General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRalph Nader, Jill Stein, Kristen Sinema
Can we all agree now that the Green Party has been a terrible, terrible idea?
Walleye
(31,135 posts)I really, really hated Ralph Nader
electric_blue68
(14,998 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,802 posts)PlanetBev
(4,104 posts)The think our pain is funny.
The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)And acted as the midwives for the Bush Era. They never blinked when it came to assisting Trump.
Every Green, every Hillary bashing DSA, every tool of the racist populist left and all their friends...
None of 'em will ever deserve to even smell the shit of an honest Democrat.
I can not over state my hatred of these "progressives"
Budi
(15,325 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 7, 2021, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)
And a big FkU to Mark Zuckerburg & his magic algorithum that made propaganda messaging, overnight trending, fake political celebrities out of nobodies with nothing to offer society nor the will to actually do so.
"Money & Media" brought us where we are today, & their agents of intentional chaos.
Thank you for your words of truth, the truth that Zuckerburg's FB algorithum buried under the propaganda that collapsed our country.
betsuni
(25,764 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,802 posts)I will never forgive nader Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html
Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Naders campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the APs Laura Meckler headlined GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads. She opened: Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of, Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: Whats Al Gores real record? Nader says: Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken. Mecklers report continued: A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Naders speeches. Bushs people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....
On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independents Bid a Financial Lift, and reported that the Nader campaign has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party, according to an analysis of federal records. Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egans other friends. Mr. Egans wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year. Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under Swift Boat Veterans for Nader, that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerrys Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Naders signatures in their state (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing states 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bushs big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.
It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bushs real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. Thats why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.
The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)He was (IMHO) a GOP pry bar they used for stripping support from the Democratic party.
I also believe he knew and approved of what was happening - to paraphrase Paul Simon - "Still angry after all these years"
Progressive Jones
(6,011 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... but for obvious reasons, I'll just move on. Instead, I'll let you know that you've done an outstanding job at concisely summarizing how I feel.
Nixie
(17,009 posts)dishonest about Democrats if they dont know Gores history and/or fail to mention him. They are the same people who need to explain to young voters how they got stuck with a 6-3 Supreme Court.
sheshe2
(84,005 posts)Cha
(297,935 posts)so eloquently blunt.
JanMichael
(24,898 posts)The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)If that hurts you, I'm sorry, but you need that hurt
JanMichael
(24,898 posts)The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)What ever. The "Left's" epic struggle against racism is why they are so universally adored by the generations of Americans who have actually suffered under racist policies.
If you...
Ya know what, fuck it.
Just block me cousin, because I think your point of view is un-assailable. So do you.
My voice has never removed graffiti from a brick wall and I expect it will never make you reconsider a single thing.
Budi
(15,325 posts)The Democratic Middle.
That demographic has always known who has their back.
That's why the 2020 Primary was over early.
The Middle.
George II
(67,782 posts)Budi
(15,325 posts)#BothHRC&Biden&The Democratic Middle Won TheSouth.. & OBAMA, & Carter, & Clinton & every middle Democrat before them.
They didn't win it by being racist. 🙄
betsuni
(25,764 posts)The Populist Left, not the Left.
The ones who believe in economic class revolution, that the establishment uses gender or race identity to trick people into voting for Democrats (the establishment = the Democratic Party, called "corporate Dems" because "beholden"/corrupt). Black voters have been called uninformed, accused of voting against their own interests, having Stockholm syndrome (infamous DU post that was up for a few months). Democrats must be lectured about running only on identity and not economic policy: "It's not good enough for someone to say, 'I'm a woman! Vote for me!'"
They also believe Republican voters are voting against their own interests because of "economic anxiety" (not being uninformed, stupid, or brainwashed) and Democrats ignoring the white working class, paying too much attention to "identity politics." When the revolution comes, Republicans will join the 99% against the 1%. Republican voters think Democrats give all the attention and free stuff to minorities/immigrants ("Them" ) in exchange for votes and consider the 1% one of "Us."
Here's an example of the populist Left:
"What you got is an African-American president, and the African American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him as president. And that's kind of natural. You've got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you've got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help. But that's not important. You should not be basing your politics on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing? In the last election, in state after state, you had an abysmally low vote for the Democrats among white, working class people. And I think the reason for that is that the Democrats have not made it clear that they are prepared to stand with the working class people of this country, take on the big money interests."
The Polack MSgt
(13,200 posts)More patience and better typing/editing skills than I can muster.
Well put
JustAnotherGen
(32,002 posts)Yep - pretty much sums it up.
Beartracks
(12,827 posts)The Wizard
(12,554 posts)Where's Ann Coulter when you need her?
JI7
(89,283 posts)betsuni
(25,764 posts)Then you read the ingredients on the back of the package.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)NBachers
(17,170 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(145,802 posts)That means no Citizens United or Shelby County v. Holder.
brush
(53,968 posts)candidates so republicans can win.
cstanleytech
(26,347 posts)All it really did is weaken the Democratic party as it split the vote.
a kennedy
(29,753 posts)DFW
(54,480 posts)Here in Germany, the Green movement started out as a purely environmental pacifist movement. It was a time when Germany was finally starting to feel a stirring of a true foreign policy identity, and not one always following the USA, who had evolved into the role of passive, benevolent, but still vigilant victor after World War II. One of the founders was, herself, half-American.
The Soviet Union quickly saw an opportunity for penetration, and successfully did so, but never got to complete their task. When the Soviet Union and their East German lapdog regime collapsed, their meddling came to light, and their loyalists within the Greens either disappeared or joined die Linken, or the (far) Leftists). What was left was a wing of the Greens called the Realos, or the realists. Instead of rigid ideology, they matured, gained some pragmatism, and in the past 30 years have even posted a Foreign Minister and a State Governor in the important economic powerhouse of Baden-Württemberg. With about 14% in the recent election, and the poor showing by the two major partiesneither even got close to 30%!!they are a cinch to be included in the new government, too.
Of course, were he German, Al Gore might have been a Green, himself. The Social Democrats here never had anyone close. They remain a party of mostly life-long bureaucrats whose knowledge of anything in the real world comes from reading statistics or the internet, much like their center-right counterparts in Merkels party, the CDU. If the major parties dont wise up, and the Greens do (they are not complacency-immune), they could easily find themselves the top vote-getters here within a generation.
Our Al Gores still have a comfortable place within our Democratic Party, which is why Nader was suspect in the first place. No difference between Bush and Gore? Do we really come across as THAT stupid?
Withywindle
(9,988 posts)Right now. It is the most imminent threat to our whole planet. I want a party I can vote for (with a chance of winning) that will make that priority number one. It is my main issue.
If Al Gore had taken office 20 years ago, we'd be way ahead of where we are now OBVIOUSLY.
I'm disappointed that Biden isn't taking any real action to shut down oil and coal - but then I didn't really think that he would. I voted for him because I knew he would at least do more damage control than Trump would, and he has. My expectations are unfortunately low.
Al Gore was VERY different from Bush. If he'd been elected, we'd be in a very different world now. I honestly do believe the original towers of the World Trade Center would still be there (because he wouldn't have ignored that urgent memo in August), so the Afghanistan and Iraq wars might not have happened. Imagine what we could have achieved if we hadn't been forced to funnel money into Cheney's mercenary companies for all that time.
DFW
(54,480 posts)Ive never asked him directly, because whenever I run into him, Im always afraid Ill be so angry with his answer that Ill do something that might curtail my liberty for a few years.
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,498 posts)got promptly thrown out on their arse for being jerks.
I know the fantastic wit of DUers can come up with some great responses far better than I.
KY..........
Withywindle
(9,988 posts)She did it as a "Democrat."
I feel these are three different people with three different motives. Ralph Nader was sincere about Green policy principles (which I totally liked and agreed with in 2000. I knew he couldn't win though, so I voted for Gore)
Jill Stein is an anti-vaxx nut job who was never a serious candidate.
Sinema was Green in her youth, and now she's just a sellout.
JHB
(37,163 posts)He first ran in 1996. Then he dropped off the map for four years. Whatever he was doing, it wasn't sincerely organizing a political party or forming a liberal-left voting block.
Without action it's just words.
Withywindle
(9,988 posts)And my opinion of him certainly did take a plunge as he kept pushing it. He had just had more time to build up residual goodwill prior to that.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)I support her now as she is a Democrat and a member of our Party. But I do believe she will have great difficulty winning her reelection and think we should have a primary. It is my hope that Arizona will find a great candidate who can win.
This should be a warning to us...the next candidate that is a 'former' green should be looked at very carefully before he/she is chosen to run for an office during a primary.
sheshe2
(84,005 posts)She has stated she is not a Democrat and ran on our ticket in Ohio and lost. Perhaps not Green, yet campaigned for Stein a few blocks down from the DNC convention.
Who is Jill Stein? Nina Turner Attacked for Historic Support of Green Party Candidate
https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-nina-turner-historic-support-green-party-candidate-1615653
I am embaressed that one of my Senators endorsed her.
MichMan
(12,001 posts)Hope they feel proud that they enabled her antics
budkin
(6,725 posts)But we don't.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Sinema did and is a Democrat and ran with their blessing. Sinema is a moderate Democrat just as Joe Manchin and others are moderate Democrats.
Demsrule86
(68,768 posts)whereas that is not possible with Manchin.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Response to greenman3610 (Original post)
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