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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFuck! Enough Already! Colin Powell is why America is where it is!
Powell didnt make a mistake.
He knew he was feeding the American people bullshit to get support to go to war in Iraq.
It was planned and premeditated.
Thousands of Americans killed and upwards of a million Iraqis.
He is no fucking hero. He is a traitor.
And his normalization of lying to the American people.. you know what that got us?!? Fucking Trump.
So please fuck off with the niceties and lets be honest for one damn minute. Powell is a disgrace that lead to even bigger disgraces that put yet more shame on this country.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,852 posts)ret5hd
(20,491 posts)BigmanPigman
(51,589 posts)Wow... but not surprised.
ret5hd
(20,491 posts)He was not in the msssacre itself.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)his only requirement for the part was the ability to appear truthful. I don't blame him for the war, for Trump, or for the shame on this country. I blame him for providing cover for some really effed up shit.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)For authorization for war in Iraq.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)I'm sure they all have their reasons for what they did, but it was not for the reasons stated. Although his job was to provide cover, so for those Democrats, I guess he did just that.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)those that did had access to information. Hell, we had access to information that put into question everything coming out of the Bush Administration. Hold him accountable for the part he played, but hold others accountable for the part they played as well.
Mysterian
(4,587 posts)and did not vote for the war authorization. Still shaking my head about those who did.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Its why so many here defend Powell.
The fact is Powell knew Joe Wilson and Valery Plame were telling the truth.
wnylib
(21,438 posts)of the Iraq invasion and certainly not the source of Republican lies. His guilt was in going along with it. I remember saying at the time that he should have resigned rather than compromise his integrity. But even if he had, Bu$h & Co. would have found someone else to speak for them in carrying out their war plans.
.
llashram
(6,265 posts)he, bush and darth...
Escurumbele
(3,389 posts)I wrote to a magazine that had Powell on the cover, and I told him how I felt, how disgraceful it was for a magazine to try to whitewash the deeds of a man who pushed the Iraq invasion with his lies, and the pity that a man who had been is such high regard, not only in the USA but the World, had thrown his reputation, his principles and morals for an invasion that did only damage and zero good.
I have a feeling he did not go to his last minute of life feeling proud, he was never the same man after the UN fiasco.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)that Barney's best gal Thelma Lou died today at age 95.
CP can rot.
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)johnp3907
(3,730 posts)🤔
brooklynite
(94,517 posts)Should Barack Obama have rejected the endorsement of such a tainted individual?
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)He also did not make a mistake.
And last but not least, he should not be celebrated as the media is doing, like hes a great American hero or saint.
brooklynite
(94,517 posts)"Colin Powell was a good man," Biden said in a statement. "He will be remembered as one of our great Americans."
"Colin embodied the highest ideals of both warrior and diplomat. He was committed to our nation's strength and security above all. Having fought in wars, he understood better than anyone that military might alone was not enough to maintain our peace and prosperity," Biden said.
The President continued: "From his front-seat view of history, advising presidents and shaping our nation's policies, Colin led with his personal commitment to the democratic values that make our country strong. Time and again, he put country before self, before party, before all else -- in uniform and out -- and it earned him the universal respect of the American people."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/18/politics/biden-colin-powell-statement/index.html
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)brooklynite
(94,517 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)He excused his betrayal, that is all the penance he gave.
Response to brooklynite (Reply #19)
Salviati This message was self-deleted by its author.
progressoid
(49,988 posts)Everybody who voted and/or supported that war has blood on their hands. They have to deal with those demons.
My forgiveness won't matter.
El Supremo
(20,365 posts)I just changed my avatar because of this (was Biden).
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Political animals gonna be political.
Biden can say what he wants to try to broach the middle.
That doesnt change my perspective.
Powell is a Republican enabler. He joined the party and lied for them.
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)Here's a quote that has stuck with me - because it was in one of my dad's last letters to me -
However chilling this destruction of homes and crops reads in cold print today, as a young officer, I had been conditioned to believe in the wisdom of my superiors, and to obey. I had no qualms about what we were doing. It all made sense in those days. Colin Powell 1995.
I hold nothing against him. He was my dad's era of black Army Officers - and they were focused on one thing - winning at all costs. Regardless of who got in their way - they were trained to survive enemies. Be it at home where they got ZERO respect - or abroad.
He was also clear - Iraq - and his actions were a blot on his record. He did bad, he knew it, he owned it.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)And I respect it. He owned the mistake of the UN speech.
He will always be the first black Chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff of the US Army and the first black Secretary of State.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)They put the plans on war in Iraq and Afghanistan into motion.
Was Powell involved? Hell, yeah. But not to the level of the two butchers mentioned above.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Including Bidens vote.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)I dont give Powell a pass, but he was culpable as more of an accessory to the war crimes of Darth and Shrub.
Darth and Shrub should have been sent to the ICC in The Hague for war crimes.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Powell knew exactly what he was doing
roamer65
(36,745 posts)But the ultimate decision to start the wars was Shrubs and that fucker still walks around as free man. Ditto for Darth.
They all should have been tried for war crimes, IMO.
joetheman
(1,450 posts)He never really wanted to invade Iraq and advised Bush against it. He should have resigned in protest instead of playing the good soldier boy. Just think, had he resigned in protest he may well have been the first black President.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)He knew the intel was wrong. Anyone who was paying attention at the time knew. Remember Valery Plame and Joe Wilson? They told everyone it wasnt true.
I also see you are relatively new to DU. Were you even alive when this shit was happening? Many here lived through it. We remember.
Haggard Celine
(16,844 posts)Pretty much everybody with an internet connection back then was aware that the "intelligence" was bullshit and it was a trumped-up war. If little old me knew it and most of the rest of the internet knew it, why didn't Powell and most of Congress know? And then, when the truth could no longer be denied, we heard that evil asshole Rumsfeld say that "absence of evidence isn't evidence of abscence."
Thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of Iraqis died for profit, and the guilty parties have never even come close to being punished. Well, maybe now Rumsfeld and Powell are burning in Hell. That might be a little bit of justice.
elleng
(130,888 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,284 posts)to prove they are not bigots. And they won't fool me.
JohnSJ
(92,187 posts)ZZenith
(4,121 posts)Exactly right on all counts.
John Ludi
(589 posts)I'M not eulogizing him. The only reason he looks good now is that almost everyone who has come after him has been BLATANTLY horrible.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)If we start allowing history to be re-written to turn these fucks into heroes we are perpetuating a future of it. Trump is a prime example of allowing this shit to go unpunished.
John Ludi
(589 posts)I remember when Nixon died how many people lined up to pay their respects to THAT amoral dirtbag...it irked me then, and it irks me now.
IbogaProject
(2,811 posts)He helped cover up the mai lai massacre too.
JohnSJ
(92,187 posts)These are the people who actually knew about it and covered it up:
Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker commander of the Task Force BARKER, a battalion-sized unit, assembled to attack the 48th Battalion of the Viet Cong supposedly based in and around My Lai. He allegedly ordered the destruction of the village and supervised the artillery barrage and combat assault from his helicopter. Reported the operation as a success; was killed in Vietnam on June 13, 1968, in a mid-air collision before the investigation had begun.
Captain Kenneth W. Boatman - an artillery forward observer; was accused by the Army of failure to report possible misconduct, but charge was dropped.
Second Lieutenant Stephen Brooks the 2nd Platoon Leader, Charlie Company; turned a body count of 60 for the second platoon; later killed himself in Vietnam.
Major Charles C. Calhoun - operations officer of Task Force BARKER; charges against him of failure to report possible misconduct were dropped.
Second Lieutenant William L. Calley Jr. platoon leader, 1st Platoon, Charlie Company, First Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment, 11th Infantry Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division. Was charged in deliberate murder of 102 civilians, found guilty and sentenced to life. Was paroled in September 1974 by the Secretary of the Army Howard Callaway.
Lieutenant Colonel William D. Guinn Jr. - Deputy Province Senior Advisor/Senior Sector Advisor for Quangngai Province. Charges against him of dereliction of duty and false swearing brought by the Army were dropped.
Colonel Oran K. Henderson 11th Infantry Brigade commander, who ordered the attack and flew in a helicopter over Mỹ Lai during it. After Hugh Thompson immediately reported multiple killings of civilians, Henderson started the cover-up by dismissing allegation about the massacre and reporting to the superiors that indeed 20 people from My Lai died by accident. Was accused of alleged cover-up and false swearing by the Army; charges were dropped.
Major General Samuel W. Koster commander of the 23rd Infantry Division (United States) of the United States Army, known as AMERICAL Division, was not involved with the planning of the My Lai search-and-destroy mission. However, during the operation he flew over My Lai and monitored the radio communications. Afterward, Koster did not followed up with the 11th Brigade commander colonel Henderson on the initial investigation, and later was caught into cover-up. Was charged by the Army with failure to obey lawful regulations, dereliction of duty, and alleged cover-up; charges dropped. Later was demoted to Brigadier General and stripped of a Distinguished Service medal.
Captain Eugene M. Kotouc military intelligence officer assigned to Task Force BARKER; he partially provided information, on which the Mỹ Lai combat assault was approved; together with Medina and a South Vietnamese officer, he interrogated, tortured and allegedly executed VC and NVA suspects later that day. Was charged with maiming and assault, tried by the jury and acquitted.
Captain Dennis H. Johnson - 52d Military Intelligence Detachment, assigned to Task Force BARKER, was accused of failure to obey lawful regulations, however charges were later dropped.
Second Lieutenant Jeffrey U. Lacross - platoon leader, 3rd Platoon, Charlie Company; testified that his platoon did not meet any armed resistance in My Lai, and that his men did not kill anybody, however, since, in his words, both Calley and Brooks reported a body count of 60 for their platoons, he then submitted a body count of 6.
Major Robert W. McKnight - operations officer of the 11th Brigade; was accused of false swearing by the Army, but charges were subsequently dropped.
Captain Ernest L. Medina commander of Company C, First' battalion, 20th Infantry; nicknamed Mad Dog by subordinates. He planned, ordered, and supervised the execution of the operation in Son My village. Was accused of failure to report a felony and of murder; went to trial and was acquitted.
Captain Earl Michaels - company commander during My Lai operation; he died in a helicopter crash three months later.
Brigadier General George H. Young Jr. - assistant division commander, 23rd Infantry Division; charged with alleged cover-up, failure to obey lawful regulations and dereliction of duty by the Army; charges were dismissed.
Major Frederic W. Watke - commander of Company B, 123rd Aviation Battalion, 23rd Infantry Division, providing helicopter support on March 16, 1968. Testified that he informed Colonel Henderson about killings of civilians in My Lai as reported by helicopter pilots. He was accused of failure to obey lawful regulations and dereliction of duty; charges were dropped.
Captain Thomas K. Willingham - Company B, Fourth Battalion, Third Infantry Division, assigned to Task Force BARKER; charged with making false official statements and failure to report a felony; charges were dropped.
Altogether, 14 officers directly and indirectly involved with the operation, including two generals, were investigated in connection with the My Lai massacre, except Lieutenant Colonel Frank A. Barker, Captain Earl Michaels and Lieutenant Stephen Brooks, who had died before the beginning of the investigation
https://my-lai-massacre.weebly.com/commanders.html
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)Covered it up.
johnthewoodworker
(694 posts)JohnSJ
(92,187 posts)on why America is where it is today. In fact, that element was instrumental at getting the bush administration elected which pushed the road to war, along with giving us the Supreme Court that we have today.
As for Powell being the only one to blame why we invaded Iraq based on a lie, there were a lot of willing participants in that LIE, including the MSM. Knight Ridder was one of the few that reported there were no WMDs, but the rest of the MSM choose to ignore that, and push the invasion narrative.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-reporting-team-that-g_n_91981
One group may have been able to stop it, and that was Congress, though I suspect the bush administration was so hell bent on invading Iraq, even that would not have stopped them.
The populous was itching to make someone "pay" for 9/11, and they were willing to accept any lies and reasons, even without veracity of the evidence
JustAnotherGen
(31,818 posts)bringthePaine
(1,728 posts)bluesbassman
(19,372 posts)He chose to go along with the Cheney/Bush scheme to get us into a war with Iraq. His "owning up to his mistake" was weak at best; he basically laid the blame on the Intelligence Community. He was no hero in Viet Nam, and he was no hero as SoS.
KS Toronado
(17,214 posts)Bush & Cheney using MSM already had 99% of Americans wanting revenge for 9-11
and most people were quite vocal about it. I made a lot of enemies saying no to war.
DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)I have no problem with him acknowledging that. RIP
ShazzieB
(16,386 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)There is no way he can say he was fooled into it because he knew Joe Wilson and Valery Plame were telling the truth.
calimary
(81,222 posts)Colin Powell was an enabler. Enabling all the wrong things. And leaving THAT as his "legacy."
OneBro
(1,159 posts)Powell and a whole BUNCH of people - including those too lazy to do their fucking jobs and question the mind-numbingly obvious bullsh*t that Powell was spreading far and wide - are all responsible for the tragedies that followed, and there has been no moment in American history that lying has not been normalized.
I was barely out of grad school when I watched Powell present drawings of train cars that were supposedly transporting WMDs in Iraq, and I remember thinking . . . drawings? . . . of trains? A hand drawn picture . . . of a fucking train? WTF?
Powell deserves plenty of scorn for whitewashing the massacre at My Lai, so he sure as hell is no hero, but to suggest that he alone was carrying the baton of lies that led to Iraq and Trump is, well, one heck of a tale.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Democrats to vote for war in Iraq, we would not have gone there.
This is a big reason Trump became President. Trump lied about not supporting the war in Iraq and he used that effectively against HRC in 2016 because she did.
Trump also learned from Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell/Rice that you can pretty much do what you want and get away with it when youre the President.
OneBro
(1,159 posts)Might very well have cost him a solid chance at the presidency.
crimycarny
(1,351 posts)Period. Dems didn't show up to vote in 2016. We own that.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)When this history was happening or you wouldnt be saying that.
Kid Berwyn
(14,897 posts)Thanks, Putin.
joetheman
(1,450 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)When we allow criminals in power to get away with egregious acts, we perpetuate more egregious acts from their successors.
Thats the point you obviously missed.
Kid Berwyn
(14,897 posts)By ERIC TUCKER
AP, April 16, 2021
WASHINGTON (AP) It was one of the more tantalizing, yet unresolved, questions of the investigation into possible connections between Russia and Donald Trumps 2016 presidential campaign: Why was a business associate of campaign chairman Paul Manafort given internal polling data and what did he do with it?
A Treasury Department statement Thursday offered a potentially significant clue, asserting that Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian and Ukrainian political consultant, had shared sensitive campaign and polling information with Russian intelligence services.
Kilimnik has long been alleged by U.S. officials to have ties to Russian intelligence. But the statement in a broader Treasury Department sanctions announcement was the first time the U.S. government had so directly drawn a connection from the Trump campaign to the Kremlins intelligence services. The revelation was all the more startling because it went beyond any allegation made in either special counsel Robert Muellers 2019 report or in an even more damning and detailed document released last year by the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Snip
Kilimnik was a key but mysterious figure in Muellers investigation into potential coordination between Russia and the 2016 Trump campaign. A business associate of Manaforts who worked closely with him, even managing his firms office in Kyiv, Kilimnik is mentioned by name 156 times in the Mueller report. He was also indicted alongside Manafort on witness tampering allegations, but has not appeared in the U.S. to face those charges. The FBI has issued a $250,000 award for information leading to his arrest.
A key episode examined by Mueller involved Manaforts decision to share campaign polling data with Kilimnik something prosecutors say Manafort lied about when questioned. Investigators scrutinized a series of secretive encounters between the men, including one in August 2016 at the Grand Havana Club in New York.
There, according to statements provided by Mueller, Manafort briefed Kilimnik on internal campaign data and messaging and they discussed battleground states.
Continues
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-paul-manafort-russia-campaigns-konstantin-kilimnik-d2fdefdb37077e28eba135e21fce6ebf
Trump cheating with Russian help in 2016 gave him an edge in Michigan by suppressing Clinton voters in Detroit.
crimycarny
(1,351 posts)It was the lowest Dem turnout in 20 years. Do you mean because those of us on DU were motivated to vote it negates what happened in the bigger picture?
By the way, when I say "we" I don't literally mean those of us at DU. I mean Dems in general.
TwilightZone
(25,469 posts)Asserting that it's proof of anything regarding turnout is misguided, at best.
Skittles
(153,153 posts)like he learned NOTHING from Vietnam
his actions were SICKENING
Escurumbele
(3,389 posts)"All we need is someone who can 'handle a pen'"...In other words, put an idiot on the presidency, all he needs to be able to do is handle a pen, and guess what? trump can handle a sharpie...
Its like saying, "put a monkey that can handle a pen in the sit.", and that is exactly what republicans did, they made sure they cheated to get a couple of idiots elected who can handle a pen.
Both Bush and trump are decoys, nothing else, its just that trump has no class, is highly ignorant but thinks he knows more than everyone. Bush was more subdued, he obeyed Chaney without asking questions.
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)Initech
(100,068 posts)I agree 100% - he was a big peddler of the bullshit that led to the endless war in Iraq.
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)Nixon gave us the EPA and Clean Water Act. And if it wasn't for Ted Kennedy, Nixon would have gotten us a form of universal health care.
Does that mean we should shit on Jefferson and Kennedy? Praise Nixon? Of course not. They are all complicated individuals who made some good and bad decisions. We all do this in life. They unfortunately had made a wrong decision that resulted in a terrible cost. I don't believe Powell had any particular malice and genuinely thought he was making the right decision against a butcher of human lives. And his two sons were showing to be worse.
Criticize their decisions and learn from them. But taking a dump on everything they did isn't productive. Life isn't absolute black and white.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)However, making Powell into an American hero is well beyond reason
reACTIONary
(5,770 posts)SunImp
(2,224 posts)Basic LA
(2,047 posts)I thought that in '93 when Clinton ordered gays be allowed in the military, Powel, as head of the Joint Chiefs (appointed by Clinton) refused. This led to the hearings that settled on the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" compromise. Maybe I'm mis-remembering.
DENVERPOPS
(8,817 posts)Same kind of stuff I said to my wife when she was sad about Reagan dying......
Ditto for HW Bush............who does everyone think was running things while Reagan was losing it mentally????????
marie999
(3,334 posts)We were going to attack Iraq no matter what. When the president wants a war we get one. Same with Vietnam. Eisenhower should have let them have free elections. JFK should have pulled our troops out as should have LBJ. 3 presidents who cost us over 58,000 Americans and over 3 million Vietnamese lost their lives, 1 million soldiers, and 2 million civilians. Where would our military-industrial complex be without wars?
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)As did many others. We were making progress convincing Democrats to not support it. After Joe Wilson wrote his Op-Ed saying the evidence was made up, Bush lied the 16 words at the SOTU address and that Wilson could personally could prove Bush was lying, there were going to be hearings on it with possible impeachment.
Then enter Colin Powell, who was trusted by many Democrats, who did his flim-flam show saying Iraq had mobile WMD factories and that was that.
Escurumbele
(3,389 posts)Thank you...You said it better than I did in four of five entries...
Yes, he is no hero, he know exactly what he was doing, I believe he paid dearly for that, every time I saw him he looed sad and dejected. As I said before, I hope he left documentation behind telling the truth, I am not going to hold my breath on that one, but my optimist soul hopes.
Once again, thank you for telling it like it is.
Kaleva
(36,295 posts)berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Im going to be here setting the record straight.
Kaleva
(36,295 posts)I very highly doubt you'll be able to convince Biden, the Clintons, Obama, Pelosi and many other Dem leaders to retract what they recently said about Powell.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)Politically, it would not serve them to bash Powell. I read Obamas statement. Its not exactly praise either, but you can read it how you want.
Biden and Clinton both bought Powells lie, hook line and sinker, so there is a matter of consistency for them.
Im not bound by their limitations. And I refuse to speak anything other than the Truth when it comes to what Powell has done to this country.
As for this reality you speak of, you see a need to put words in my mouth that arent there. I have not said any of those people should retract their statements. But please continue to make shit up.
Kaleva
(36,295 posts)If you cannot get the Party leaders to retract what they said about Powell and tell the truth?
Or are you just talking about DU and DUers specifically?
If it's the latter, then by all means continue to voice your opinion.
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)They are free to say what they want about the man. They have not contradicted the truth in their statements, as little as I appreciate what they say about Powell.
Kaleva
(36,295 posts)There is nothing what you said about Powell in VP Harris's statement below:
Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1450156764910039042%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Fnews%2Fvice-president-harris-remembers-colin-powell-it-was-never-about-him-it-was-about-the-country%2F
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)At this point, it is clear you are trolling. Good night.
Celerity
(43,333 posts)The Nuremberg Principles
In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace, in Principle VI, specifically Principle VI(a), submitted to the United Nations General Assembly, as:
Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under
Autumn
(45,065 posts)traitorsgalore
(1,396 posts)Well Colin Powell didn't stop Bush, he helped him spread propaganda on a worldwide scale and fully supported state-sponsored torture camps.
AwakeAtLast
(14,124 posts)TBI, PTSD - also known as the OIF Special!
If I must say some good about him, fine.
He's dead. That's good.
Martin68
(22,794 posts)have quit the GOP and become a Democrat. There was no other way to defeat Trump's fascist party.