Just read where 21% of Mormons are in the Q movement.

[leftyladyfrommo]

That doesn't really surprise me. The Church teaches some pretty far out stuff. When I lived in Salt Lake the good Mormons that were born and raised in the church never even considered questioning what the Church was telling them.

[Aristus]

1. People who believe in magic underwear, and that they will get their own planet when

they die, will believe anything...

[leftyladyfrommo]

5. Exactly. I couldn't believe that those people never

even blinked at the most outrageous stuff. Everybody grew up with it and it doesn't seem the least bit strange to them.

A few of my professors were Mormon and they seemed to be able to compartmentalize what they taught and their religion so it didn't bother them. I think the scientists knew very well that the religion was absurd but they went along because their families and friends were all Mormon.

[Botany]

10. Or that God buried magic golden tablets on some random hill in upstate NY and had an angel named ...

... Moroni tell a young Joseph Smith about them so he could find them but Moroni told
Smith he could never show those tablets to anybody. Or that Jesus stopped by central
America to help the Mayan people build their pyramids.




Although now the Church elders have told their people to get the vaccine now and that goes against
the QAnon crap.

[Sur Zobra]

84. Hahahaha

Those “Mayans” look like white people

[TheRealNorth]

21. I always thought of Mormonism as a modern example of a cult....

That gains enough followers and clout to become recognized as a religion.

[lagomorph777]

69. About the same level of silly myths as any organized religion.

I don't really see why it's any different. More recent, sure. Otherwise, same old scam.

[FreeState]

77. Its not the beliefs its the way the members are kept

Look up the BITE model:

https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/

[Celerity]

53. The Extended Banned Mormon Cartoon illustrating Mormon Beliefs.

[enki23]

2. It's about a quarter of white evangelicals, so it fits the pattern

.

[Ocelot II]

3. Mormon cosmology is so bizarre in the first place

that the Q conspiracies probably don't seem particularly weird to them. Low-hanging fruit, I'd say.

[Hekate]

60. No more bizarre than a lot of other mythologies

[bluewater]

66. True.

[WA-03 Democrat]

4. Seems on to be on par with the rest of population

Of this nation’s dumb asses. 25-20% have no immunity to bullshit. Evangelicals, going to say 30%+ in the Q camp.

[Binkie The Clown]

6. I was once a Mormon for about a month, and that does not surprise me.

Looking for answers in my misguided youth I tried on a lot of different answers. The Mormon adventure was about the shortest lived when I learn all the crazy shit they believe.

[jimfields33]

7. That's interesting. Can you provide the link?

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. I can't do links on my phone but Raw Story has an

article this morning.

Some people here don't like Raw Story but I have always found them to be reliable.

[jimfields33]

15. Thank you. I'll see if I can link it

I seriously think it’s an interesting story due to Romney. I’d love to hear his take on that.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. I wonder about Romney. He has to be kind of

caught between two worlds. I think he was a Bishop.

[jimfields33]

20. Yeah. That story is frightening to be honest.

I found the link and all I can say is, “wow!”

[FreeState]

32. Mormon Bishops is misleading

A Mormon bishop is basically a pastor for 4-5 years (part time volunteer position).

[leftyladyfrommo]

34. It's not misleading if you know Mormons.

The Bishop runs the Ward. And they don't get paid in salaries but they are esteemed in their social circles. Bishops have a lot of power.

[FreeState]

35. My Dads a Bishop

He has very little power - the stake has a bit more than him but the real power is from the 70s on up.

[leftyladyfrommo]

38. And maybe it's changed over time.

The Bishops when I was there ruled the roost.

[jmowreader]

75. He was, but it's kind of complicated

In the LDS religion, every man is a priest.

The lowest level LDS church, unless you live in a town with 50 Mormons in it, is the ward. The leader of a ward is a bishop. It’s an unpaid position with two requirements: be married and hold the Melchizedek Priesthood…which all good Mormon men hold. Many wards change their bishops every two years, just to shake things up a bit.

Above that is Stake President. It’s also unpaid and you had to have been a bishop to get the job. In my city, the LDS church is a Stake Center and all the wards in the area worship together.

So this big thing about Romney holding a “very important position” in the church because he was a bishop? No. Bishop in that religion is one step above churchgoer.

[FreeState]

78. Bishops are changed every 4-5 years typically

Not two. A stake President can be there up to 9 years. But agree Romney is no bigwig and never has been in the church.

Bishops typically serve for about five years. Bishops report to stake presidents, and these local leaders have a significant amount of local autonomy to make decisions regarding the members in their wards and stakes.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/bishop

A stake president is assisted by two counselors and a group of 12 men called a high council. These leaders have a significant amount of local autonomy to make decisions regarding the members in their stake. A stake president typically serves for about nine years.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/stake-president

[tblue37]

45. I use Raw Story & Mediaite because they do good summaries of videos. As a deafie,

I need that since many videos don't have closed captioning.

[leftyladyfrommo]

47. I check Raw Story all rhe time. I don't always agree but

that's ok.

[RockRaven]

8. If you train people from birth to act like credulous morons, they will act like credulous morons.

Especially noxious aspects of that indoctrination include:
-training people to accept and act upon secret info released to/by an authority figure
-training people to trust their intuition/feelings instead of the evidence staring them in the face
-training people to believe the world is full of mysterious malicious entities trying to trick them into rejecting "the truth" that only their group knows/believes

[leftyladyfrommo]

9. The Bundys are Mormon. They are way out there.

[hurple]

12. SHOCKING

That it's only 21% really.

[2naSalit]

13. Raise your hand if you're surprised.

I lived in a mormon city in Idaho for over a decade, more per capita in Idaho than in Utah btw, the state is totally owned and operated by the church and so are the universities.

Their belief system includes money equating with holiness, fun fact.

But they are totally conditioned from early age to only believe what the church tells them and does as the church directs them.

I think of it as a criminal enterprise.

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. A lot of the people I knew kind of led 2 lives.

The surface one was all good and faithful Mormon.

But under the sink they had coffee pots.

[2naSalit]

25. Those are

on the brink of being jack-mormons! One of my profs, with whom I am still friends, was wholly invested in the cult, until he went to grad school and came back with enlightened views. Shortly after returning from getting his PhD, he told the wife and kids they could have everything, the house, etc. and set out to live as an apostate. He's been very happy ever since.

I know some folks who are good with the church and are very nice to nonmembers too. But that whole belief system should be held as a shining example of the reason religions are not a good thing.

[leftyladyfrommo]

27. I have a friend who is a really well respected archeologist

who was excommunicated. I don't think he cared.

But it is difficult for a lot of people because they get shunned by family and old friends.

And in Salt Lake all of the social life was in the Wards. I ran into that. It was difficult. People were not mean to me and I was never bullied but I just ceased to exist in their reality.

[2naSalit]

26. They never cease to...

Show me a new low. They have an influence up here in turning christo-fascist Montana too.

[2Gingersnaps]

17. Cult conditioned from the get go.

[leftyladyfrommo]

23. That seems to be the case in a lot of conservative

religions. Look at Old Order Amish and Hasdic and Orthodox Jews. And even Catholicism and the Evangelicals.

I think it's a lot better than it once was. People used to get burned at the stake if they espoused the wrong thing.
Now they just get excommunicated and shunned.

[jimfields33]

18. Here's the link. Rather scary!!!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rawstory.com/amp/qanon-mormons-2655204114

[DeeNice]

22. because one cult isn't enough... n/t

[underpants]

28. Q specifically requires a wanting to belong and spare time

People indoctrinate themselves

[leftyladyfrommo]

33. How do they teach themselves? YouTube? Friends?

Do they have their own little groups rhat meet once a week?

[underpants]

41. They basically do it on their own.

They let themselves get sucked into the nonsense.

[bluewater]

29. I am shocked at some of the bigoted statements made about Mormons in this thread.

And, no, I am not a Mormon.

[leftyladyfrommo]

31. I lived there for a long time and I really like a lot

of Mormons but I just stated what I learned while I was there. It's a different world.

[Hekate]

59. So am I. Anti-Mormon bigotry is broadly acceptable here for some reason...

Like you, I am not a Mormon. I disagree with a lot of their beliefs and a lot of their culture, but as long as they break no secular laws, that’s fine.

“Magic underwear” seems to be a fixation for mockery, yet many if not most very religious sects set themselves apart by their clothing.

Last time I was in the airport at Salt Lake City I saw a pair of Buddhist monks in saffron robes walk by — Tibetan branch, if I’m not mistaken. Roman Catholic nuns, monks, and priests — Buddhist nuns, monks, and priests — the Amish — Orthodox Jewish men with their tzitzit and payas — Muslim women in hijab —

What kind of frontier outpost do you have to live in that you’d miss seeing any of these folk walking by? And what kind of boor would you be to mock them for their garb? Yet the thought of “magic underwear” which cannot even be seen, just sets people off.

[bluewater]

65. I am honestly astounded at a good third of the responses.

There's criticizing a belief system and it's actions and then there is broad brushed bigotry back only by anecdotal stories.
I am also distressed that the OP didn't even start off by providing a link to a reputable source.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Hekate]

70. See you around

I generally speak up if I see one of these threads going on. I understand the outrage at betrayals of one kind and another, but honesty demands we be specific about the targets of our ire and the reasons for our outrage. Bigotry at DU is not only a violation of the TOS, but also is, or should be, beneath us.

[Hamlette]

67. I'm a life long resident of Salt Lake City. Mormons are no different

than other religious people. Magic Underwear is no more odd than believing a wafer turns into the flesh of Jesus the second it hits your tongue.

The church has been good on the pandemic advocating for vaccinations and masks. But we have a low vaccination rate in the state so many Mormons are not following the advice.

[FreeState]

79. I dont look an garments as topics religious clothing

and I dont think its bigoted to talk about them. The Church teaches they are magical and will protect you. This is not garb - its an actual physical and spiritual protector based on worthiness. So many stories in church people not burning where the garments are etc. I do not believe Monks, Nuns etc. have any similar teachings.

I say this as someone who has taken out his endowments and worn garments.

[Act_of_Reparation]

30. 100% of Mormons believe...

...an invisible sky wizard took the form of a human carpenter to save mankind from a bizarre curse for which said sky wizard was himself responsible, and instead got himself nailed to a piece of wood and for all intents and purposes died. Then, the carpenter came back and partied with his friends for forty days before fucking off the United States to chill with the indigenous peoples thereof. But they didn't like the cut of his jib so he gave them dark skin and then ascended back to his invisible castle up in the sky. He's gonna come back one day and make his home in Jefferson County, Missouri. Because. Well. Reasons.

Face it guys, Q isn't even close to the craziest shit some people believe.

[leftyladyfrommo]

37. Biblical scholars are usually not religious.

But their studies have taught us so much about the people and the times they are studying that it's incredible and extremely worthwhile.

I have never heard one of them make fun of religion. Mainly they are fascinated by it. One scholar that died just a few years ago spoke or read 11 languages.
Those studies give us incredible insight into the people, their social systems, their legal systems., what their day to day lives were like and their history.

As long as there have been people there have been religions. Religion helps people survive.

[Act_of_Reparation]

39. Cool story.

[hatrack]

36. One good cult deserves another . . . .

[leftyladyfrommo]

42. When I was there we had to dodge the Hare Krishnas

Last edited Fri Oct 1, 2021, 02:47 PM - Edit history (1)

at the airport.

Their hairdos looked silly at the time. Now I see man buns everywhere.

[hatrack]

54. Better man buns than the Joe Rogan Steroids & Goatee Road Rage look . . . .

[leftyladyfrommo]

56. I eat breakfast at Perkins. There was a young man there

that had all his hair on top french braided back into a spikey green man bun. All the hair on the back of his head was shaved.

Is there some kind of message he was attempting to send out to society at large? Am I missing something important?

[hatrack]

63. I think I may have deciphered his message . . . .

Look at me!

Look At Me!!!!

LOOK AT MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

[Johnny2X2X]

40. Mormon's patriotism was a given until this

This is sad, Mormonism have served in US intelligence roles for decades and they were known for their patriotism never being in question. To have 1 in 5 turn against their country like this is sad.

[Ocelot II]

43. So it appears that the Q-Mormons are actually apostate Mormons led by a guy

with the improbable name of Denver Snuffer. If it was possible to come up with weirder beliefs than regular Mormons this bunch has managed:

"Doctrine of Christ supporters think the COVID-19 virus and the vaccines to combat it are part of the "Arch Tyrant" plan to depopulate 90% of the earth, with the United Nations being integral to carrying out this mission, "with others citing the Illuminati, Masons, Jesuits, and other entities historically linked to end times apocalypticism. The conspiracies that found their place in American homes and internet forums became doctrine."

[leftyladyfrommo]

44. My dad was a mason. It was a secret society

but I don't think they were plotting to kill anyone or destroy the country. They did, however, have really neat uniforms. And great potluck diners.

[Ocelot II]

48. Masons aren't Mormons.

Nowadays they're just a bunch of old guys who hang out together and have secret rituals and meetings like little boys in treehouses. I think my grandfather belonged at some point.

[leftyladyfrommo]

49. No but he mentioned them as one of the groups

Last edited Fri Oct 1, 2021, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

the Q people listed as helping them reach their goals.

If they are depending on the Masons they are in trouble. They Kights Templars do like to pull their swords out and form arches with them.

My dad was really high up in the Knights Templars. He belonged to the Red Cross of the Constantine. Maybe it was the Rosy Cross. I am not sure.

My brother and I used to have sword fights with his swords when my parents were gone.

[FreeState]

80. 20% of the church do not follow Denver Snuffer

Way way less. Lots of LDS members that are not apostates believe in Q.

[Bettie]

46. Some may be angry at me saying this

but I'm going to say it anyway.

Organized religion in general teaches that critical thinking is not necessary or desirable. In right wing religious groups it is drummed out of people at a young age; no questioning anything. Ever.

You are supposed to believe in a god that you can't see, nor is there any evidence of its existence, but you are supposed to have faith that it is there. And then, when bad things happen, you're supposed to figure out why your god didn't help you, because it can't possibly be that there is no one there.

My point is that most Q-anoners are religious, because they are already primed for believing in such things.

[Ocelot II]

50. Q-anoners are not necessarily religious, although some are.

It seems to be just as much a substitute for religion as an adjunct to it.

Why are some people attracted to the QAnon movement?
A common misconception is that QAnon is purely a political movement. But it functions, for people who believe in it, as both a social community and a source of entertainment.

Some people have compared QAnon to a massive multiplayer online game, because of the way it invites participants to cocreate a kind of shared reality filled with recurring characters, shifting story lines and intricate puzzle-solving quests. QAnon has also been compared to a church, in that it provides its followers with a social support structure as well as an organizing narrative for their everyday lives.

Adrian Hon, a game designer who has written about QAnon’s similarity to alternate-reality games, says that believers “open a fascinating fantasy world of secret wars and cabals and Hillary Clinton controlling things, and it offers convenient explanations for things that feel inexplicable or wrong about the world.”

and

It’s a more diverse group than you might imagine. The earliest adherents were mainly far-right Trump supporters, but in 2020, the movement expanded its reach to include health-conscious yoga moms, anti-lockdown libertarians and evangelical Christians. Unlike the stereotypes of extremist movements, QAnon doesn’t appear to be primarily dominated by young men, or people experiencing economic pain. There are Harvard graduates and Wall Street executives who believe in it, as well as people with less elite pedigrees.

https://www.nytimes.com/article/what-is-qanon.html

[leftyladyfrommo]

52. That's interesting. I don't know anything about them. nt

[Act_of_Reparation]

86. "health-concious yoga moms, anti-lockdown libertarians and evangelical Christians"...

... share a rather glaring commonality: they all believe in horseshit.

[LAS14]

68. "Organized religion in general teaches that critical thinking is not necessary or desirable."

This is patently untrue. Get your facts before speaking.

[Bettie]

73. What I learned growing up in an evangelical church:

Do not question those in charge, ever.

Do not ask WHY you are to believe things, just believe them, because "faith".

Never, ever question whether any of it is real or correct or suggest that the holy book was written by men, not god.

So, no, critical thinking is not suggested if one can't question anything.

Again, I said it would make the religious people angry. I wasn't wrong there.

[LAS14]

81. Well, "an evangelical church" does not represent "organized religion." nt

[Bettie]

82. So, how do you know that what they are telling you is literally true?

Seriously, do you have a logical reason to believe that all the bells and whistles of a church service are truth, that the people in your sect are better, more moral than everyone else by virtue of their vision of a being that can't be seen, felt, or otherwise experienced?

But, if it brings you comfort, then go for it.

I've been hurt too much by religious people in my lifetime to believe that they are inherently better due to attendance at a service.

[LAS14]

83. There's faith and there's critical thinking. One doesn't cancel out the other.

No time or space or will here to explain this, but I have faith about things unseen, and I'm one of the most critical thinkers around about the rest of it. I'm sorry your education didn't expose you to the critical thinking present in mainline protestant demoninations, and even in the parts of the Catholic church like the Jesuits.

[lindysalsagal]

85. Many religious congregations do prohibit critical thinking and cause trauma.

You might find exceptions, but many absolutely do. The first conference on religious trauma was just a few months ago:

https://www.gcrr.org/religioustraumaconference /v1/

Here is the wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_trauma_syndrome

Here is the leading expert: Marlene Winnell: http://marlenewinell.net/

[LAS14]

87. That's true. Very different from saying "organized religion" does this. nt

[sarcasmo]

51. Being in two cults must be rough.

[dawg]

55. Well, I'm a Baptist and ...

I bet we don't come out any better.

[leftyladyfrommo]

57. A lot of the Bible Believing Baptists in KCMO are

pretty strange. I don't know about the more liberal churches. I don't know if there are any more liberal churches.

[Ocelot II]

58. There are many liberal churches.

Unitarians, Episcopalians, Lutherans (ELCA), and some Methodists, to name a few, tend to be quite liberal, inclusive, and not at all fanatical.

[leftyladyfrommo]

61. I meant more liberal Baptist churches.

I know there are Southern Baptists and they are pretty conservative. I don't know if any Baptists are really very liberal

[Ocelot II]

62. I couldn't say. I know there are a lot Baptist spin-offs that aren't part of the SBs,

but I don't know if any of them are more liberal or less.

[Hekate]

64. Well spotted

I try to dredge up this list (and more) on those nights when DU gets a little crazy about “all Christian churches” and “all Christians” being one thing or another — usually a broad brush attack regarding abortion and/or LGBTQ rights.

It’s been awhile since I sojourned through, but no — they are not all the same, not by a long shot.

[budkin]

71. Most evangelicals seem to be in it as well

Not surprising considering the shit they believe.

[LeftInTX]

72. Context...

Hispanic Protestants (26%), white evangelical Protestants (25%), and other Protestants of color (24%) are more likely than other religious groups to agree that the government, media, and financial worlds in the U.S. are controlled by a group of Satan-worshipping pedophiles who run a global child sex trafficking operation.[1] Less than one in five Mormon (18%), Hispanic Catholic (16%), Black Protestant (15%), other Christian (14%), non-Christian religious (13%), white Catholic (11%), religiously unaffiliated (11%), white mainline Protestant (10%), and Jewish Americans (8%) agree with this statement.[2]

Approximately one in four or more Hispanic Protestants (29%), Hispanic Catholics (27%), white evangelical Protestants (26%), Black Protestants (25%), other Protestants of color (24%), and other Christians (24%) agree that there is a storm coming that will sweep away the elites in power. Fewer Mormons (22%), white Catholics (19%), white mainline Protestants (18%), and members of other non-Christian religions (17%) agree. Religiously unaffiliated (12%) and Jewish Americans (6%) are the least likely to agree with this statement.

With the exceptions of white evangelical Protestants (24%) and Mormons (24%), less than one in five members of all other religious groups agree with this idea, including white mainline Protestants (18%), other Protestants of color (17%), Hispanic Catholics (17%), white Catholics (16%), other Christians (15%), Black Protestants (12%), Hispanic Protestants (12%), religiously unaffiliated Americans (12%), and members of other non-Christian religions (11%). Jewish Americans (6%) are the least likely to agree that true American patriots may have to resort to violence. https://www.prri.org/research/qanon-conspiracy-american-politics-report/

In a nutshell: Mormons are no worse than white evangelicals..

The Rawstory article was based on an article from Religious Dispatch which was based on the PRRI research.
Here is the Religion Dispatch article, which goes above my head: https://religiondispatches.org/a-new-mormon-religion-has-taken-qanon-conspiracies-and-canonized-them-as-doctrine/

Here is the Rawstory article: https://www.rawstory.com/qanon-mormons/

It doesn't say that 21% of Mormons are in Q anon, it's based on beliefs and activity, which is a big difference.

[url=https://postimages.org/][img][/img][/url]

I think Mormons are more likely to be aligned with Oath Keepers than Q-Anon...just my opinion..Even if someone is not in Oath Keepers, there are many who are sympathetic to them. (Rugged, go it alone..government is bad)

[bluewater]

74. So, based on the source data, the OP is unfairly singling out Mormons for ridicule?

We see that LDS members, aka Mormons, are less into QAnon beliefs than White Evangelical Protestants and not that different than the All Americans category.

So, why are Mormons being singled out for ridicule?

[Hekate]

76. TYVM for context