Macron's stick more effective than Biden's carrot.

[Jakes Progress]

How about announcing all interstate trade or transport requires vaccination? No stab; no airplane, no bus, no interstate truck. Any company that moves goods across state lines must require vaccination. All fines will be added to income tax.

You can't convince stupid people to do the right thing by cajoling. Go after their bank balance or their seat in a ball park and they will beg for the shot.

A record number of French people sought to book appointments for Covid-19 vaccinations on Monday night after President Emmanuel Macron announced a slew of measures designed to push sceptics to get themselves jabbed.

In an address to the nation, Macron announced that from next month anyone wanting to go out to eat or drink, take a long-distance train or visit a shopping centre will need to show either proof of vaccination or a negative test.

[link:https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210713-covid-19-jab-bookings-surge-in-france-as-macron-announces-new-restrictions-for-the-unvaccinated|

[elleng]

1. Oh right, and the Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) gets to enforce it, right???

(ICC 'disappeared' in 1995.) The ICC was abolished in 1995, and its remaining functions were transferred to the Surface Transportation Board. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Commerce_Commission

[Jakes Progress]

5. Show me where I mentioned the ICC.

The OP was about finding ways to increase vaccination rates. Begging them to do so has not worked. Telling them it is the right thing to do hasn't worked.

In France, it only took a few days to increase vaccination requests by millions.

What do you suggest?

[elleng]

6. YOU didn't; I did.

'announcing all interstate trade or transport requires vaccination?' 'Logical' to suggest now dead ICC would enforce; inside 'joke.' (I worked @ ICC for 20 years.)

[Jakes Progress]

18. That may be why ICC is on your mind.

It doesn't follow that it is on mine or that the ICC is the only way to do any of the things I mentioned.

Now. Can you reply to the essence of the OP? What suggestions do you offer to increase vaccination rates?

[elleng]

22. Your statement ' all interstate trade or transport' brings ICC, the Commerce Clause,' to mind.

[Jakes Progress]

28. To your mind.

[Orrex]

2. The "proof of vaccincation" horse has already sailed

During a recent trip to the local VA, a neighbor saw a stack of blank vaccination cards freely available to any who wanted one, and they can certainly be downloaded with ease. Absent a formal, controlled standard, even a legit vaccine record carries little more weight than something you might hand-write at your kitchen table.

Incidentally, on a job today I encountered a man who, along with a coworker, spoke at length about their various violent fantasies about how they would deal with anyone who shows up at their door to talk about vaccines.

I'm absolutely in favor of strict measure to force vaccination in the legitimate name of public safety, but our large population of selfish, immature gun-toting assholes makes it difficult to see how we might implement such a policy.

Even if we attempted coercion by denying stimulus payment to the unvaccinated, we can rely on our honorable Republican governors to block payments to all of their constituents, for which they would then blame Biden.

[Hugin]

3. It is so difficult working around a death cult who are using a pandemic as a political bio weapon.

I can honestly say, I never thought I'd see this happen.

I can't believe how naïve I was in March of 2020. I knew Trump and what was left of the Republican party at the time would be a problem, but, damn.

Here we are 600,000+ Americans, dead. Probably millions, who will suffer complications and economic hardship we don't even know about yet for years.

Thank you Biden/Harris and all of our great leaders in DC, State, and local governments for rushing to damp down the crisis and all of the people who voted to put them there. I shudder to think where we'd be now, if they hadn't stepped in.

[Orrex]

7. Your subject line is chillingly accurate. (nt)

[Hugin]

8. I wish it weren't. I would be so happy to be completely ridiculously wrong...

small children pointing and laughing at me.

I could live with that.

But, instead we've got this.

[Elessar Zappa]

13. If a stimulus

was given to only vaccinated people, Republican governors couldn’t block it. The IRS would send the payments directly to the person’s house. It’s not like Medicaid or unemployment where the state distributes the funds.

[Orrex]

15. That's encouraging

[Elessar Zappa]

17. Yes but I

doubt another stimulus bill would be passed, unfortunately.

[RainCaster]

4. Can we send the remaining vaccines to Africa?

Let the administration announce that in 4 weeks we will send all remaining vaccines to Africa. The message being: you better get it now because you can't later.

Maybe we wait a little longer than that, but you get the idea. A little reverse psychology for all those MAGAts who refuse to get vaccinated. If they still don't get it, then send it somewhere that will do some good. To a part of the world where it will be appreciated and there will be no Russian supported Faux News antivax BS making matters worse.

[Jakes Progress]

24. That is a good idea for a number of reasons.

Not only will it help the world vaccination numbers, but the stupid people will go crazy thinking that non-white people will be getting "their" vaccine.

[Sympthsical]

9. We're not that authoritarian

Nor do I particularly want us to be. Europe gets away with this stuff. We wouldn't.

I'm vaccinated. Friends and family are vaccinated. If some idiots want to kill themselves, oh well.

Do you want the Right to have a field day while we lose Congress?

Because this would manage it.

[Amishman]

11. and we're more divided

Joe lacks the political power and the political capital to do something this heavy handed, and I'm not sure I would want him to - especially given the fact that the vaccines are not fully approved and do come with some risks.

I think the data says the vaccine is the smart choice for almost everyone, but I do believe people should be free to choose what is best for themselves.

[Sympthsical]

12. Yeah, I never get the whole, "Why can't we be more like France?!"

Mainly because there would be a lot of bodies if the government tried.

[Jakes Progress]

20. Your suggestions?

I never said we should be like France. I said we should try the stick instead of the carrot.

Do you think we should just give up? Or do you have suggestions to increase vaccination rates "murican style"?

[Sympthsical]

35. Run the country how you'd like

Watch what happens.

You do live here, right?

[Jakes Progress]

38. So? You got crickets.

You just leave everything the way it is. As another half million die and the economy dies for everyone but the uber rich, you can watch.

If we keep doing what we have been doing, that's where we are going. I just thought it might be a good idea to try some ideas that worked.

France isn't some magic country. They have right wing yahoos and nazi party members and ignorant yokels too. But when they heard they had to have vaccination to go to a soccer match, they lined up by the million to get shots.

Are you saying that Americans are dumber and more ignorant than citizens of other countries?

[FSogol]

33. Isn't France about the same size as Montana and idaho combined?

[Sympthsical]

36. Sounds about right

And they're full of their own problems.

Ever see what a Parisian suburb looks like?

It's not great.

[Jakes Progress]

39. Yes. They have problems too.

They even have cynical people who can bitch about other people's ideas and have none of their own.

But they are turning around their vaccination numbers.

[Jakes Progress]

40. See reply 23.

[Jakes Progress]

21. The idiots aren't only killing themselves.

The more unvaccinated there are, the more variants there will be. Eventually one will cancel the benefits of the current vaccines.

There are multiple instances of people being required to do things because it makes society work better. Hence we have speed limits, stop signs, no smoking laws, etc.

As to your assumption that Europeans enjoy authoritarianism more than Americans, I can only assume the you have not live abroad.

I would like to get on an airplane again. I would like to eat in restaurants again. I would like my grandchildren not to die because they went to school. The idiots that you don't mind dying aren't going to do so by themselves. They will kill thousands of others and destroy our economy before they go. Fuck them and how much they don't like being told what to do.

[quaint]

10. Biden doesn't have use of the same stick.

United States is about 18 times bigger than France.

France is approximately 551,500 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km, making United States 1,683% larger than France. Meanwhile, the population of France is ~67.8 million people (264.8 million more people live in United States)

[Jakes Progress]

23. Not the issue. We use sticks all the time.

And how does being larger make it impossible? We require masks on airplanes and we fly way more than the French. We don't allow smoking in restaurants and we have many times the number of those in France. We deal with Medicar, Social Security, the IRS.

If you don't like sticks, what do you suggest to increase vaccination rates?

[quaint]

27. WOW! I believe you misread me.

I was defending the use of the "sticks" you list. It is the OP advocating carrots. I merely postulated why I don't think Macron's approach would work for President Biden. Ciao.

[Jakes Progress]

29. Nope.

But you misread the OP. (I am the OP) The headline itself advocates sticks.

And my reply to you asks why being larger wouldn't work.

[lagomorph777]

32. You must be confused about what you posted.

It's not as you characterize it at all.

And I have no idea why the geographic size or population of a country have anything to do with enforcing laws. Our systems are scaled to the size of the country.

[quaint]

34. I supporting President Biden's policies.

Country size may not matter in enforcing laws, but it matters in establishing them.

[Jakes Progress]

41. How so?

[Elessar Zappa]

14. I think France

has greater federal powers than the United States.

[malaise]

37. And that is the fundamental difference

[Johnny2X2X]

16. Biden is doing his best

He's really working hard to find out how to reach these people. He's going to have to reach out to prominent Republicans.

Any other ex President, and he could count on Trump to do a public service message, maybe even a joint one, but Trump is a sociopath who loves seeing people suffering.

[Jakes Progress]

19. Let's hope not.

He has been reaching out for six months. It has not worked.

And he doesn't have a world where he has another immediately preceding president who will serve the public. He has had public service messages from former presidents - both Democratic and republican - who encouraged the public to do the intelligent, moral thing. It didn't help much.

The OP suggested a couple of ways to do better, based on what was working in France, ways that the administration has not tried.

Do you have a few ideas about how we can try something that might work?

[Renew Deal]

26. The French approach would not work well in the US.

I don’t think most businesses want to be checking vaccination documents. Also, some of the unvaccinated will react badly. Might as well let them try their luck. Democrats are right to care about other people, but you can’t do much about people that don’t care about themselves.

[Jakes Progress]

30. I don't see why not.

You think businesses in France relish checking documentation. And why should we care that stupid people who are trying to kill us might react badly. It is not their luck, but ours that they are chancing. All of the non Fox News epidemiologists say that more unvaccinated and the more cases of Covid will engender more mutations, and that eventually one of the mutations will make the vaccinations we have ineffective.

I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the stupid people. I want them to stick the vaccine in their arm so that my family and I are safe. I don't care if it upsets them or makes them cranky.

[Renew Deal]

25. I kind of like the "take your chances" approach the US is taking.

Because it fits into American mindset. People have been told to get vaccinated or XYZ bad things can happen. Good luck!

The economy stays open and the problem solves itself one way or another. You can’t blame Biden for shutting things down or personal consequences.

[Jakes Progress]

31. You shouldn't get to take chances with my health.

I they don't want to vaccinate or wear masks, they threaten me and my family. The more stupid people who avoid vaccination the more cases of Covid will spread.

That will increase the number of mutations, and eventually, one will bypass the protection of our current vaccines. then the whole things starts over. Instead of stamping this out with a little sacrifice, this will carry on for years and years. Schools will shut down, and the economy will crater.

I don't care if stupid people are pissed. They are threatening my life and my finances. We pass laws that require people to behave for the general welfare all the time. We have no smoking laws, seatbelt laws, speed limits. We regulate food and drugs so that companies don't poison us. We license doctors, lawyers, plumbers, and electricians.

Do you favor "taking your chance" when it comes to whether the doctor opening up you chest cavity is qualified? To you like "taking your chance" that the drunk truck driver you meet on your commute to work will drive safely?