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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,719 posts)
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:17 AM Sep 2021

Do you think Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda?


39 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Yes
2 (5%)
No
37 (95%)
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Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you think Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda? (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2021 OP
It sure doesn't look like it. BlueTsunami2018 Sep 2021 #1
They are committed to blocking it. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #2
They are getting paid to block it, only thing that makes sense. lark Sep 2021 #3
100% agree. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #4
Most likely explanation. 2naSalit Sep 2021 #15
JMHO sinema having gotten a vote of no confidence by AZ Dems, she will run in '24 as gqp PortTack Sep 2021 #17
She won't survive a Republican primary. temporary311 Sep 2021 #26
Exactly....add that to her being a bisexual woman. That's why she ran as a dem in the first place PortTack Oct 2021 #32
Crap, I hadn't thought of that. That would certainly explain a lot. lark Sep 2021 #29
I have no idea- they are both more complicated than they appear... TreasonousBastard Sep 2021 #5
Constituents. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #14
And something like 69% support the Voting Rights legislation Caliman73 Sep 2021 #19
In a state where Trump got 70% of the vote... BlueCheeseAgain Sep 2021 #23
But they do. They hate Dems, but elected Manchin. lagomorph777 Sep 2021 #27
I'm willing to bet some other Democrats aren't committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda... brooklynite Sep 2021 #6
That is a sucker's bet Caliman73 Sep 2021 #20
Sinema is not showing loyalty to the people who voted for her. Walleye Sep 2021 #7
Herself. CrispyQ Sep 2021 #10
I feel the same. Manchin and Sinema feathering their nest for after they lose Walleye Sep 2021 #12
I'm willing to bet some other Democrats aren't committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda... brooklynite Sep 2021 #8
Working out differences is one thing Mad_Machine76 Sep 2021 #11
No Mad_Machine76 Sep 2021 #9
No Patton French Sep 2021 #13
Obviously, they are not. msfiddlestix Sep 2021 #16
They want the BIF to pass qazplm135 Sep 2021 #18
Lawrence O'Donnell, who talks about congress each night, Hortensis Sep 2021 #21
+1 leftstreet Sep 2021 #30
Half and half BlueCheeseAgain Sep 2021 #22
Do you think Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema need to be committed 48656c6c6f20 Sep 2021 #24
Manchin will commit, if anything that could be perceived as anti-coal is removed andym Sep 2021 #25
No. nt DLevine Sep 2021 #28
They are committed to obstructing it iemanja Sep 2021 #31
I look at their ages for clues DFW Oct 2021 #33
I think they are committed to lobbyists Mr. Sparkle Oct 2021 #34

BlueTsunami2018

(3,528 posts)
1. It sure doesn't look like it.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:20 AM
Sep 2021

Otherwise there would be none of this open refusal to do so. It looks like they don’t give a fuck at all about anything except corporate interests.

lark

(23,265 posts)
3. They are getting paid to block it, only thing that makes sense.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:24 AM
Sep 2021

They are hurting their political fortunes, especially Sienema, so there has to be something else in this for them. It's coming from the Big Oil/coal guys & that is their priority.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
4. 100% agree.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:25 AM
Sep 2021

And incidentally, Putin is Big Oil.

The only good news here, is we know that Manchin and Sinema do have a price. Theoretically, we could find a way to outbid their donors.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
5. I have no idea- they are both more complicated than they appear...
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:27 AM
Sep 2021

And I am conflicted over the concepts of "loyalty".

Should a legislator show primary loyalty to constituents, constituents who voted for him/her, the party, the party leader, or some "higher" authority?

If not just one, in what order.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
14. Constituents.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:46 AM
Sep 2021

And, per a poll that came out yesterday, 77% of Manchin's constituents support the reconciliation bill. So why doesn't Manchin support it? (Rhetorical question. We all know the answer).

Caliman73

(11,764 posts)
19. And something like 69% support the Voting Rights legislation
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:57 PM
Sep 2021

So we have polls showing that constituents support, in large majorities, the exact two bills he is determined to keep.

We also know that there are other "constituent" groups to whom Manchin is beholden who apparently have more sway than 77% and 69% of the people of the state of West Virginia, respectively.

BlueCheeseAgain

(1,654 posts)
23. In a state where Trump got 70% of the vote...
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:14 PM
Sep 2021

... there's no way 77% of WV voters support Biden's agenda. They might say they support individual elements of it when phrased the right way, but once they know it's Biden's agenda, they'll say they oppose it in a heartbeat.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
27. But they do. They hate Dems, but elected Manchin.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 03:22 PM
Sep 2021

They want these benefits. We just have to let them know that Manchin is keeping those benefits from them, to benefit himself. No need to emphasize that it's Biden's idea when advertising on Fux or Falsebook. Just tell them to contact their Senator and demand this stuff.

brooklynite

(95,301 posts)
6. I'm willing to bet some other Democrats aren't committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda...
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:29 AM
Sep 2021

They support some or most of it, but will have differences on policy and politics.

Caliman73

(11,764 posts)
20. That is a sucker's bet
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:05 PM
Sep 2021

Problem is that the very bills that Sinema and Manchin are standing in the way of, are critical to Biden's and the vast majority of the Democratic party's agenda.

These aren't just things that came off the top of Biden's head. These are things that have been negotiated, that have the support of Progressives and most moderates. Information available shows that opposition to the bills in both the House and Senate are being coordinated through Manchin at least. Sinema seems to just be a rouge operator at this time. The 9 moderates who were stalling the bill in the House were in communication with Manchin.

The Democratic Party is a big tent and there are always differences. As Will Rogers said, "I am not a member of any organized Political Party, I'm a Democrat".

This is not that. This is two Democrats who are completely blocking the two most critical pieces of legislation for their party, at a time when they are most likely to be able to pass them, in a time when politically, it would put forth the major ideological and policy difference between Republicans and Democrats and which would be the difference for campaigns in the 2022 AND likely 2024 elections.

Walleye

(31,271 posts)
7. Sinema is not showing loyalty to the people who voted for her.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:30 AM
Sep 2021

I think we need to find out exactly whom she is showing loyalty to

CrispyQ

(36,661 posts)
10. Herself.
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:41 AM
Sep 2021

IMO, she's using her senate seat to secure a more profitable position when she loses her next election. Manchin's probably in it for the money, too.

Publicly funded elections would go a long way toward fixing this country, but how do you get the people who benefit from the status quo to change the status quo?

Walleye

(31,271 posts)
12. I feel the same. Manchin and Sinema feathering their nest for after they lose
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:43 AM
Sep 2021

I hate to think this of elected Democrats, but I don’t see any other explanation

brooklynite

(95,301 posts)
8. I'm willing to bet some other Democrats aren't committed to passing Joe Biden's agenda...
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:30 AM
Sep 2021

They support some or most of it, but will have differences on policy and politics.

Mad_Machine76

(24,474 posts)
11. Working out differences is one thing
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:41 AM
Sep 2021

Flat out refusing to name specifics or what they would like to see changed or modified is something else. Why are Sinema and Manchin being so "cagey"?!

Mad_Machine76

(24,474 posts)
9. No
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 09:40 AM
Sep 2021

I think Manchin seems to be more malleable than Sinema, though, but both seem more committed to being a thorn in the side of passing Joe Biden's agenda for their own reasons.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
18. They want the BIF to pass
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 01:45 PM
Sep 2021

But not reconciliation.

If the BIF fails or gets moved it will depend on how important the former is to them.

If it's more important to pass one than block the other than you'll suddenly see progress. If blocking is more important to them, you won't and then progressives will be left to decide what happens next

I really don't understand why they don't just say 1.5 trillion take it or leave it. Progressives would be furious but they'd vote for it and no one is losing an election on the moderate side for what is effectively 150 billion a year over ten years.

It's political malpractice by the moderates and it's going to lose us 22.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
21. Lawrence O'Donnell, who talks about congress each night,
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:07 PM
Sep 2021

said he's completely clueless about what's happening. He's never seen anything like it. Which is basically what most observers are saying.

Once again some people are acting so bizarrely and without rational explanation that I'm once again forced to wonder if someone's being blackmailed. Seriously. An explanation that would at least explain. Like tRump himself and a slew of people who destroyed their reputations with massive personality swings, turning into agents for the RW, gig employees as alternative-fact purveyors on Fox if they're lucky.

leftstreet

(36,121 posts)
30. +1
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 05:55 PM
Sep 2021

I agree, blackmail

And if someone as experienced as O'Donnell can't find a credible theory to explain it....

BlueCheeseAgain

(1,654 posts)
22. Half and half
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:12 PM
Sep 2021

I think Manchin wants to pass something. He'll want changes and concessions, but he'll be there in the end.

Sinema is the one I'm worried about. She's just completely unreadable.

andym

(5,451 posts)
25. Manchin will commit, if anything that could be perceived as anti-coal is removed
Wed Sep 29, 2021, 02:42 PM
Sep 2021

Simena is a wild card-- it's difficult to understand what she wants-- perhaps just to have a significant moderating effect and be seen as a player.

DFW

(54,658 posts)
33. I look at their ages for clues
Sat Oct 2, 2021, 06:56 AM
Oct 2021

Manchin is 74, Sinema is 45.

Manchin gets a comfortable retirement whether he runs for another term or not. He's set for life. He can compromise or not, go along or not, and he'll be fine. I think he's in it for the ego at this point. I think he'll ultimately go along, after "making his point" along with the appropriate headlines to paste on his wall.

Sinema is another species. She is only 45, and is no idiot. Maybe not the greatest strategist in the world, but I've heard her speak, and she is no fool along the lines of Sarah Palin. Maybe she has some hotshot private sector post waiting for her, but maybe she just wants to make some kind of big splash that will somehow prove she was "right all along," and make a great comeback in the AZ Democratic party. If she makes enough of Biden's agenda ultimately happen, she will be able to say, "I kept a lid on the excesses, and made everything happen anyway," and she'll give any challenger a hard time proving her wrong.

They may say the same things for now, but it seems to me that they are saying them with very different motivations.

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