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Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:42 AM

Richard Engel Is Very, Very Sad About U.S. Leaving Afghanistan

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/08/richard-engel-very-very-sad-about-us

8/31/21 4:38am
Richard Engel Is Very, Very Sad About U.S. Leaving Afghanistan
For decades, we have poured billions into our wars -- while fighting over every penny intended for the poor.
By Susie Madrak


While we see elite military advisors and journalists predicting dark things for America as a result of leaving Afghanistan, I thought about Martin Luther King Jr.'s seminal speech, "Beyond Vietnam -- A Time To Break Silence":

Since I am a preacher by calling, I suppose it is not surprising that I have seven major reasons for bringing Vietnam into the field of my moral vision. There is at the outset a very obvious and almost facile connection between the war in Vietnam and the struggle I, and others, have been waging in America. A few years ago there was a shining moment in that struggle. It seemed as if there was a real promise of hope for the poor -- both black and white -- through the poverty program. There were experiments, hopes, new beginnings. Then came the buildup in Vietnam, and I watched this program broken and eviscerated, as if it were some idle political plaything of a society gone mad on war, and I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as adventures like Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic destructive suction tube. So, I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such.


For years, we've asked, "Why can't America feed our hungry, or provide health care for the sick? Why is there always enough money for war?"

Well, war makes defense contractors, mercenaries, and assorted other people rich. And it gives journalists a high profile that increases their career standing and clout.


Maybe this is one of the reasons Richard Engel is so sad. While war is hell, adrenaline is addicting, and soldiers often have a hard time adjusting to relative calm. The same is probably true of journalists: "Without the war, who am I?"

Well, Richard, your feelings should not be the basis of foreign policy.

You said, "This is the worst capitulation of Western values in my lifetime." Really, Richard? More than the entire Trump era?

Your speech crossed a line, I think. You are neither a historian, nor a pundit. Finally, Richard, you are no Walter Cronkite. No doubt your employer will try to equate your speech with his, but you fall far short of the standard.

We know which side today's media is on, and it ain't ours.

Thank you, President Biden, for choosing the rest of us over the Endless Wars.

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Reply Richard Engel Is Very, Very Sad About U.S. Leaving Afghanistan (Original post)
babylonsister Aug 2021 OP
pwb Aug 2021 #1
Klaralven Aug 2021 #12
Ilsa Aug 2021 #61
spanone Aug 2021 #2
Zambero Aug 2021 #3
Glorfindel Aug 2021 #4
agingdem Aug 2021 #26
Glorfindel Aug 2021 #27
steventh Aug 2021 #28
agingdem Aug 2021 #30
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #53
agingdem Aug 2021 #58
llmart Aug 2021 #44
Thrill Aug 2021 #5
PA Democrat Aug 2021 #6
malaise Aug 2021 #7
dalton99a Aug 2021 #10
malaise Aug 2021 #17
Paladin Aug 2021 #8
dalton99a Aug 2021 #9
comradebillyboy Aug 2021 #40
Dopers_Greed Aug 2021 #11
MrModerate Aug 2021 #25
KPN Aug 2021 #38
Dopers_Greed Aug 2021 #50
MrModerate Aug 2021 #51
KPN Aug 2021 #52
George II Aug 2021 #13
Autumn Aug 2021 #14
kairos12 Aug 2021 #15
sarcasmo Aug 2021 #63
McKim Aug 2021 #16
malaise Aug 2021 #20
llmart Aug 2021 #45
malaise Aug 2021 #47
llmart Aug 2021 #48
uponit7771 Aug 2021 #18
tinrobot Aug 2021 #19
INdemo Aug 2021 #21
MrModerate Aug 2021 #22
Texin Aug 2021 #23
OneCrazyDiamond Aug 2021 #24
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #54
OneCrazyDiamond Aug 2021 #62
Pisces Aug 2021 #29
niyad Aug 2021 #35
Demsrule86 Aug 2021 #55
Pisces Aug 2021 #56
IronLionZion Aug 2021 #31
karynnj Aug 2021 #49
GoCubsGo Aug 2021 #32
dalton99a Aug 2021 #33
ffr Aug 2021 #34
ananda Aug 2021 #36
ancianita Aug 2021 #37
Fiendish Thingy Aug 2021 #39
Evolve Dammit Aug 2021 #41
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2021 #42
Traildogbob Aug 2021 #43
AngryOldDem Aug 2021 #46
FSogol Aug 2021 #57
RANDYWILDMAN Aug 2021 #59
ZonkerHarris Aug 2021 #60
Blue Owl Aug 2021 #64

Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:45 AM

1. He can find another War.

Give him a gun next time to fight and he may not want to stay so long.

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Response to pwb (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:24 AM

12. Seems he could have his pick of the civil wars going on now in Myanmar and Ethiopia

 

Both are as bloody as Afghanistan in recent months.

Or, if he wants to stay in the Middle East, Lebanon looks likely to heat up any week now.

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Response to pwb (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 12:29 PM

61. Only ones where he can translate Arabic into English.

Being bilingual in Arabic made his career.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:45 AM

2. K&R

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:54 AM

3. Engel had a great run

Then 20 years on someone finally switched off the light. By all appearances, it appears that at least one war correspondent had development a long-term dysfunctional love affair with the war he chose to cover. And as one popular song has so aptly stated, "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do".

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:55 AM

4. Richard Engel is beneath contempt

Maybe he can go find another war in Somalia or Ethiopia to enjoy.

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Response to Glorfindel (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:48 AM

26. I'm thinking if Engel is so desperate for war

how about he stay home and cover the war Gosar, Jordan, Gaetz, Greene, Boebert, Cawthorn, Johnson, Cruz, McCarthy et al. are waging with the United States...this war has it all...fascism, extreme violence, treason, sedition, destruction, anti-American flags, death, gallows..what's not to like???

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Response to agingdem (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:50 AM

27. Good idea!

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Response to agingdem (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:01 AM

28. Splendid idea. And he can cover domestic mass shootings for a change of pace.

Engel's statement was a surprise when I heard it. An unpleasant surprise.

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Response to steventh (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:13 AM

30. the guy made his chops in Afghanistan

20 years of being the go-to war guy...Rachel loved him..Mika and Joe loved him...heady stuff and now nada...how dare Joe end this Bush/Cheney disaster!...I mean who the hell does Joe think he is taking this away from him...the President of the United States or something??? I'm thinking maybe Richard should schedule some quality time with a shrink...

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Response to agingdem (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:30 AM

53. I never loved him...and think he crossed a line and should be fired.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #53)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 12:03 PM

58. to paraphrase Marshall McLuhan

"the media (medium) became the message"...Engel was always the story..wars and conflict zones were just backdrop..Richard Engel "reporting" from a balcony in: Afghanistan/Iran/Yemen/Syria/Libya/Somalia... Richard Engel kidnapped (or maybe not)..SHOCK AND AWE, baby!...oh, ya..about the war...

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Response to agingdem (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:28 AM

44. +1000

Great post! All of it truthful, sadly.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 07:58 AM

5. The media coverage has been way over the top

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:05 AM

6. Chris Hedges described this addiction to the adrenaline rush and exhilaration of war

experienced by many members of the military as well as journalists reporting from war zones in his 2002 book War is a Force that gives Us Meaning.

I read his book n 2003 because I was so angry and saddened by our invasion of Iraq. The book is even more relevant today as a frame through which to view he 20 years the US spent in Afghanistan and the current criticisms of the withdrawal by the architects of the war and those who reported on it.

There is a great summary of the book here:

https://www.supersummary.com/war-is-a-force-that-gives-us-meaning/summary/

Below is an excerpt:

Hedges explores his own profession, offering a sobering perspective on the role the media plays in supporting the “cause” of war. This ties back to the mythical nature of war, and he uses the Gulf War of the 1990s as an example of the ways the media and notes that journalists—including himself—always believe the cause of their nation is justified. He argues that this belief is the same whether the cause is religious or secular in nature, and that reporters are part of the machinery that keeps nations going to war.

Hedges ends the book with a study of the effects that the “narcotic” of war has on individuals. He uses his own experience with soldiers and other journalists to underscore the addictive nature of war, describing the rush of adrenaline and euphoria that can accompany battles and the deep lows that follow after the mind and body “crash” after the excitement. This is very similar what a drug addict experiences—intense highs followed by dreadful lows that can, in the short term, only be cured by chasing another high. He notes the prevalence of drug use and addiction among soldiers and how it intensifies when they return home, seeking to replicate their experiences.

Hedges’ book is a singular work that studies war not from a military or tactical point of view, but as a psychological phenomenon. His arguments that myth is essential to warfare and that manipulation of nationalist and ethnic identities to perpetuate it—and that individuals enjoy war in complex ways that may be difficult to explain—are innovative ways of pondering why civilizations spend so much blood and treasure fighting each other.



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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:07 AM

7. He's what we call a war porn addict

He's addicted to war.

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Response to malaise (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:14 AM

10. Fucker loves war and profits from it


He adores Bush and Cheney


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Response to dalton99a (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:35 AM

17. Was never a fan

but then I'm anti-war

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:09 AM

8. As if Engel will have any problem, finding another war to to fill his wallet and ego. (nt)

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:12 AM

9. Engel is a despicable neocon warmonger whoring for MIC contractors

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:18 AM

40. It's shocking how many "liberal journalists" are

neocon warmongers. The news media just love conflict. It pays the bills.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:22 AM

11. We were not supposed to be in Afghanistan for nation-building

It was CNN that tried to paint that narrative. That somehow the war was noble and we were standing up for freedom there.

Fuck them.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:48 AM

25. Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld took their eyes off the ball.

 

The only reason to be in Afghanistan was to whack Bin Laden. We should have ignored the Taliban entirely and never tried to drag them into the 21st Century (or even the 19th) at the muzzle of a gun.

Bush should have gotten us out; Obama should have gotten out; Trump should have gotten out. But they didn't.

Biden did. And I don't know how this will play out, politically, but I'm willing to bet that history will give Biden high marks for his management of this crisis and other ones on his plate right now.

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Response to MrModerate (Reply #25)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:49 AM

38. I agree. Joe Biden has already earned high marks as

President. He is the President America needed in a time of deep and daunting crises.

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Response to KPN (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:00 AM

50. It's infuriating that the mainstream greedia is taking shots at him...

For everything not going 100% smoothly during a crisis.

That's what makes it a crisis. Withdrawing a military after a country collapses to a band of warlords isn't supposed be like planning a freaking wedding reception.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #50)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:12 AM

51. And every solution to Biden's "mistakes" these pundits and superannuated military commanders...

 

Can come up with is: Reinvade Afghanistan.

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #50)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:13 AM

52. It is infuriating. As far as legacy goes, it doesn't matter though. Joe will go down in

history as a great one -- he already is in my book.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:29 AM

13. I watched about two or thee minutes of him yesterday afternoon. He was disgusting. Everyone....

....should contact MSNBC and tell them that they won't watch their channel until Engel is removed permanently.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:29 AM

14. Get happy Engel. Pack up and get your ass over toAfghanistan, there's nothing holding you here but

fear. There is no lead anchor tied to your ass.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:32 AM

15. He is a disgusting war vampire. A blow dried fake, Hemingway.

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Response to kairos12 (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 01:23 PM

63. Richard Engel is the media version of Erik Prince.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:34 AM

16. Grateful Thanks for These Comments!!!!

Love these comments, the posters on this story are just so right!!!!Especially enjoyed the Chris Hedges quote. The whole nation is addicted to war, in my opinion. We watch it on TV like a football game and with the same competitive spirit. Thee is something primitive and childlike, violent about this. The TV watchers just hate to lose the game!!! Well, it's time to grow up, America! War is NOT a game, its a horrible destructive force. We have to find another way to be!

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Response to McKim (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:38 AM

20. You think the US loves war

Last edited Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:38 AM - Edit history (1)

I remember watching the illegal invasion of Iraq- there was a British commentator on BBC describing the beauty of the Western bombs killing innocent civilians in their own home country. It was like fireworks to that asshole. And yet they call us the barbarians in our shitholes countries.

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Response to malaise (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:32 AM

45. Absolutely!

I remember during the first Iraq war I was completely disgusted with Wolf Blitzer who every night was absolutely orgasmic reporting on the bombing that was killing civilians in Iraq. I refused to watch any of it after that.

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Response to llmart (Reply #45)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:37 AM

47. Killing people is sport to these people

It's sick and sad

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Response to malaise (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:41 AM

48. Yes, but many Americans were enjoying watching it all on CNN also.

At the time I worked with mostly men in an office setting and they would get all frothed up at what they had seen on CNN the night before. It disgusted me. It was like they'd watched a sporting event or something. Of course none of them were in any danger of being sent there to fight, so all fun and games.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:35 AM

18. K&R, plenty for war but no more for the poor

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:38 AM

19. War is a racket, and he is part of it.

As a war reporter, it is in his best interest for wars to happen.

Same goes for defense contractors (who should really be called war contractors). They make a lot of money off of war.

And, to some degree, the military as well (mostly those who give the orders, not those who carry them out). Careers are made in combat.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:43 AM

21. Richard Engle did not fight in any of these wars

He didn't fire one shot.
He didn't lose any close childhood friends like many of us did in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghan. He didn't pick up the Stars and Stripes aind read under the heading "Killed in Action" childhood friends that lived within 1 mile or just blocks from his childhood home
So Fuck you Richard Engle you Neocon and don't give me this shit "we fought them there so we wouldn't have to fight them here"



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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:43 AM

22. Engel's highly meta meditations on the universe of reporterdom is kind of niche-y for my tastes.

 

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:44 AM

23. He liked the notoriety he gained during US foreign exploits.

He probably figured he'd get an anchor desk like Wolf Blitzer.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 08:46 AM

24. His coverage during the tfg years was great.

This year....not so much.

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Response to OneCrazyDiamond (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:33 AM

54. I never thought he was any good.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #54)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 01:20 PM

62. This is type of stuff I am thinking of.




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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:03 AM

29. Wow, cut the guy some slack. He is emotionally vested in these people being left behind. This was

His whole life, not about the money and fame. Where is the emotional intelligence on this board??? He is compromised and not reporting like a robot. Sorry if everything he’s saying isn’t scripted to your pleasure. This guy needs to decompress to have perspective.

He may be an adrenaline junkie, but we need people like this in the field. He has blown up his entire life for reporting.

How quick people are to turn on someone who they hailed a hero fairly recently.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:28 AM

35. Perhaps you should read that quote from his book.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:34 AM

55. We don't need people like him...he is a war monger and we don't need wars.

I never considered him a hero anyway.

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Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #55)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:44 AM

56. He's a person who is emotionally compromised by what he's seen and experienced. It's not some

War to him. It’s living breathing people. We want to claim the Repubs don’t have nuance in their vocabulary. What I’m reading from some fair weather posters on this blog is the parallel universe.

I can find many glowing posts about Richard Engel when he was on the Rachel Maddow show a couple of years ago. Back then people were saying he needed a break. Our own pretzel flip on someone who says something that doesn’t coincide with our narrative is crazy.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:19 AM

31. Comparing himself to Zarqawi is a bit much

dude is delusional. The US will be at war with somebody somewhere again soon. Too many people want it for profit and false patriotism.

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Response to IronLionZion (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:52 AM

49. I was stunned by that quote and the fact that he said he saw, before the invasion, that an Iraq war

could be a turning point in the middle east. That in a sentence is the essence of what a neocon is.

As to his reporting over the years, he probably deserves the praise he got for being willing to get close enough to show people what was actually happening. However, that one sentence - stated as if it had no greater meaning, suggests that any OPINION he added to facts on events covered needs to be examined in light of that admitted bias.

I remember not understanding why the neocons could believe that a war in Iraq could be a turning point. It was 2005 before I read a NYT oped that spoke of how the neocons saw changing Iraq as a way to change the dynamics through the entire middle east. I was struck by how so many presumably intelligent people could believe such a risky, stupid idea. I concede that the war would by definition bring change, but for the life of me I can't see how it could be a positive reset of all the troubled dynamics of the Middle East. (Not to mention the immorality of killing so many Iraqis to cause this reset.)

Being a reporter in the field makes him an expert on the things he actually saw. Even then, there is always the problem that no one can see anything and what they see may actually differ based on their believes and who they trust. In addition, especially over time, there likely is an inclination to report what fits the narrative.

In fairness, he was just as angry in his reports on Trump abandoning the Kurds. Clearly from the sentence, he was already biased in favor of the Iraq invasion in concept even before it happened.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:19 AM

32. Don't worry, Richard.

You'll have a big war here to cover in your own country if the Red Hat crowd has their way. And, if you're so concerned about women, why don't you go to Texas, and cover what's going on there? Or, is your concern selective?

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Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:21 AM

33. +1

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:26 AM

34. I'm predicting he'll find a nice position at Fox, badmouthing democrats. His career demands it

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:38 AM

36. He appears like an addict going through withdrawal.

Tough love is the only way out.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:38 AM

37. With Trump's Syria shit show, Engel acted "concerned" about canceling the US military's "policing"

of the world, saying that policing has always been our job.
And yet he never said a damn word about about Trump's capitulation to Western values for the Kurds; at best his reporting was lukewarm about the withdrawal because he knew he still had Afghanistan to live report from. But now that he's hit his dead end in conflict zone reporting with Biden, and so he's pissed.

Engel never could read policy on the ground, and he shouldn't now, either.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 09:59 AM

39. All I can think of now when I see him is Roland B. Hedley from Doonesbury. Nt

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:19 AM

41. I'm really trying to reserve judgement. His coverage of the border mess under 45 was excellent.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:26 AM

42. He can always move there.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:26 AM

43. Send him to war torn countries

South of us, that have women and children so abused, and lives threatened, they travel a thousands deadly miles to find safe haven, only to face Stephen Miller fan boys at the border. Pretty certain they have no chance of education or many liberties even Afghans have.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 10:35 AM

46. Just like it's always 5 pm somewhere for happy hour...there's always a war somewhere

Seriously.

If his main reason he’s pissed is because the blood and guts are over, that tells me he needs an extended vacation and/or detox. Or counseling.

If his main reason is his career, then he is as much of a war profiteer as weapons dealers.

Both are sick reasons and NBC and MSNBC need to chill on giving him airtime for awhile. He needs to relearn (or learn) healthy perspective.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 11:51 AM

57. Hey Engel, have fun covering the Iowa State Fair and the Delaplane Strawberry Festival.

Less people dying, but maybe something tragic will happen!

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 12:14 PM

59. What do you expect from a WAR corespondent

he is part of the MIC and get's nothing if we stop fighting

Go away you corporate toad !

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 12:24 PM

60. Fuck Richard Engel.

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Response to babylonsister (Original post)

Tue Aug 31, 2021, 05:44 PM

64. Suck it, Dick

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