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babylonsister

(171,064 posts)
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:08 AM Aug 2021

Should the Government Impose a National Vaccination Mandate?

I wish they would. Vaxxed citizens should also have rights, primarily the right to not fear death from these morons.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/should-the-government-impose-a-national-vaccination-mandate

Our Columnists
Should the Government Impose a National Vaccination Mandate?
Despite claims to the contrary, there are many routes to legally requiring COVID inoculation.
By Jeannie Suk Gersen
August 26, 2021

snip//

No city or state has yet issued a straight-up requirement that all private citizens be vaccinated against COVID-19, along the lines of the Massachusetts smallpox-vaccination law upheld in Jacobson, but some have edged toward it. The closest so far is New York City’s requirement of proof of having received at least one dose for access to certain activities, including indoor dining, gyms, and performances. Various states have also ordered certain subsets of their populations, including health-care and nursing-home workers, school teachers, and state employees, to be vaccinated or face regular testing. The F.D.A.’s full approval of the vaccine this week makes it more likely that cities and states will impose general mandates on residents. If they do, they can feel confident that such requirements will be upheld by the courts, so long as they include medical and religious exemptions.

If, as seems probable, we see an increasingly dense and complicated patchwork of mandates emerge over the coming months, some might wonder about the possibility of a federal vaccination requirement. Beyond mandating inoculation of federal employees, the Biden Administration has pressured non-federal institutions to require vaccination, using the carrot of federal funding (or the stick of its potential withdrawal). As a condition of continuing to receive federal funding, the Administration has directed all nursing homes to require their staff to be vaccinated. Last week, Biden rebuked states that blocked schools from adopting mask requirements, and the Education Department suggested that infringing on school districts’ authority to adopt policies for safely returning to schools could result in withdrawal of federal funding. It is possible that the Administration could use a similar threat to prevent states from blocking school districts’ vaccine requirements.

The White House has made clear that directly imposing a national requirement on the general populace isn’t on the table, in part because many would question the government’s authority to do so in our constitutional system of limited federal powers. And, in fact, the government has never issued a national vaccination mandate—perhaps because, in the past, leaving that role to states and localities has sufficiently contained epidemics. If any federal statute currently provides authorization for a national COVID-vaccination mandate, however, it would be the Public Health Service Act, which gives several agencies the authority “to prevent the introduction, transmission, or spread of communicable diseases” from foreign countries or between states. The government can use this law to pursue quarantine policies, and the statute, broadly construed, may also allow the government to mandate vaccinations to prevent interstate spread of COVID-19.

Alternatively, Congress could rely on the Spending Clause to pass new laws that condition the transfer of federal funds to a state upon its establishing a vaccination mandate. Congress could also use the Commerce Clause to institute a national requirement as a regulation of interstate commerce. But those sweepingly ambitious federal routes are guaranteed to become mired in tremendous political pushback that could ultimately increase public resistance to vaccination, not to mention constitutional challenges claiming federal overreach. Short of those methods, the federal government still has myriad ways that it may yet push states, institutions, and citizens to do more than they otherwise would, with an arsenal of inducements, pressures, conditions, and threats. Depending on how things progress with the coronavirus variants, a national vaccination mandate may remain possible as a last resort.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Should the Government Impose a National Vaccination Mandate? (Original Post) babylonsister Aug 2021 OP
Yes. Absolutely. NOW! nt Atticus Aug 2021 #1
That won't happen. Phoenix61 Aug 2021 #2
Yes ... Xoan Aug 2021 #3
We are spending a billion dollars per day on treatment Cicada Aug 2021 #4
at least set up a national Vax'd passport system RicROC Aug 2021 #5
How do you force people to get it? MichMan Aug 2021 #6
Require proof of vaccination for anyone: thucythucy Aug 2021 #11
You seriously favor imposing those? MichMan Aug 2021 #13
Hopefully the vast majority of people thucythucy Aug 2021 #14
No Devil Child Aug 2021 #7
I have a right to expect my government to prevent the spread of death when it BeckyDem Aug 2021 #8
Probably not feasible to mandate across the board, but... Girard442 Aug 2021 #9
K&R spanone Aug 2021 #10
Yes. And let SCOTUS overturn it. KentuckyWoman Aug 2021 #12

Phoenix61

(17,003 posts)
2. That won't happen.
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:21 AM
Aug 2021

This will, sadly, be used as a political tool. Dem Govs will pass state vaccine mandates and the case/hospitalization/death counts in those states will drop. Repub Govs won’t and covid will burn through their states. At best, after the numbers are clear for even the dimmest of the dim the feds may step in and issue a mandate. “In an effort to protect everyone and keep them safe from the clear dereliction of duty being perpetrated upon them by the repub Govs.” Come election time the campaign adds will write themselves.

Cicada

(4,533 posts)
4. We are spending a billion dollars per day on treatment
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:43 AM
Aug 2021

That is as much as the cost of the Biden 3.5 trillion spending bill. And delaying full recovery from covid harms the economy. And delaying full recovery gives covid a chance to mutate so the current vaccines don’t work. The costs are so high we need to get serious.

MichMan

(11,919 posts)
6. How do you force people to get it?
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:49 AM
Aug 2021

Short of going door to door, restraining them by force and jabbing them?

thucythucy

(8,050 posts)
11. Require proof of vaccination for anyone:
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:28 AM
Aug 2021

taking a flight;

applying for driver's license, passport, social security card;

filing a federal tax return;

entering any federal building or

applying for or receiving services from any federal program (for instance, student loans, SNAP, Obamacare, federal flood insurance, veterans' benefits, Social Security, Medicare, etc.)...;

require anyone working for the federal government to have proof of vaccination;

require any business with a federal contract or receiving federal funds to certify their employees are vaccinated. This would cover, for instance, any college in which any student has accepted a federally guaranteed loan, any hospital or medical practice that accepts Medicaid or Medicare or Obamacare, every defense contractor, etc.;

make state vaccine mandates a condition of receiving federal funds, for instance, proof of vaccination for parents and children over 12 entering public school, or else no federal education funding (which is mentioned in the OP article).

I believe all these would be legal/constitutional under currently existing federal law. Of course, with our Trumpian Supreme Court that could change...

The other problem is these and other measures will take time, and most likely won't cover everyone.

The ultimate of course would be to institute a federal vaccine passport, and then arrest anyone who won't be vaccinated who doesn't have a medical exemption, but we all know that will never happen.

And so everyone will have to suffer, and pay for, those deluded enough to believe Fox, Infowars, Q-Anon and all the other right wing spewers of disinformation.


MichMan

(11,919 posts)
13. You seriously favor imposing those?
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 10:07 AM
Aug 2021

Do you really believe that those restrictions would pass congress & be supported by Pres. Biden?



No more filing a federal tax return........ means no more EITC or Child Care Tax Credit payments making people homeless and hungry(including children)

Take away health insurance, medicaid, food stamps, section 8 housing benefits from poor people

Take away SS checks and Medicare from the elderly

Take away SSDI and Medicare from the disabled

Take away VA benefits from veterans.

Remove K-12 and college students from getting an education



thucythucy

(8,050 posts)
14. Hopefully the vast majority of people
Sun Aug 29, 2021, 11:38 AM
Aug 2021

will comply. The difference between, for instance, requiring no license to drive and requiring a license hasn't meant tens of millions of people in prison or even denied the ability to drive. It's meant that the vast vast majority of people apply for a learners permit, pass the exam, pay the fees, get the license, and then apply for and pay for the required iinsurance. The vast majority also comply with laws requiring an annual car inspection. All these requirements, by the way, disproportionately impact people with limited incomes. Perhaps we should do away with these requirements in the name of freedom and equity, and put everyone on the honor system?

If you've ever been involved in applying for and keeping medicaid, food stamps, SSI, SSDI, section 8 housing and all the rest of our immensely complicated social safety net, you'd know that requiring proof of vaccination would be by far the least onerous requirement, and hardly noticed. Someone on SSI, for instance, is required every year to report any and all income, and if they have income to document each and every dollar. They also must periodically provide up to date medical information as to their disability, and even then face cancellation of benefits for arbitrary reasons or no reason at all. Getting a vaccination certificate would add practically nothing by way of a burden. Indeed, since medical certification is a requirment of many of these programs, all it would mean is that examining physicians would have one more box to check on the required forms. So, again, SSDI and Medicaid and all the other programs would continue for the vast vast majority of people in those systems. As for Medicare, I would note that thusfar elderly people have been among the most compliant in getting vaccinated, probably because thus far they've been the hardest hit cohort.

And requiring K-12 vaccinations for polio, rubella, and a host of other diseases hasn't kept significant numbers of children from public education. Quite the opposite--over the last half century or more it's saved untold thousands of lives and made it possible for entire generations of kids to complete their mainstream education.

But I agree, none of these requirments would pass. Instead many more hundreds of thousands of Americans will die, and millions may end up permanently and significantly disabled for the rest of their lives. The economic cost will be in the trillions. Our lives will continue to be disrupted in ways far more onerous (and far more deadly) than requiring that masks be worn and people be vaccinated. The virus will continue to spread, new variants will arise, and all because a significant minority of our people can't be bothered to wear a mask or get a vaccine.

One more thing to consider. ALL the populations you mention--especially people with disabilities (and I'm one) and the elderly have been significantly and disproportionately affected by this pandemic. Right now, because of the non-vaccers, people with disabilities, elderly people and others are being denied hospital beds and are having needed medical procedures postponed. People with compromised immune systems--for instance cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy who legitimately can't take the vaccine-are seeing their ability to function in this society largely and sometimes fatally compromised. I know people with spinal cord injury and post polio syndrome who have been and continue to be under virtual self imposed house arrest because of their justified anxiety about what might happen if they get sick with this.

And all because of the notion some of us have that their "freedom" from inconvenience outweighs the right of others to work, to be out in the world, and even to live.

If someone five years ago had told me this would be our social response to the most deadly pandemic in a century, I would not have believed them.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
8. I have a right to expect my government to prevent the spread of death when it
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 08:54 AM
Aug 2021

also provides at no cost a proven safe remedy.

The longer we wait for selfish dumb people to get vaccinated, the variants will mutate and become stronger. Then what?

Girard442

(6,070 posts)
9. Probably not feasible to mandate across the board, but...
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:17 AM
Aug 2021

...when you can't work, go to school shop, rent an apartment, fly, mail a package, go to a doctor, or get insurance without showing vax proof -- that's pretty mandate-y.

KentuckyWoman

(6,679 posts)
12. Yes. And let SCOTUS overturn it.
Fri Aug 27, 2021, 09:33 AM
Aug 2021

Then use that SCOTUS decision as a weapon every time the new "my body, my choice" crowd wants to take away medical choices from pregnant women.

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