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Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:53 AM

Why are we NOT vaxxing kids now? We know the vaccine is perfectly safe


I think it is criminal that we haven't started making our kids safe too.

36 replies, 1530 views

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Reply Why are we NOT vaxxing kids now? We know the vaccine is perfectly safe (Original post)
fescuerescue Aug 2021 OP
Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #1
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #3
Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #7
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #8
Scrivener7 Aug 2021 #16
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #18
Blue_Adept Aug 2021 #36
GPV Aug 2021 #2
TDale313 Aug 2021 #4
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #6
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #19
obamanut2012 Aug 2021 #25
madaboutharry Aug 2021 #5
luv2fly Aug 2021 #9
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #10
luv2fly Aug 2021 #11
lapucelle Aug 2021 #12
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #20
SidDithers Aug 2021 #21
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #23
BadgerKid Aug 2021 #13
LisaL Aug 2021 #14
FarPoint Aug 2021 #15
bluestarone Aug 2021 #17
haele Aug 2021 #22
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #24
hamsterjill Aug 2021 #35
obamanut2012 Aug 2021 #26
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #27
Ms. Toad Aug 2021 #33
fescuerescue Aug 2021 #34
Iggo Aug 2021 #28
Iggo Aug 2021 #29
xmas74 Aug 2021 #30
Iggo Aug 2021 #32
iemanja Aug 2021 #31

Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:55 AM

1. We don't know it is perfectly safe for kids.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:57 AM

3. I disagree. But taking you at your word



We know for absolutely certainty that it's safe for adults.

We went through all the right processes to ensure that it's safe for adults right?

So why the HELL didn't we do that for kids too?

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:00 AM

7. My understanding is that they are in the process of doing that

and that one of them, I forget which, is likely to be cleared for kids in a matter of weeks.

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Response to Scrivener7 (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:01 AM

8. That's why I hear as well

But they shouldn't have a waited so long to get started.

Why on Earth couldn't they start both processes at the same time?

Lots of kids have died because they decided to take a vacation once the Adult vaccine reached full approval.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:38 AM

16. I don't think anyone took a vacation.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #8)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 10:04 AM

18. No one took a vacation.

Last edited Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:37 PM - Edit history (1)

New drugs are never tested on children. The medicine my daughter started taking in1995, as a child, is still not approved for use by children. Women are often excluded, as well because of the risk of pregnancy. Once a drug has received full FDA approval for adult use, based on the group it tested, even if the group excluded women, and was short on racial minorities, doctors start using it "off-label" for children, and, in essence, It is field tested, informally, on women, children, and racial minorities. We learn of the problems slowly, as data emerges in those populations.

The vaccine needs to be specifically tested for children, because we plan to give it to all children, making the risk significantly higher.

And, as a matter of fact, we don't know that it is safe for adults. We know only that it is safe short term for adults. We have no way of knowing that it is safe long term, and we don't have time to wait to find out. Routine screening x-rays (which my mother had), thalidomide, DES, are all now known to be dangerous - But based on short term tests believed to be perfectly safe.

They are doing precisely what they need to do, and have done a remarkably good job of testing these vaccines in a much more diverse population than usual. But kids are not, medically, just miniature adults - and their long term is heck of a lot longer than my long term.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #8)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:12 PM

36. YOU DON'T EXPERIMENT ON CHILDREN

There have been active test cycles going on since last year.

They work with smaller batches of people when it comes to kids because they need parental consent.

There are tighter regulations in working with children.

Finding the right dosage is what's critical.

But if you think people have taken a vacation over the concept of figuring out how to handle children getting vaccinated, you're as fucking looney as the people we see screaming about never getting the vaccine.

Do some actual research instead of weird panic cosplay posting here to figure out why it's going.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:56 AM

2. They are not mini adults, so handle things differently

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:57 AM

4. We know it's safe for adults, and kids over 12

Younger children are not just smaller adults. Their bodies can react very differently. They want to be as sure as possible before approving vaccines for younger children.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:57 AM

6. So why didn't they test it on kids at the same time as adults?


How many kids have died as a result of dragging our feet?

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 10:13 AM

19. It is unethical to test a drug not known to be safe on adults,

On children.

Not to mention an incredible legal risk. Children are not capable of giving informed consent, and there are serious legal questions as to whether a parent can waive a child's right to later sue the manufacturer for being used as a guinea pig.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 02:26 PM

25. Good lord, that's something the Nazis did

You NEVER do clinical tests like this on kids. It is illegal, unethical, and literally something Mengele would have done.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 08:57 AM

5. I think they haven't finalized determining the dosage.

At least that is what I have heard some doctors on television discuss.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:06 AM

9. Clinical trials

They are in process... that's science.

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Response to luv2fly (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:09 AM

10. Right. So why didn't the start at the same time as the other trials?

day 1: Clinical trials for adults.
Day 2 Clinical trials for children.

Instead we got

day 200: Oh yea. Hey we got all the old rich white mean vaxxined and safe....Maybe we should think about doing clinical trials for children?


If they had started both at the same time, or nearly the same time. A lot of kids would still be alive.

That's science.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:14 AM

11. I seem to recall the powers that be felt kids weren't at risk

... at least initially. That changed and trials started.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:17 AM

12. That's not science. N/T

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 10:14 AM

20. Not science at all, medically unethical, and legally irresponsible. N/t

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 10:16 AM

21. If only you'd been working at Pfizer or Moderna, the pandemic would be over by now...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #21)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 11:44 AM

23. Well we have the largest collection of virus experts right here.

I wish THEY were working on Pfizer, Moderna etc.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:18 AM

13. Probably evaluating minimum safest, effective dosage

And length of effectiveness. But yes, itís a frustrating situation. Looks like the pre-kindergarten children will be last to be vaccinated.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:20 AM

14. It's because mRNA vaccines are associated with rare side effect of myocarditis

in young males.
So FDA wanted more extensive studies in younger children.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:38 AM

15. I support the safety first concept...

I may be impatient but I need to deal with acceptance...

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 09:57 AM

17. Maybe because, if some kids started to have bad reactions then

Adults would start having fears as well. (thus stopping them from taking the shot)! I support how they did this. We just need to let the Drs. do their job! No second guessing here!

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 10:24 AM

22. Our pediatrician told us as soon as Pfiser was officially approved, she could prescribe it for 2-12

But not until it is officially approved, which hopefully is sometime this week. Similar to flu shots for kids in that age group, the vaccine has to be prescribed by a doctor instead of just given out by a pharmacist.

Next week, Dog willing, the 5 and 9 year olds will be given their first shots...
The 9 year old is terrified of needles though. So I think we all will have to be there with her.

Haele

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Response to haele (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 02:12 PM

24. There is actually a slightly larger issue than parental consent.

Once full approval is granted, doctors are permitted to use any medication off-label as they see fit. There have already been discussions of using it off-lablel for children before approval for children is granted: https://providernews.seattlechildrens.org/exceptions-to-covid-19-vaccine-age-limitations/

Most medications are not approved for children, since testing of children raises lots of both ethical and legal concerns. So what happens is the medication is approved for use in adults, and doctors use it off label for children (and for other purposes). My daughter started on pentasa in 1995 when she was 5. It is not yet approved for children, despite the fact that she took it for 13 years as a child, and it is now 26 years later.

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Response to haele (Reply #22)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 03:09 PM

35. Please take her fear seriously.

As a lifelong needle phobe, which stems from a child hood thing, please give her all your support and care. These last 18 months have been horrible for those of us with that fear. Needles and pictures of needles everywhere. Constant triggers for anxiety. How she handles this now may very well set the pattern into her adult life.

Itís not ďjust a little stingĒ for a lot of us.

Best of luck.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sat Aug 21, 2021, 02:28 PM

26. Because we aren't Nazis

That's what Mengele did. Please do not advocate for unethical, illegal, and dangerous clinical trials on children.

Also, link to proof it's safe for kids? Guess what, there is no proof. It literally doesn't exist, so please quit spreading disinformation saying it's safe for them.

Please advocate for masks instead of literal Naziesque trials.

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Response to obamanut2012 (Reply #26)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 01:02 PM

27. So taking the vaccine makes one a Nazi?

That sounds like something right is saying.

Actually. It's exactly what they are saying.

The vaccine is safe. Millions of people have proven it so.

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Response to fescuerescue (Reply #27)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:43 PM

33. Testing a vaccine not proven to be safe on adults, on children, is something the Nazi's would do.

Educate yourself on the ethics of development of new medications. Educate yourself on the shameful history of medical trials on children and racial minorities.

What we know, so far, is that it is safe - in the short term - on adults. We don't know about the long term safety.

That makes it appropriate to start trials on children - under the circumstance in which we hope every single child will be vaccinated. For a less universally used drug, it would still be too soon for child trials.

Taking the vaccine, approved for emergency use, has absolutely no relation to atrocities committed by the Nazis - and no one here (aside from you) has suggested it does.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #33)

Mon Aug 23, 2021, 02:20 PM

34. The point is that they are dragging their feet on getting this proof

I'm not the one who started up on the Nazi stuff. I just handed it back to whoever brought it up.

The Nazi talk is the stuff of the right wing and whoever upthread brought it up first. (it's not even worth looking it up as it was non-sense in, nonsense out)



However I would also suggest not suggesting that we don't know the long term affect on adults. That's what the right wing is saying and we know it's wrong.


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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)


Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:18 PM

29. On second thought, I'm bailing on this shit show.

Good luck!

Have fun!

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Response to Iggo (Reply #29)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:28 PM

30. I had an entire response about how

Unsafe it would be to test on children and adults at the same time, special consideration for age, etc. I deleted it.

The premise is crazy. No one wants to put their f'n kid out there as a guinea pig for an experimental drug that mom and dad can't have yet. That's why they didn't test kids and adults at the same time.

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Response to xmas74 (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:33 PM

32. Yep, he's been told a bunch of times. Doesn't need me to tell him again.

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Response to fescuerescue (Original post)

Sun Aug 22, 2021, 02:33 PM

31. Dosage is an issue

among other things already pointed out in this thread.

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