they have, it might. But since the police are hiding it, we can't know.

So... I'll ask again. Why are you taking the word of the police when they are hiding the video?

[Kaleva]

40. I'll take your inability to answer as an admission you have no knowledge about use of guns...

for self defense and you are just expressing an opinion.

[Ohio Joe]

41. That you do not like the answer does not mean you did not get one...

I also did not express any opinion, I simply do not believe what the police told me when they are hiding he video of what did happen. Unlike your complete avoidance of my question so... I'll take that lack as an admission you just believe whatever you are told to believe.

[Kaleva]

44. It's not against the rules here for you to advocate gun owners don't need training.

Although it would be a minority view and some here would label you as a gun humper or gun nut.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you know nothing about using guns for self defense and are expressing an opinion about the event which is fine to do as this is a discussion board.

[Ohio Joe]

46. hmmm... That is twice...

That you have attributed something to me I never said or claimed. Please do not do that. Because I do not buy the police's explanation on killing Hurley... Why should I when they are hiding the video... Does not in any way mean I advocate for no training... But you know that.

So... I'll try one last time. Why are you taking the word of the police when they are hiding the video? Annnd... I'll even add a bonus question for you to pretend is not being asked... Why are you not only not answering but trying to put words in my mouth to put the spin you want on what you want to believe happened instead of dealing with what we actually know?

[scarytomcat]

26. after he shot the bad guy he should have put his pistol on the ground

and stepped back from the scene then waited for the police

[Kaleva]

30. I'm unaware of any self defense training program that says to pick up the perp's gun

Lack of adequate training got this guy killed.

[LisaL]

33. We aren't requiring training in the US, do we?

NT

[scarytomcat]

36. I think it is common sense and general knowledge.

TV watching could teach people not to pick up the perp's gun, very dumb move

[hunter]

27. Once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

I've personally witnessed that too many times.

[ScratchCat]

39. And not one poster calling for murder charges

I'd say "unreal", but predictable.

Cop who fired must me charged with 1st degree murder. He has no legal justification. "I thought.." doesn't matter.

[Kaleva]

45. Probably because the guy screwed up

He supposedly did a move that most every reputable expert on the use of guns for self defense strongly advise gun owners not to do because it greatly raises the odds of being shot by LEO.