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Fiendish Thingy

(15,071 posts)
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:33 PM Sep 2021

Jayapal on Rachel just now: CPC will vote no on bipartisan bill if Senate doesn't pass BBB first

Last edited Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

She implied that Pelosi’s scheduled vote this Thursday on the bipartisan bill is a “soft” date, and the vote won’t happen if the senate hasn’t passed the Build Back Better reconciliation bill first.

Also, Jayapal told WaPo last night that CPC “no” votes on the bipartisan bill (before reconciliation passes) grew from from 40 no votes on Friday, to 60 no votes yesterday. Those will all be “yes” votes once the reconciliation bill passes the senate.

Jayapal and her caucus aren’t playing. This could be the most intense legislative week in Congress in a long time.

EDITED TO ADD:

The centrist saboteurs are floating the talking point that only the “framework” for the reconciliation bill needs to pass the house and senate (what Jayapal has called “pre-conferencing”) before Thursday in order to vote on the bipartisan bill in the house, however, Jayapal made clear tonight on Rachel that passing the framework alone is not enough to gain the support of the CPC on Thursday- they won’t support the bipartisan bill until the reconciliation bill has passed.

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Jayapal on Rachel just now: CPC will vote no on bipartisan bill if Senate doesn't pass BBB first (Original Post) Fiendish Thingy Sep 2021 OP
the house version of manchin nt msongs Sep 2021 #1
You couldn't be more off base- the CPC supports Biden's entire agenda, Manchin doesn't. Nt Fiendish Thingy Sep 2021 #2
Republicans like the bill. jimfields33 Sep 2021 #18
Only 5-6 GOP yes votes vs. 60+ CPC no votes. There will be no vote on Thursday Fiendish Thingy Sep 2021 #19
No dsc Sep 2021 #5
This. Salviati Sep 2021 #11
I have to disagree because the progressive caucus is trying to pass Biden's full agenda. femmedem Sep 2021 #6
Here's the difference qazplm135 Sep 2021 #7
3.5 trillion already was a compromise, and a concession FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #15
well qazplm135 Sep 2021 #21
One can only wonder which side FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #22
I'm on the reality side qazplm135 Sep 2021 #23
Reality also requires the progressive votes. FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #24
sure qazplm135 Sep 2021 #26
It comes down to who is living up to their word, FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #28
It comes down to power qazplm135 Sep 2021 #29
Probably, but if it's OK for power to trump integrity and honesty, FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #30
what do you want from me? qazplm135 Sep 2021 #31
Can't do that, FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #32
Do you know for a fact qazplm135 Sep 2021 #34
No I didn't personally witness it, but it was reported that way. FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #37
I think the reporting qazplm135 Sep 2021 #38
Wrong. FoxNewsSucks Sep 2021 #16
How? Jayapal and the CPC stick to a deal made months ago, Manchin throws sand in the gears... JHB Sep 2021 #17
Exactly..I'm sick of them, Manchin and Sinema..nt helpisontheway Sep 2021 #25
Then nothing will pass, and if there is no compromise then 2022 will be interesting JohnSJ Sep 2021 #3
Right. Nt helpisontheway Sep 2021 #27
Who is going to blink first if the alternative is to get neither the bi-partisan or reconciliation PoliticAverse Sep 2021 #4
She can seek to pass it qazplm135 Sep 2021 #8
One thing Pelosi has said which I believe she really means... PoliticAverse Sep 2021 #9
I believe it too qazplm135 Sep 2021 #12
Sounds like McConnell is determined to tank both in the Senate. Freethinker65 Sep 2021 #10
Manchin has indicated he doesn't care if the Build Back Better Act reconcillation bill passes PoliticAverse Sep 2021 #13
Never pay attention to what Manchin says, only what he actually does. Nt Fiendish Thingy Sep 2021 #20
McConnell can't tank either bill Fiendish Thingy Sep 2021 #36
Sigh Me. Sep 2021 #14
Good. Their deal was already agreed upon. budkin Sep 2021 #33
Jayapal is my rep. ismnotwasm Sep 2021 #35

jimfields33

(15,157 posts)
18. Republicans like the bill.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:01 PM
Sep 2021

On Thursday it will pass well over needed votes. Heck it passed 68-32 votes in the senate.

Fiendish Thingy

(15,071 posts)
19. Only 5-6 GOP yes votes vs. 60+ CPC no votes. There will be no vote on Thursday
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:16 PM
Sep 2021

Unless by some miracle the senate passes the reconciliation bill.

dsc

(52,088 posts)
5. No
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:39 PM
Sep 2021

Manchin and Sinema both promised along with the rest that the bills would move together, that is why many Dems voted for it in the Senate despite it actually making climate change worse. Now, the moderates are moving the goal posts. If the progressives give in now, then this bill will be all we get. Among other things, virtually all the jobs in it will go to men and mostly white men at that, meaning GOP voters. So Dems get taxed and the GOP gets the benefit.

Salviati

(6,000 posts)
11. This.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:48 PM
Sep 2021

The build back better 3.5 trillion dollar plan polls well in WV. It is supported by a margin of +22 points by likely voting republilcans in WV. To claim that this fight is between progressives and so-called moderates is way off base. It's a fight between the whole Democratic party, and a few intransigent attention seeking holdouts. (And honestly, that the charitable interpretation of their motives.)


https://www.filesforprogress.org/memos/bbb-wv.pdf

femmedem

(8,167 posts)
6. I have to disagree because the progressive caucus is trying to pass Biden's full agenda.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:39 PM
Sep 2021

You might disagree with their strategy, but their goal is fundamentally different from Manchin's.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
7. Here's the difference
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:42 PM
Sep 2021

Manchin et al got all they wanted in the Bipartisan Bill.

Progressives are clearly going to allow some moderation to the reconciliation bill.

So progressives are giving some, they just don't want to give ALL.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
15. 3.5 trillion already was a compromise, and a concession
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 09:45 PM
Sep 2021

Now conservadems are showing their word to be no good by refusing to honor the deal made with progressives.

It's not the progressives who are failing to keep their end of the bargain. We shouldn't have to give up more to satisfy the corporate owners of certain elected senators and representatives.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
22. One can only wonder which side
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:27 PM
Sep 2021

someone is on if they can state something like that.

Working Americans have given up far too much already. Further enriching billionaires hasn't solved our problems in the past, why would anyone ever think that even more of it would be beneficial in the future?

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
23. I'm on the reality side
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:45 PM
Sep 2021

I didn't say jack about what I thought was best or right, I said what's going to happen, which is not 3.5 trillion.

You can cast whatever aspersions my way ya want, don't really care.

It's the reality, if folks don't like it, get out there and vote for more folks on your side, which is the same thing I'd say to moderates...until then, neither side has a majority lock on the party so if you want any bill to pass, then it's going to take the votes of Manchin and Sinema...period.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
24. Reality also requires the progressive votes.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:50 PM
Sep 2021

So why do progressives ALWAYS need to give even more? I'm fucking sick of that. Let the corporate billionaires give a little.

Manchin and Sinema should be expected to honor the deal they made. Progressives who are living up to their word should not be given the shaft, and that should not be OK with anyone.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
26. sure
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:52 PM
Sep 2021

but if moderates say no to 3.5 trillion, then guess what, it's not 3.5 trillion, just like if progressive vote down the infrastructure bill, it's no to that.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
28. It comes down to who is living up to their word,
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 10:55 PM
Sep 2021

who is working FOR the Biden Democratic agenda and who is working against it.

They made a deal. Progressives are keeping their word, conservadems are not. I don't consider that acceptable. I don't know why anyone would.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
30. Probably, but if it's OK for power to trump integrity and honesty,
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:01 PM
Sep 2021

I don't think that would be considered a Democratic value. There is a party which values that, though.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
31. what do you want from me?
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:07 PM
Sep 2021

Should we kick out Manchin and Sinema because they don't have Democratic values?

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
32. Can't do that,
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:10 PM
Sep 2021

but we don't need to just roll over for them or their owners. Nor treat them like they're right or honest. Because they're neither.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
34. Do you know for a fact
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:17 PM
Sep 2021

that they agreed to anything?

I don't. I don't think you do either.

For all we know, they told everyone they weren't on board the whole time, and folks went ahead anyways thinking they could get them there in the end.

Do I think they are right to oppose it? No. Would I be ok if they chopped it down to like 2.8 Trillion ish? Sure. There's nothing sacred about 3.5. Would I be happy if it went all the way down to 1 to 1.5 trillion? Not at all.

Does any of my feelings matter regardless? Nope.

The reality remains. They get to object and cut, and progressives have to decide if whatever the ultimate result is, is worth voting for the bipartisan bill, and moderates have to assume progressives will vote no on the latter if moderates go too far and decide whether they want THAT bill or not.

So really, both sides have some choices to make. The problem is that the progressives are more or less one voice, but the moderates have different camps. Sinema doesn't want any tax increase but wants to pay for it using carbon tax, but that won't work because well it wouldn't fund it if we keep the no taxes under 400K rule, and Manchin ain't going for it. Manchin will go with some tax increases but apparently Sinema won't. Then you have a few other moderates who all want various things included or taken out (like prescription drugs).

Here's the deal, we don't have to do everything in one bill. Get what we can this time around, and then try and get some more later. If ultimately we get say 2.5 Trillion, that's still 3.5 trillion in infrastructure plus 2 trillion in covid relief for 5.5 trillion dollars going out to people.

You telling me that's a progressive disaster??

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
37. No I didn't personally witness it, but it was reported that way.
Tue Sep 28, 2021, 07:17 PM
Sep 2021

I'm among those who suspected a republicon-style dirty trick when it was announced that there would be two separate bills, giving the conservatives the chance to break their word and diminish the reconciliation bill.

I don't think it's a disaster, and don't fundamentally disagree with what you say.

I'm just sick and tired of it always being the progressives who have to give in. Conservadems and their republicon role models do nothing to help regular americans. They're looking out for the interests of billionaires and corporations. Let them give in for once, help Americans and let their donors pay their fair share for a change.

FoxNewsSucks

(10,328 posts)
16. Wrong.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 09:48 PM
Sep 2021

Progressives have lived up to their side of the deal made to pass both bills. The 3.5T is already a concession from what they wanted to do.

Manchin etc are failing to keep their word by not honoring the deal Pelosi Shumer and Biden made. Conservadems are the threat to Biden's agenda. Progressives have been working with Biden to get things done. Can Manchin say that? HELL NO he can't.

JHB

(37,106 posts)
17. How? Jayapal and the CPC stick to a deal made months ago, Manchin throws sand in the gears...
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 09:56 PM
Sep 2021

...for Manchin reasons. How is that the same thing?

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
4. Who is going to blink first if the alternative is to get neither the bi-partisan or reconciliation
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:39 PM
Sep 2021

bills passed?

If Republicans hold fast on the debt limit will Democrats be forced to raise it by reconciliation bill before the end of October?

From another post on DU (https://democraticunderground.com/100215900538 ) it appears Pelosi has de-linked the 2 bills again...

Speaker Nancy Pelosi told House Democrats Monday night that she is no longer linking reconciliation and infrastructure, and said she would seek to pass the public works bill this week regardless of the status of the larger domestic spending bill.



qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
12. I believe it too
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:49 PM
Sep 2021

but that doesn't mean that she has the votes. It means she's trying to get the votes, if she had them, there be a vote tonight.

Unless the CPC gives, she doesn't have the votes unless she finds about 55 Republicans to change their minds and vote for it, and if you think there's a civil war brewing between progressives and moderates now, wait and see what happens if moderates team up with Republicans to effectively kill the reconciliation bill.

Because everyone knows that if the bipartisan bill passes first, more than 3 Dems in the House and probably Sinema are NOT voting for the reconciliation bill in any form.

And that's going to make progressives pretty effing upset, and that's a formula for losing the 22 elections.

Freethinker65

(9,821 posts)
10. Sounds like McConnell is determined to tank both in the Senate.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:46 PM
Sep 2021

The original agreement was to pass reconciliation first. Republicans could then try to use items in the bill against the Democrats. Problem is, the Republicans know most Americans support what is actually in the reconciliation bill. Standard infrastructure bill was a compromise to get ok to vote on reconciliation.

I also would refuse to consider the infrastructure bill until some sort of reconciliation bill is voted on.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
13. Manchin has indicated he doesn't care if the Build Back Better Act reconcillation bill passes
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 08:52 PM
Sep 2021

this year at all. The question is how much does he care about the bi-partisan infrastructure bill?


Fiendish Thingy

(15,071 posts)
36. McConnell can't tank either bill
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:39 PM
Sep 2021

The bipartisan bill already passed in the senate, and the reconciliation bill can pass without a single Republican vote.

ismnotwasm

(41,857 posts)
35. Jayapal is my rep.
Mon Sep 27, 2021, 11:20 PM
Sep 2021

I’m not fond of her brand of slogan politics, but she is heartfelt and is frighteningly good at it. She doesn’t waste political capital.

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